Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Terrain / Theater editing

Moderators: Lone Wolf, Snake Man

Guest

Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

I have experimented little with the larger map terrain, the size being 128 x 128 segments.

Here is what I found out.

When creating the larger map with dem2lf.pl script you need to edit the line:
my($resolution) = 256/(2**$ofile);
to this:
my($resolution) = 128;

Then run the script with "./dem2lf.pl -2 mymap.bin largemap" as usually. I'd like to hear your comments, am I wrong here with this method?

Anyway now you have the 128 x 128 segment L2 and O2 files ready, so start up TerrainView. There you'll find it going to that just mentioned segment size and to 2048 x 2048 res.
Ok so far so good!

Now, to get this big sucker into the Falcon 4 where we can actually fly it. Ok, lets edit the theater.map file which contains the map size specifications, this will be hex editing which I dont know squat but luckily Julian Onions was (once again) so kind that he helped me out. Here is the direct paste from that guide:

OK - try this if you have Axe.

Go to position 0x41c - put the cursor over the byte there, should be
00 01 00 00 - which is 256 (L0 X size)
at 0x420 is 00 01 00 00 which is 256 (L0 Y size)
etc etc - in groups of 4.
To double the size of the theater, just double each of these bytes.
So change 0x41c to 00 02 00 00
change 0x424 to 00 01 00 00
ending with 10 00 00 00

That concludes HEX - 101...
---

Okay now you should have 128 x 128 size supported theater.map file. lets continue.

Insert your new theater.l2 and theater.o2 files into the terrdata\yourmapdir\terrain directory, run tinstall to rebuild the terarains "tinstall \falcondir\terrdata\yourmapdir".

Ok now its time to start falcon which should get you up and flying (instant action) just ok. but there the problems begin... look the terrain... Hmm.

Check out these screenshots I grabbed.

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/screensho ... -shot1.jpg
Umm, nice box shape :)

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/screensho ... -shot2.jpg
its like a wall...

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/screensho ... -shot3.jpg
Overall view from 24,000ft.

Comments, suggestions, discussions. Bring it on! :)

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Got the larger maps working. Will test it before I'll post my findings, stay tuned.

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

That sounds like great news! I was fiddling around yesterday with the map to see if you could at least get Tan son nhut airbase in (10.5 lat)and no can do without shaving off a whole degree from the north.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

All right. 128 and 256 maps are flyable!

Read our updated terrain tutorial with larger map creation tutorial. If there are something we missed in the tutorial, please feel free to ask.

I created the 40 by 40 degree map (256 x 256 segment) on Operation Desert Storm just to test it, and the whole terrain directory boomed to 1.8 GIGABYTES. Well thank you very much ;)

Anyway, I'm happy to help everyone who wants to get into larger terrains. so lets go guys!

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Damn,Wow, that's huge and flyable! Glad that we live in a time when >10 gig hd is pretty much par for the course.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Snakeman,
I think I have the answer to one of our problems but we need to talk about it in
private.I'm on ICQ most all weekend.9165219
Crossup
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Well done ! Very nice job.

YLR
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Had a nice instant action session on the 256 x 256 Operation Desert Storm map and boy... its large... its too large.

I'm not sure where instant action places waypoints, but when started from bottom-right corner, had flown to the upper-right corner in the map and waypoint 4 range shows 2340 miles :)

Umm, how many airrefuellings you need for that flight? (I used cheat, unlimited fuel).

Its nice to know we "can do it" even tho I cannot imagine who wants to fly actually this sized map.

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Great! Snake_Man.
I'd like to expand my theater to 20x20, if somebody could confirm that our machines can run large theaters, i mean numerous objects and compaign AI.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

FPS will no degrade because of larger theater.

Falcon 4 engine only loads fixed amount of surrounding terrain, it keeps loading these as you fly along. It uses fixed amount of memory and it doesnt matter if your map is 64 x 64 or 256 x 256. Thats the beauty of it.

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

My tests on 256 x 256 segment map shows that theater.L2 and theater.O2 files were total of 90mb and when zipped, they compressed to about 17mb.

All you need is L2 and O2 files for new theater when using TINSTALL by Julian Onions.

About download size, I can live with about 20mb theater addon leech.

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Yep around 1500 tiles are loaded at any time.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

eRAZOR, man its honor to have you here, welcome!

I must say, you are the guy who will put ibeta out of business (f4 business that is), its kind of sad really, they have done so much work hex editing and now someone comes and makes their work meaningless. But hey, its main thing that F4 community gets the best there is.

I didnt want to post anything on the other forums, but since you are here... its no hurry, but how about creating somekind of option in the Falcon 4 itself to change theater's so we dont have to use Terrain Switcher ?

I ask this because there are many terrains at work now: Balkans, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Falklans, Baltic and Hawaii.
Damn I love this sim and the community! :)

PMC TFW,
Snake Man.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Hello eRazor!
Agree with Snake Man and..how about bringing us a functonal carrier? moving ships? vigorous ship Air defense AI? carrier landing AI?

Wonder if some guys' working on 3D hacking, thought few new AAM models are available.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Another problem fixed with larger map issue, regarding on Tacedit missions. Now we are able to edit the 4096 x 4096 resolution in tacedit, but still Falcon 4 engine "scales" the mission files to 1024 x 1024 default resolution.

Julian is hoping to fix this soon.

Stay tuned...

PMC TFW
Snake Man
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Terrain Features were broken in the 256 x 256 maps (I think 128 x 128 too). Now they are working, Julian Onion fixed the perl script and TerrainView.

Step by step were getting closer to perfection :)

PMC TFW
Snake Man
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

I'm trying to develop a new scenario 20x20 (128x128 segments).
I've downloaded DEM data and in the header there's:

number_of_rows = 2400
number_of_columns = 2400

but in perl script there's :

number_of_rows = 1200
number_of_columns = 1200.

You say to change only the line
my($resolution) = 256/(2**$ofile);
to this:
my($resolution) = 128.

It isn't correct to change row/col values from 1200 to 2400 ?????
Thanks, and keep up the good work !!!!!!!!!!!
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

> It isn't correct to change row/col values from 1200 to 2400 ?????

Yes you are correct, you need to change the map resolution row/col too.

PMC TFW
Snake Man
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

I was fiddling with the 40 by 40 map size, and this was kind of nice:

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/screensho ... Anyone.jpg

How about three theaters in one map, Desert Storm, Balkans and Libya? :)

I think that map was west 11.0, east 51.0, north 50.0 and south 10.0 degrees.
Hmm, dunno about campaign in such a map. Could Falcon engine different three possible wars on one map... or could we create three different campaigns, each of their own regions. Hehe sounds so cool and massive it wont probably work.

PMC TFW
Snake Man
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Yep, that looks like the nations of Armagedeon to me.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Isn't the number of objects hardcoded and so limited in the F4 engine ? Anyway, the fps already take a hit in a normal campaign, so with 3 running in the same time... But for theaters with a strong navals emphasis that should be totally doable. Easier to tile also. Where did I put this book, "The coming war with japan"....
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

YLR, you mean a Japan theater? Kurile islands? Midway? or Pearl Harbor??
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Ooops, I've been off for a while. Sorry for the delay ccc. I was just suggesting that super large maps should be doable for theaters with limited fighting units as they is (I think) a hardcoded maximum of units. And the best way to get this is aeronaval conflicts.
The book was about a future conflict between USA and Japan. Basically, it said that as Japan regain slowly it proper place on the international scene, it will develop a strong naval force to protect its line of communications and that will conflict with US policy wich is total naval supremacy on both ocean (atlantic and pacific). There was some interresting tidbits in the book, like the question why Japan would by AEGIS ships. These you need when you expect to send naval forces in place where you don't have air superiority, and so they don't fit in the current official naval doctrine (protection of Japan coastal waters).
The autors actually works for Stratfor (www.stratfor.com), a good place for getting scenarios.
My personal favorite for theater would be Spartly Island conflict with China but that need that ships AA weapons be fixed first. One day...
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

YLR, spartly island theater is considered before tiling Falkland.
need at least 20x20 map to cover major islands.
and yes, we need functional warships first.
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Cant you fit Falkland island and the other coast to same 10 by 10 degree map, is the distance too long for these two land pieces?

PMC TFW
Snake Man
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

ccc : Well, big maps are coming, thanks to this very site. And the balkan groups is making nice overall progress too so it should not be too far in the future. Keep me posted if you start yours before me...
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Ooops forgot one thing. CCC, did you get any DEM that actually show the Spartly islands ? They are so small that they didn't show up on the one I tried (USGS mainly).
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

no. most are atolls. they probably wont be labeled.
Here comes the problem: you got to create islands all yourself!! but how? :)
Guest

Re: Larger Map (128 x 128) Issues

Post by Guest »

Hmmmm. Maybe by using the seafloor we can determine the general location of the islands. They must be the top of a submarine montain range or something like that. After that a good map is going to do the job.
I didn't know they were so small and flat. Going to be hell with SAMs and flak : 30-40 km of clear fields of fire without a single place to hide. I don't know if the F4 ground engine take supply in acount for ground forces. I hope it does because it is much easier to blast the ships and let the garnisons starve to death than going after them...

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