Tacedit obj flags

[elpucko]

First,
Hello to everyone, this is my first post, here.
(and sorry for my worst English)

I'm/was watching PMC through years "behind the scene" , (from ofp - vietnam mod, huh, and all others, coc... )
(well there wasn't such need for registration, because every bit of information is/was practically at hand, and then project wiki...)

Well the time has come to find out some thing that isn't and never even wasn't "at hand",
so I humbly seek your professional opinion, errr, help
Not just for the ultimate solution, then for guides, where, what to look for.
So I'll just cut the crap.

Flags of "objectives" properties, are not quite sel-explanative, so, If someone here have spare 5 mins, just to give me heads-up.
Are they any of use? , As I can see in .tac .cam , not AF ones tho , they aren't much widely used.

I am "playing" with TE creation, easy way, ingame editor, tcl (script kidie:) ), and I've got to the point where to include Air defense, but this out of my depth.
Right now I am trying to bypass some serious coding job, and create some respectable C4I, IADS, GCI using (editing) just db and tacedit.
I know that data is linked between objectives and even units. But how? , So I'm interested also in links, well ones for movement, and brigade-battalion,
are not quite difficult, but there's always room for error.

How to "integrate" ewr, airbase, radar objectives with sam , ew units? (eg, EWR site, /does gci flag mean something?/ objective -> a50 unit-> s300 unit, how? with parent? I guess not)

Well that'll be quite for start. First things first.

Thanks in advance
El Pucko

P.s I'm sorry if this is wrong place, thread, for this, if so, please feel free to put it where it belongs. Thanks

[Snake Man]

Indeed good question as there is no valid explanation page on our forum or wiki. I don't also know much about them at least to the level I could say something definite about them, some forum posts suggest that generally most objectives have the "Flat" flag on, but that isn't much to go on now is it heh.

Hopefully along the way we can clear this topic up and make some notes on our wiki about it. Just for reference I've listed the Tacedit objective dumb page's flags part here:

Tacedit objective flags

Base Flags edit box

Ambush
Artillery
Fixed
Flat
Radar
Beach
Manual
Needs Repair
Border
Commando
Mountain
Frontline
2nd line
3rd line
Sam
NTCR
GCI

If anyone knows more details, or even thinks they know, feel free to post and we'll see what we can come up with. Sorry elpucko to not have anything helpful to post at this stage

[elpucko]

Not to be sorry at all,

It isn't anybody's "fault?", or...
We should be all sorry that that darn thing wasn't better documented in a first place.
I guess it wasn't "designed" as such. As Julian once stated in f4browse.txt, :

16.6.2002.
<If anyone would like to collaberate on updating the help file for this, let me know.
I'm not too good at writing explanations - especially for programs I've written (hey - I know
what that buttons does - I spent 3 hours coding up the thing!). I'm willing to explain things
and help with context sensitive stuff - but just can't face writing all the text at the momment!>

Aww, that is a decade moment. So, for the record, we'll just have to do better in the future.

So, nevermind the flags, Is there someone who actually have some experience in integrating the network of Air defenses ?
Whole concept of the game is in that, "network", I'm not even sure that I'm referring it by right name, eg. relative db "data-links" between
everything, so detection->reaction, case.

[demer928]

GCI is "Read in" I believe, from the .MEA. Maybe ED_1 can correct me on this one????
From my understanding the Manager's in Falcon, use this, to send message's to the VUv2 engine......
GroundControlIntercept(GCI) has been used, more then we think, since it first appeared in WWII.
I believe in Falcon that it is used to "Link" Objective's via Radar....could be wrong.
But,I have alway's set that flag for Military Objective's in Campaign's...........

my 2cts.,
demer

[elpucko]

Yes, thank You, demer.

Aww, and I am talking, about FF, and in general, not AF, forgot to mention that. I know that it is all Falcon family, but, some kids are from milkman, postman
Aha, it could be , and it probably is, even partially, because as I recall *mea* file is responsible for radar coverage definition, hills, slopes etc.,
but only in this aspect, terrain.
So this alone is not quite enough for GCI network. I guess that my answer lies somewhere in code, but who knows (well that is not hard to guess, is it?),
after all deletions/insertions, through years...

TE is matter of choice here, because CMP would complicate things further, ..changing AOBJ on the *fly* (of campaign) etc.
Currently, I am able to define, flag, objects with radar with nctr,gci,radar,sam (through csv script), and checking for behavior, units aobj to that object, s300.
I've created more smaller battalions rather then few large ones. So 2xlauncher 1xradar and (cosmetic only) 1x gcv. (ground control vcl's are purely cosmetic, no flags, no air detection, nothing) - is this true?
So put them in vicinity of two different radar stations, obj, with those flags above defined.
Units are in different divisions, (to test, make them brigades, in the future).
Yes, I am getting, ALL the radar spikes I can get, I guess. And multiple launches, but is still ongoing test.

What about SAM objectives? These are only "placeholders", features, for "static?" sam units or what?.
As I can see in AF/FF database there are nothing more then terrain, few trees, dunno if that are all features. But there are no targets, in sam obj, as in all Falcons.
Oh they are named SA-2 site, etc but nothing there to target... (if you don't drive some unit there)
So what are We/I'm missing? ALOT

Yes, will keep trying.
Thanks

[demer928]

Your welcome,

I did some quick test's and it appear's to me that GCI is another one of those thing's in Falcon that is half-broken.Some of the Data seem's to be derived from the .cam\.tac and other Data from the .thr file, as well as the .mea.........maybe the "Baldeagle" can swoop in and at least give us a hint
I no longer have the FF code, due to a HDD Crash awhile back, so I can only reference the "Leaked" code.That is what I am basing my assumption's on.

As far as the SAM Site,until you put a unit on it,it is the same as a village,bridge or any other objective....except it has no Feature's nor STATIC model's on it,just a kinda "Map" as to where the unit's vehicle's are placed.
Now it doe's have a Radar Location,and I dunno if that is read in as far as GCI go's. I know that Hustler and I had a problem with Radar's on AB's in FF,and targeting\RWR. IIRC he fixed a bad Data entry for a radar feature and it went away it seem's in FF5.5.

Hope this help's
demer

[elpucko]

Thank, You.

Yes, of course it helps, any kind of (correct ) input is appreciated. At least it reduces the unknowns.
I've totally reworked "my copy of" taiwan thr, te_new.tac, to suits the needs for testing. Few objects, radar's, sam's, ab's.
And those smaller sa10 untis.

With all this done, now I would like to concentrate more onto debugging, output listening.
What radar's (in gci) are getting, does they, and how and where they transfer that info to the world, other sites/units.

Are there any known cfg switches or key-combos which would enable output of that stuff on screen, even better, to a file?
... something like shared-memory for aircraft data,.... as for me. non-coder, that stuff is pretty out of reach.
In short, debug mode, I guess simplifed doesn't exist here, is it available, and how to activate, use it? eg. select some radar object and "listen" for it's i/o.
I've seen some debug switches in cfg, and in keyconfig file, who knows what and how it works, and honestly, never tried to bool them on, well, will now...

I don't need "all" stuff shown, just, behavior tracking of that .. object, when in/out - gci/radar/sam flag mode.

I'll send this to Hustler also.

Cheers

P.S, Little Offtopic, hey it's my thread I can hijack it

Say Demer, yes I've seen that thread where You mentioned that little mishap with harddrive, year, two ago.
You didn't trash it didn't You? (Say You didn't)
I guess You didn't repair it neither, but, maybe is not all lost, if there's hope...
Now, I don't want to play smartass, or something, but if You're familiar with the option that with exact same drive type, (not 100%, eg. not same firmware), but electronics/controller can be replaced.
Even magnetic cylinders/plates.... So if it applies, maybe You can try, or You know someone who is more "crafty" with stuff like that.
You can buy used but!, at least healthy drive (even with bad sectors) of the same type. And say them (manufacturer) F***off for the data-rescue, drive replacement hefty price.
Well, it all depends of error type, and extent of damage, but, like I've said, don't wanna play smartass if You know the "drill" but unable.
Just a try/hint.

Cheers

[RAM22]

With all this done, now I would like to concentrate more onto debugging, output listening.
What radar's (in gci) are getting, does they, and how and where they transfer that info to the world, other sites/units.

Are there any known cfg switches or key-combos which would enable output of that stuff on screen, even better, to a file?

Nothing in game you can do. It requires the source code and Visual Studio to run FF in debug mode.

RAM22

[elpucko]

Hey RAM, hi man,

Awww, drat, so much 'bout.
Well VS is not a problem... else..
Anyway, good to know.
So things will have to be decompiled then , just kidding.

Then it goes the complicated way. Will workaround, try separate units, launcher - radar - ew/sam obj, combos... in div/brig. etc.
That must show if "communicating".

Hmmm, Vcl TELAR's doesn't have detection anyway, and unit's radar is defined in unit alone.
But how/what when unit have 2 radar vcl's, (most sam's are) one is used as default rdr-vcl, and then if that one is destroyed.
Afaik, unit is still able to detect and engage, so far that it have some means of detection...

So that means that it uses 2nd vcl-radar automatically, and/or something else which acts as sufficient detection platform.
But what that "else" can be , can it be ew/sam-site obj with radar feature?
Hehe, ah, questions, they all are in the need for answers
We'll see.

Cheers

[RAM22]

The old source code is available on the internet.

RAM22

[elpucko]

Yep, about some time...

Interesting things are in digi/sfusion, but, as I've said, more like a guideline, 10yrs+ of (d)evolving is dramatic., and then again
... some real results would show not only after patch 99, then when we all become Beagles.
Jeez where are all ol'good ppl disappear, like, those ea/Origin/Skunkworks, Mps, DiD, ya'know creators of sim's.
Not much to expect in near future.
Only if when would somebody sPiLl it out in the open, hehe, not very likely.

Ah, a-bla, checking out for today.

Bye, cu RAM

[demer928]

Thank, You.

Yes, of course it helps, any kind of (correct ) input is appreciated. At least it reduces the unknowns.
I've totally reworked "my copy of" taiwan thr, te_new.tac, to suits the needs for testing. Few objects, radar's, sam's, ab's.
And those smaller sa10 untis.

With all this done, now I would like to concentrate more onto debugging, output listening.
What radar's (in gci) are getting, does they, and how and where they transfer that info to the world, other sites/units.

Are there any known cfg switches or key-combos which would enable output of that stuff on screen, even better, to a file?
... something like shared-memory for aircraft data,.... as for me. non-coder, that stuff is pretty out of reach.
In short, debug mode, I guess simplifed doesn't exist here, is it available, and how to activate, use it? eg. select some radar object and "listen" for it's i/o.
I've seen some debug switches in cfg, and in keyconfig file, who knows what and how it works, and honestly, never tried to bool them on, well, will now...

I don't need "all" stuff shown, just, behavior tracking of that .. object, when in/out - gci/radar/sam flag mode.

I'll send this to Hustler also.

Cheers

P.S, Little Offtopic, hey it's my thread I can hijack it

Say Demer, yes I've seen that thread where You mentioned that little mishap with harddrive, year, two ago.
You didn't trash it didn't You? (Say You didn't)
I guess You didn't repair it neither, but, maybe is not all lost, if there's hope...
Now, I don't want to play smartass, or something, but if You're familiar with the option that with exact same drive type, (not 100%, eg. not same firmware), but electronics/controller can be replaced.
Even magnetic cylinders/plates.... So if it applies, maybe You can try, or You know someone who is more "crafty" with stuff like that.
You can buy used but!, at least healthy drive (even with bad sectors) of the same type. And say them (manufacturer) F***off for the data-rescue, drive replacement hefty price.
Well, it all depends of error type, and extent of damage, but, like I've said, don't wanna play smartass if You know the "drill" but unable.
Just a try/hint.

Cheers

You could try in OF4.7,(the .cfg Bool's are still there). But,some of the CT#'s have changed in FF.Soooooo....you would have to figure out what goe's with what.(i.e. vis...vis)Not a big problem, but something to consider.
As far as the FF HDD crash, I have no problem or interest anymore in recovering that Data. If I did,it would only be for the Tool Update's that BaldEagle had giv'in me,that is it. I am sure that the code and DB's have moved ahead!!!
But, Thank You for the suggestion's.
As well,some people in the FALCON world have suggested that I no longer try to help\support the FF Team in their endeavour's.That is far from the truth, as evidenced in the Taiwan\Balkan's Theater release's.I still try to support Hustler and his Team, whenever I can help, as a Hacker........... !!!!!!!!!!!

demer

[elpucko]

Thanks

Psst, be veeeery careful with "politics off" the site. Snakie, doesn't like it so much.

Yes, I've 4.7, not installed tho, ah dancing with multiple, all 3 versions on the same hdd, that will make ME unstable.

[demer928]

Thanks

Psst, be veeeery careful with "politics off" the site. Snakie, doesn't like it so much.

Yes, I've 4.7, not installed tho, ah dancing with multiple, all 3 versions on the same hdd, that will make ME unstable.

Khronik has a very good program out there for handling Multiple install's of Falcon.It's called F4XChange.I have well over 3 different install's on my new HDD, and it handle's it easily.......!!!!!! With no stability issue's......

As far as politic's....naw'........ I enjoy hacking at all flavour's of FALCON equally......HAHAHAHA!!!!
I think Snakeman know's that. If I see a problem in a certain version, that I think I can fix.Then I pass the possible solution on to those that are working on it.That's just being fair.

demer

[elpucko]

Well, that's really honorable, what can I say.
As far from sc-kiddies, I guess there are some ethics left in hackers - hacker's ethics ,
at least for those who stand behind that name anyway, not just l33t h4x0rs lupus groopus.
But that are "international waters" and there are all kind of weird s*** happening.
And they are best left alone, well, until "territorial borders" change, and that causes wars.
Even on the net, virtually, people still get hurt..., I mean by that, small people. (collateral damage)
Ah, clan wars, You can't live with them, You can't live without them.

Oh there's no stability as far as mine in question, for multiple installs I mean, It is problem in me only, to "catch up" with cross install, there I did that, that is from here, that is from there, essentially that are similar things differently called... things like that.

No problem for "having them on same hdd", I am aware of reg entries and things like that, even wrote batch that reads current hklm\microprose, stores, deletes and overwrites with another < OF.reg | FF.reg , eg. OF.reg one.
There is no problem with AF whatsoever, just FF/OF (share same reg key)
No need for fxchange, but thanks anyway, didn't see the program, I guess errr, it is one-click solution, where's my batch is double-click, well, not quite, but it works fine eg. microprose.bat %1 where is %1 = [FF|ff] || [OF|of]
I could even store temp in registry and pull it out from that copy.... but .... so much effort for that
I guess that design of fxchng is similar.

Well enough chit-chat, back to work
cu Demer, (err, will whistle for help soon enough )
Thanks