POH Theater-F4Spain news:desert texture

[Joe Labrada]

Hi everyone,

We are advancing slowly but well. On the home page of the news F4Spain update on the progress of the project.

We have the mountains, the forest ... and now it is the turn to the desert terrain.
Catch some of the new base texture applied:

[ccc]

nice tile work!

do you plan to add more desert tile variants?

[87th_striker]

Looking really good. Can you tell us what we are looking at ? How you made it etc. are there varaiation tiles ?

[Joe Labrada]

With Hardcopy and Google earth

-Monitor to 2048x1536 resolution
-Google earth without relief and a height of 1.28 kilometers (1px = 1m, remember that we are creating textures 1024 px).
-I catch from the area that interests me (many catches) and edited with Paint Shop Pro
-We will make variations: about 4 or 5 more textures with randomly placed CATE.
-Missing rivers and roads: new catch and Paint Shop Pro.

This is a challenge.

We intend to completely replace the entire set of textures of our theater (1602 textures). Obviously, all these textures can be exploited by other theaters.

[Polak]

Nice to see someone also "fighting" with terrain tiles for the theaters. Let us perhaps exchange some constructive comments and share the experience.

First regarding your desert tiles. I agree that this is always a challenge to make them looking good. And yours definitely are, just perhaps you want to reconsider this strong gold color. There is also one darken dune with the black spot. It shows on the shot from the distance as repeated pattern. You may consider removing that dark dot and slightly lightening this spot around. If you take then a shot and see no repetition you done well this minor correction. But all that is just minor suggestions and feel free not to take it too serious.

However, word of caution. Attempts to introduce variance to this set of desert tiles may turn much more challenging that you and we all can now imagine and try to envision. The problem is that the variance is ALWAYS contained to one tile and from the distance, no matter how hard try, this would show the ugly face of repetition. Please try to introduce those variations and let us know about your results and findings.

But, after having redone some significant portion of the tiles for ODS, I gave some thoughts to the issue how to make the tiles more interesting and not too repetitious. The secret is in main CATE terrain background bmp and in proper preparation of the such. This is not the place to introduce this concept but let me just say that to improve the effect we need to introduce there more noise to otherwise homogeneous type of the terrain.

I will make perhaps some examples to shore up and explain better this concept of noise later. Good luck with your Project.

[87th_striker]

What you can do is what we tried in F4ME (Pre ODS). Take the transition tiles from desert to next land type. Use like the 4 different corner transitions (to a darker feature) to make an "island" in the desert. You can also use the transition tiles to make different shapes of islands. When doing this try to put them in revetments in the terrain, and they will look a bit like an oasis (you might even throw in some palms). You cannot use this feature too often, but they may look very lifelike. With some variation tiles you can really brake things up.

[Joe Labrada]

It's true. This gold is not realistic. In reality this is not the texture hue. I think we have to change the color palette fartiles.pal and theater.map.

our original texture resized:


the original texture ODS


The palette:


Dune to see that you mean, try to eliminate this repeating pattern.


The variations are a challenge. Indeed, it will not be easy to avoid the effect of repetition. It would be very interesting to see your example of the coast to better understand your concept.

These oases can be introduced also using the textures of 16 transition to another type of land and creating oases in another color in the bitmap to CATE. Create a conf file for that single color transitions and then taking special care not to cut roads, rivers, airports, etc..

Also, as you say well, you can create textures for 4 small oasis. To automate the bitmap could be amended by adding points. These items would become the means Bmp2Cvs.exe a csv file and then apply a rule CATE Airport 4 to place these textures in each point.

[Polak]

I reply to your questions in detail later. Your texture is fine. In fact I studied it in my portable "seamless machine" it is made truly well. Not some ordinary edge flip or seamless rotation. That is what I do and somehow I get away with it.
Original ODS texture is also nice.

But all goes to drain if we have JUST those textures. They go on forever and they become tiring. So this is why I am trying to come with some idea to utilize CATE to redo partial areas filled with homogeneous tiles. I hope that Snakeman will help me with that when all is ready. I see you have also many ideas. Let us talk again later.

PS. How do YOU get away with posting pictures on this forum?

[Polak]

Joe,
here is your texture with some color changes and removal of the repeatable spots. The texture is beautiful and well done as far as seamlessness. (I mention this again) However, if not broken by other believable desert terrain features after some time becomes tiring and boring. Mine too. Still any color can be changed, any palette. This is good texture but only together with others.

These oases can be introduced also using the textures of 16 transition to another type of land and creating oases in another color in the bitmap to CATE. Create a conf file for that single color transitions and then taking special care not to cut roads, rivers, airports, etc..

Yes this is the very way I am suggesting. Not only oasis , but anything really. Rocks, patches of green, different textures and patterns of sand etc. etc. Each of GENRE terrain should have some of the "subterrains" with background of the original genre terrain. F4 terrain can be really done well and beautifully as long as you want it.

[Joe Labrada]

Thank you very much, Polak

I answer with a little delay. Sorry

Indeed, the texture variations are very important to prevent boredom. Working on it. We hope to have a complete set of phoroealistic textures of desert and rocks to the end of the year.

[Phoenix711]

Hi There.

First of all, you have a beutiful work going out there. Keep it up.

I have to points I want to share my experience.

Variations:

Variations that are made by one tile are good. But if you want some real variations, you may crop 2 - 3 desertish areas (like 4 km x 4 km etc, which you think will fit onto your base esert terrain, or even 3 km to 5 km etc) from google earth, and put it over your base tiles (4x4 etc), then split it to 1024 x 1024 16 tiles, and using ATAP, you can randomy put them in into your terrain.

That woul add great variating effects to the terrain. And, you don't need to create new, you can just use your other tile types, which have transition to the desert type to create area variations.

But, don't forget, you should do this only and only all of your road and river tiles goes in. Otherwise, you may have to remove variations areas for roads rivers etc.

What I talk about is not variation tiles but variation areas.

Here is an example.

Normal View:




Explained. Blue: Area variations. Green: Tile variations.



2. X3 Values:

At the first picture showing your desert terrain, the x3 values for your tiles seem different from each other causing the shadowish looks on some of the tiles. Maybe you want to check your terrain in that area, for what is causing this. I bet it is the X2 or X3 differences.

Regards and if there's anything I can help, please write.

[Luk]

Hi.
You can replenish your tiles with X1 color variation as well (tested in AF).
I show you some picts from my first try - its about month old and its just a test.
You can just decently tint the terrain, or change it's temperature a little, but you can totally change tile colours as well.

Here are some pictures, where X1 modification was used with unmoded/deffault PMC central Europe(just roads + grassland):
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/qhS7rx2Sz7.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/s6H5WcrgVx.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/Au8Qt9yl3Z.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/yUmUbKXE61.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/KUM1fj4tyV.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/OuGLPrU1ci.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/Djf8v2kuX7.jpg[/img]

here are some pict, where the tint is aplied over some handtiled areas:
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/8bm5etLyNK.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/C8jj3Bz4RT.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/EgVgKMn1aQ.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/pWRMlPmmhF.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/gc4AjcBj6W.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/H4fHrXpppb.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/NCZGS7VJXU.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/MWgCFCDwqf.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/UQ6bAutQhK.jpg[/img]
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/XhcJEdhoVi.jpg[/img]
I will prepare better map for the next pass (more gray cities, with decent orange (roof-tiled) city centers and without those ugly violet areas (violet is unmodified corine GIS colour). I want also modify green colour.

I think it will be extremly fast, easy and powerfull solution for desert terrains, espatially those with just only one boring tileset. I can prepare it for ODS for example..

Luk
and some bonus - dont lynch me for postproduct please
img]http://imgupload.cz/s1/MbTaOF1kzV.jpg[/img]

[Joe Labrada]

Did not know this new ATAP program. It is very good ... Thanks, Phoenix711; You can be sure will use this wonderful tool.

I see that the combination of variations aeras tiles and tiles using photorealistic textures give much realism to our theater. The variations colors is also interesting, Luk. Good bonus ... We will also test on this issue.

We have adapted desert to a lighter color.


















We are using 1024 px textures.

Htiles: 1024 px
Mtiles: 256 px
Ltiles: 64 px
Ttiles: 16 px

For this reason we feel a bit transitions from L2-L3-L4 and L5 especially a very high feets. We have tried other resolutions with Mtiles and Ltiles and this is the choice of resolution more balanced.

It would be interesting to modify these distances transition (
the distance of transition are more distant) given that PCs are more powerful now or would also be interesting to L3 using Ltiles instead of Ttiles. Is that possible?

[ccc]

the new desert tile looks great.. it looks sharp at low! and, at medium to high alt, you may slightly blur the dune.. make it not that sharp. btw.. some variants would be wonderful.

[Joe Labrada]

Thanks, ccc.

The idea that I propose more or less, in a visual way, is as follows:




Only modify the distances.

[ccc]

right hand one should looks better... but the left hand one will have better graphic performance

i pick left one. more FPS.

[Phoenix711]

Seems like a terrain engine issue, which probably need code work on the exe.

Hope I'm wrong. You may try the -G17 etc additions to your falcon shortcut. This way, you can slide the graphic sliders more to the right. This may solve this problem maybe.

You should test it.

[Joe Labrada]

but the left hand one will have better graphic performance

Indeed. Quality has a price. Would have to do tests and find a point that improves the appearance without unduly impair the frames

You may try the -G17 etc additions to your falcon shortcut. This way, you can slide the graphic sliders more to the right

Sorry, Phoenix711. The translator can not understand your words . What do you mean exactly to say "You may try the -G17 etc additions to your falcon shortcut." I'd like to try any option that can improve the appearance of the theater . After all is what we see 80% of the time in flight (more than the skins of airplanes, buildings, etc ... ... which obviously is also important to provide realism to the sim )

[Phoenix711]

Right click the falcon shortcut on your desktop. after the shortcut add the -g17 switch. Example:

c:\microprose\falcon4\F4-BMS.exe -g17

you can even go to higher numbers and make tries.

After doing that, go to in game SETUP / GRAPHICS menu. You will see the sliders can be set to the right more than normal. Try with different values.

So maybe if it makes a difference, and it does, but costs some FPS loss.

[Joe Labrada]

I tried but I failed to function. Moreover, it implies a change in the configuration of Falcon installed on the user's PC. I would like only to our theater.

Nevertheless, Thank you, Phoenix711