F-14 Tomcat shoots down MIG23s in Libya

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-10-28 19:28:17

Everyone has heard the world famous radio comms recording of F-14 Tomcat shooting down MIG23s near Libya coast. Well, I have been listening that cool comms so many times that it felt cruel not to have the terrain in Falcon 4.0, so ...

Do I have a fucking tone?

derStef · Post by **derStef** » 2008-10-28 22:29:15

WOOOOOOOOT! INCREDIBLE SNAKEMAN IS BACK ON THE TRACK OF HIS FAMOUS THEATER CREATION ERA!!!!!! YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!! JIPPEEEEEEYEEEAAAHHH!!!

very cool Snake Man! what terrain tiles does it use? i think the ODS tiles are the right choice!

Cheers Man!

regards
Stef

(i'll make the FF campaign, if i'm allowed)

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-10-29 05:28:15

cool. shocked.

for meditarrean sea operation.. dunno if you should include " slightly more" italian sisily island.. i saw you included an AFB there.

anyway the layout is ok.. i saw there's a possibility to do Libyia vs Chad campaign.. and conflict between Lybia and Egypt, historically.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-10-29 06:19:29

what terrain tiles does it use?

Now it just uses korean tiles.

i'll make the FF campaign, if i'm allowed

Well is this going to be developed theater or just quick one evening fun for me? Will be decided later, if someone likes this looks of this, let me know and I might get enthusiastic about putting it to release condition

Anyways I would appreciate all the help for campaign editing.

dunno if you should include " slightly more" italian sisily island.. i saw you included an AFB there.

I snapped the theater coordinates to even numbers, main focus was to gather all Libya in there.

Code: Select all

Theater name: my_mideastbig
Theater size: Regular
Size (L2 segments): 128 x 128
Size (L2 tiles): 2048 x 2048
Size (Nautical Miles): 1104.75 x 1104.75
Resolution: 0.134858 Nautical Miles
Centered on: Lat 28 Long 18
NW: Lat 37.2063 Long 6.44105
NE: Lat 37.2063 Long 29.5589
SW: Lat 18.7937 Long 8.27524
SE: Lat 18.7937 Long 27.7248
Highest point: 10810ft
Lowest point: 0ft

there's a possibility to do Libya vs Chad campaign.. and conflict between Libya and Egypt, historically.

Can you tell me more about this historical Egypt conflict?

Anyways that theater you see is 128 segment in size, we don't have option to go larger. We can shift the theater around, right now the action seems to focus on the central northern part of the theater area in the coast line, naturally when US carriers are on the sea. Also someone might notice that Tunisia is on BLUFOR, I had to put SOMEONE on their side to make campaign work, I have absolutely no idea what the relations between US and Tunisia are, if its even fictionally possible to have US troops on the ground there. Its just a "campaign fix" which can be changed in 5 minutes. We can shift the theater more north, but then we cut off the southern part of Libya, I wanted to keep whole Libyan terrain in the theater.

All suggestions are welcome, everything is still open so voice your opinion about this theater.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-10-29 10:32:05

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_353.shtml

check the lower part of article.. March on Cairo

Lybia AFB
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... fields.htm

Lybia AF OOB
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -orbat.htm

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-10-29 16:14:02

I have now linked the theater a bit, just to connect those primary cities which there are very very few and airbases. Linking improves the air campaign too, don't ask my why but it does. Libya theaters DCW data is pretty sparse, there is no cities in Chad and Niger for example so we cannot make PAK areas for them (unless we change some village to a city for PAK purposes).

I need to fire up google earth and get a feeling how Libya looks from satellite view, so we have some idea what sort of tiles this theater would need if ever someone would make new tiles for it. Does anyone have any Libyan color photo links, aerial or satellite?

Any suggestions how to setup the two teams fighting, Libya and ... who? which needs to be connected with a link.

Maybe some fictional scenarios, Egypt vs Libya? (even though there is very little Egypt in the theater).

Send any kind of suggestions, whatever comes to your mind because I started this theater not really knowing if anything comes out of it... so any feedback would shape its potential future.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-10-30 03:25:40

Libya theaters DCW data is pretty sparse, there is no cities in Chad and Niger for example so we cannot make PAK areas for them (unless we change some village to a city for PAK purposes).

finally i realize this one is a monster 128 theater

and yes, Libyia land is all but boring plain desert.. so the border security counts on small fortified posts. To make PAK doable, maybe adding few small village or Korea DMZ bunkers, named them as Post 11, Post 12, etc.

Any suggestions how to setup the two teams fighting, Libya and ... who? which needs to be connected with a link.
Maybe some fictional scenarios, Egypt vs Libya? (even though there is very little Egypt in the theater).

Histroical US vs Libyia conflict can only be reproduced by TE, no ground fighting. the real ground fighting are, IIRC 1977 Egypt vs Libyia, small scale conflict along border - so this map layout is ok. the end point of conflict can be set as blue or red side captured some border obj/villages. the setting can use mirageg5 vs mig17/21/su7.

another vague conflict is Libyia vs Chad.. another forgotten battle that French military power involved.. AFAIK France send some mirageF1 and did do OCA on libyia AFB- with durandel or belouga. in this case Chad has minimal air power, just counts on French support.

then, for US power to play a role in this theatre, maybe landing some US troops on Libyia soil to capture its capital, simulates a more aggressive scene in '80.. much like a copy of 1991/2001 iraq operations- to capture the dictator? the fictional campaign may have US troops directly land on Libyia coast as a start, or from Tunisa? or from Egypt. USAF or allied forces launching from sisily, Crete island, and Egypt.. USN send two or three carriers curising in meditarrean sea.. well sounds a bit overwhelming( or boring?) - the campaign could give you a feeling that similar to PMC ODS1991 or 2001..too easy for Blue side.. Libyia airdefense could be disabled in first campaign day- then the rest of flying is air-to-ground, till blue ground units reach their obj to win.

of course, the fictional campaign could be set in 2010 or later, with CIS involvement..the military hardware could be more challenging to blue side.

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-10-31 17:05:11

Snake Man, can you post a picture with roads visible ?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-11-02 09:19:13

Don't have feature image at hand right now.

OK I just completed the linking, there is some utterly stupid links like roads with just bridges leading to nowhere, these kinds of objectives and links have absolutely no meaning in the theater. Of course I have no evidence that they hurt anything either, so it would be just extra work to remove them without any gains, so they'll stay.

I'm building this on RV and had some CTD errors after linking was about complete and ground units were placed, weirdest thing which I have to track down. Of course this theater is mostly air-to-ground war from US carriers, unless we make up some fictional wars to be fought, for example the Libya vs Egypt conflict.

Anyways, next I'll create the UI's for OF and AF (I'm developing this in RV), create installer and then you guys can try it out

This is 128 segment theater and the linking took me just few days working on them few hours per day, I was surprised how quickly it got done.

Anyone up to make some Libya ground texture tiles?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-11-02 15:46:35

Anyone up to make some Libya ground texture tiles?

sorry i don't make tiles.

i just check SAT image in google.. i thnk the theater can use ODS tiles, for the time being.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-11-02 19:31:01

Attention hardcore theater developers, PMC Libya Theater on sale at low low price!

Yep I completed the linking, campaign runs more or less, UI's for AF, OF and RV... so here is the first test version of this theater. Lets keep this quiet, no need to go stir up trouble in other forums and news sites about this version which is very much under development in many ways. Lets just test this first and see where it takes us.

Download PMC_Libya_Theater_v0.1.rar - 13.6mb.

Post all feedback to this topic so we can track down the bugs. Here is the initial list so you know whats known already:

--- bugs
- save1 / save2 campaigns are missing/empty.
- instant action is empty.
- TE is empty.
- save0 campaign will crash on sim exit, does not effect normal gameplay.
- no victory conditions in the campaign except that it ends after 300 days.
- coastlines need terrainview + tacedit check and coordination.

Enjoy the testing.

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-11-02 19:47:41

The installer doesn't work with 64 bit Xp. "No F4 Install found".

If making the installer possible for WinXp64,

Wndows Registry Editor Version 5.00:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\MicroProse]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\MicroProse\Falcon]

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\MicroProse\Falcon\4.0]
"baseDir"="d:\\Falcon4"
"objectDir"="d:\\Falcon4\\terrdata\\objects"
"misctexDir"="d:\\Falcon4\\terrdata\\misctex"
"theaterDir"="d:\\Falcon4\\terrdata\\Korea"
"movieDir"="d:\\Falcon4"
"curTheater"="Korea"
"PilotName"=hex:53,74,72,69,6b,65,72,00,74,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
"PilotCallsign"=hex:53,74,72,69,6b,65,72,00,00,00,00,00
"initData"=bla bla bla
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\MicroProse\Falcon\4.0\MPR]
"MPRDetect3Dx"=dword:00000001
"MPRDetectCPU"=dword:00000001
"MPRDetectMMX"=dword:00000001
"MPRDetectXMM"=dword:00000001
"MPRGlideDll"="glide2x.dll"
"MPRAllD3DDevices"="FALSE"

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-11-03 13:23:03

RV install, no problem.
enter campaign 3d, exit, ok.
exit falcon. no CTD noted.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-11-12 05:57:37

theater selection tga..

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-11-12 15:08:18

fly f14 in 2nd campaign, first mission into libya..

i assumed this test flight is boring but - suprisingly i am welcomed by waves of SA-5s..before i can see the coastline of libya, some tiny snaky white missile trails up..some lost guidance by ECM jamming, some fooled by chaffs and explore in mid air..

when i occupied by SAM evasion maneuvoring, i found several mig25 closing fast - and AA-6s are incoming as well..full of action, topgun style

CTD bug noted when exit falcon.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-11-12 16:21:27

Sounded like a cool mission. But yeah you are right, the ground campaign is very ... well non-existent really. But anyways the whole point of this theater was to let people finally re-enact that F-14 vs MiG23 engagement in Libyan coast

I just cant wait the first video on top of that famous radio comms recording

Perhaps Molnibalage with FF5?

BTW ccc, thanks for the theater logo images, I have now added them in so they appear in the next version releases.

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2008-11-13 05:16:18

The more I think about these campaigns, the more I think they can be useful/fun/complete without a working "ground war", which is really the sticking point on theater creation.

A simple idea would be to create a scenario that requires the player to complete/deny completion some victory objective by air power alone. What would that victory condition be? Well, that's the hard part- thinking of a scenario that can supply "Falcon 4" attainable victory conditions through just air power.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-11-13 06:19:10

The damage caused from air... well if I'm correct, the only victory conditions to apply here are the supply level dropping, but so far I haven't heard that anyone have got them to drop

Its lame, but we can set a 4 day bombing campaign against Libyan targets, but hehe there is no "victory" except to just bomb and then clock decides when you win, not really interesting in that way.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2008-11-13 14:53:02

when i want to fly a histroical F-111 mission, i found no F-111 sq at blue side AFBs.

we may place one sq at pantelleria AB, the one in mediterrean sea, west of sicily.

molnibalage · Post by **molnibalage** » 2008-11-14 21:37:59

I just cant wait the first video on top of that famous radio comms recording

Perhaps Molnibalage with FF5?

I can try if you want but so many peapole did with other comat AC sim that won't bring any new thing. We will see.

I rather do a Top Gun movie from the '80s. F-14s vs. agrossor F-5Es and A-4s. Other option is a Red Flag movie.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2008-11-15 10:01:23

Yep, just joking, no pressure

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-21 02:25:56

Hi SM,

any chance i can have a te_new.tac file for checking routes?

with save0.cam i can not set and order armour units to move as i wish.

and, how hard it is to convert a [route-fixed *.tac] into a working *.cam?

BTW, i still have difficulity running perl to extract 2d UI map..may i have Libya and Georgia 2d map for test?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-05-21 08:02:23

PMC Editing Wiki: Tactical Engagement (TE). You can do it easily yourself.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-22 02:07:11

PMC Editing Wiki: Tactical Engagement (TE). You can do it easily yourself.

alright i leave it alone. i checked TacEdit [move cost value] and get what i need.

and this..

BTW, i still have difficulity running perl to extract 2d UI map..may i have Libya and Georgia 2d map for test?

i'd rather to log it as a missing feature in bug report - 2d UI maps need country border lines. Tweaking map is no joy for me.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-22 03:46:31

some scenerio idea for this 128 theater.. just for record..

[ Libya-Chad 1986 ]

reference:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/cat_index_13.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_357.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_360.shtml

map coverage- the 128 map focusing more on US-Lybia conflict, a bit too north, missing the lower part of Chad and her capitial N'Djamena. Yeloow box marks major combat area, Black dots roughly mark key airbase/cities objectives.

combat vehicles.. the composition is interesting, mainly a flight of [ Russian vs French weapon].
AIR - Lybia uses mig21?/23MS/25RB, su22/25?, Tu22 blinder, mirage5, mi24, IL76. SF260.
AIR - Chad/France use mirageF1C, jaguarA, KC135, Transall, Atlantic, Gazelle-HOT, Puma330, Mirage5R? mirageIV. later use Mirage2000?
Land - Lybia uses T72/BMP1/ BM14, SA6, Zsu23-4, SA-7, Dana SPG. light wheeled vehicle.
Land - Chad/France use light wheeled vehicle/Rover4x4/ toyota truck, T54, truck-based AAA, ATG, Crotale SAM, Hawk SAM, redeye and stinger MANPADS.

the interesting part of simmming in this scenerio..
- no F-16. mainly flying mirageF1C, jag A, mirage 5, mig23 and su22. extremely low-level fly over desert, use russina/french weapon. first combat use of AS.37 ARM and antiruway munition BAP.
==========================
Excution - NO JOY yet.

- terrain tile - use default korea one, looks greenish, not the red-brown desert style or scattering bush type over main combat area. I check the SAT image on Google map.. confirm it should look like desert.. and most rivers are dried riverbed.
- objectives - only few objectives listed on current build. need to add new obj, just few. Initial obj-linking test shows very high move cost among Chad obj.. tho i've used tweaked texture.bin..maybe need a no-river THR to help move-cost calculation. the slope doesn't look that steep.

Another TacEdit bug?

There're soooo many [bridges] in this desert type theater! so i decide to test- remove all bridges with TacEdit.
- i enter obj list page, select-all bridges and delete them > very quick and easy. now total obj count downed to 2474.
-then i check TacEdit functions..randomly hit functions like rebuild sq, re-flag obj or something like that.. see if some broken part should be fixed .. automatically. of course i did not re-link obj, thus leaving broken linking line on map.
- i save the tweak and exit, then re-start TacEdit to open this tweaked save0.cam. heck, a popup window said campaign id XX is duplicated...it seems some id list is messed up. so.. unable to open the cam file. Maybe the deletion operation is too extensive and wild? or should i re-link all broken parts before saving? it reminds me of Vnam or Afghan theater..How to remove bridges effectively and effeciently, while keeping auto-tiled watery or dried rivers as eyecandy?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-22 03:56:18

Another idea for '80 US vs Libya over Gulf or Sirte..

since no US ground unit invading Libya land, the ending of simulated campaign could only be reached by TRI- [ limit the war to run XX day ].

IF we could place one single blue mechanized unit on Blue side land, order it to move form one obj to another red obj and capture it, the given moving hours just give a reasonable war days.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-05-22 09:16:04

I'm not going to shift the theater coordinates, its completely linked the work is done, we have to live with it.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-22 13:46:12

another scenerio can use this 128 theater..

[ Egypt - Libya 1977 ]
a very small-scale border conflict..

reference:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_353.shtml

map coverage..

simming focus - flying mirage5, mig21, and su20 for CAP/CAS/Strike. most objectives are already on map.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-22 14:12:12

more pics to show.. Egypt-Libya border
road system is minimal.. SAT image - desert.

close-up of border terrain.. sandy..

BTW.. confirm this 128 theater is not suitable for Libya-Chad scenerio..drop the idea.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2009-05-22 14:14:17

ccc wrote:Another TacEdit bug?

There're soooo many [bridges] in this desert type theater! so i decide to test- remove all bridges with TacEdit.
- i enter obj list page, select-all bridges and delete them > very quick and easy. now total obj count downed to 2474.
-then i check TacEdit functions..randomly hit functions like rebuild sq, re-flag obj or something like that.. see if some broken part should be fixed .. automatically. of course i did not re-link obj, thus leaving broken linking line on map.
- i save the tweak and exit, then re-start TacEdit to open this tweaked save0.cam. heck, a popup window said campaign id XX is duplicated...it seems some id list is messed up. so.. unable to open the cam file. Maybe the deletion operation is too extensive and wild? or should i re-link all broken parts before saving? it reminds me of Vnam or Afghan theater..How to remove bridges effectively and effeciently, while keeping auto-tiled watery or dried rivers as eyecandy?

Could tcl scripts be used to remove bridges safely?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-23 03:08:09

Could tcl scripts be used to remove bridges safely?

hmm..i don't know.

As this 128 theater is so big, i don't plan to spend time on bridge-hunting.. instead, the idea/tweaking is focusing on specific areas of interest - like Egypt-Libya border. Black line marks main combat route.. looks like an one-way mini campaign. BUT - the initial obj-linking test is no good, high move cost.. need a no-river THR for further test.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-06-15 05:11:18

again thanx to Phenoix711, he convert the rough map for use in Libyia theater.. just add national borders to help dev.

screenots..

file for download.. place it in Libyia/Art/resource folder..

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yiywzmynlht/Libyia new map test.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yiywzmynl ... 20test.rar

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2010-07-26 05:21:53

http://www.multiupload.com/KUM98B6DXO

theater selection TGA for FF.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2010-07-26 06:16:30

Wow you're proceeding ahead of me, great

I'll try to include this on the upcoming Libya update. If you want, please do ODS + Vietnam too.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2010-07-26 11:19:07

Thoughts about historical mini-campaigns for Lybia theater.

Since Libya theater is so big..I doubt somebody want to polish the terrain work and make full-scale ground war. So..we may follow histroy line, focus on pure air operation and end the campaigns with timeup tigger. imo it makes modding job much much easier.

1. Crossing the line of death - March 1986.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_in_ ... dra_(1986)

features: US warships crossing the line of death, three US carriers, only navy fighter/attackers involved, Lybia side has SAM, fighter, and small warships. US priority set to SAM, aircraft, ships (DCA, SEAD, Antiship). Lybia priority set to aircraft, ships( DCA, Antiship). campaign starts at 0600, run for 48-36 hours- time up, stalement ending vid.

Libyan air defenses
The Libyan air defense network was extensive, and included:

4 Long range SA-5 Vega anti-aircraft missile units with 24 launchers.
86 SA-2 Volchov and SA-3 Neva anti-aircraft missile units with 276 launchers.
Covering Tripoli alone were:

7 SA-2 Volchov anti-aircraft missile units with 6 missiles launchers per unit giving 42 launchers.
12 SA-3 Neva anti-aircraft missile units with 4 missiles launchers per unit giving 48 launchers.
3 SA-6 Kub anti-aircraft missile units with 48 launchers.
1 SA-8 Osa-AK anti-aircraft regiment with 16 launch vehicles.
2 Crotale II anti-aircraft units 60 launch pads.

2. Bobming of Libya - April 1986.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya

features: USAF F111 strike camps and AFBs, US navy fighter attacker also join strik. US priority set to SAM, AFB, army base (SEAD, Strike, OCA). Lybia priority set to aircraft, ships( DCA, Antiship). campaign starts at 0200, run for 48-36 hours- time up, stalement ending vid.

BTW two wiki reference links..
F14 downed Su22 -1981
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Si ... ent_(1981)

F14 downed mig23 - 1989
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Si ... ent_(1989)

Also, i heard Monli is working on a 1980 DB.. could be used in this scenerio.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2010-07-26 17:44:56

Can you be more specific about polishing terrain work?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2010-07-27 02:33:42

Snake Man wrote:Can you be more specific about polishing terrain work?

- for eyecandy, need desert/dry land type tiles. Polak creates superb tile sets for ITO2 .. Lybia may use it. just wait ITO2 out.
- for a fully working ground war, obj-linking, redundant bridges, and move cost value should be checked. since ppl is not that interested in ground war.. leave it alone.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2010-07-29 22:27:01

We cant really add new tiles for this theater within the scope of v0.1.1 release, but is there anything besides:

- add tactical engagement TE file
- new theater selector image from ccc
- tweak trigger file to end war in 4 days?

I would need to fix?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2010-07-30 05:25:53

Snake Man wrote:We cant really add new tiles for this theater within the scope of v0.1.1 release, but is there anything besides:

I would need to fix?

maybe try my rough tweak on 2d map.. see post above, 2d map gfx with country border line.

http://www.multiupload.com/Z5TPXGPDCG

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2010-07-30 22:03:46

Thanks ccc, your map has been added.

PMC Libya Theater v0.1.1 has been released, mostly FreeFalcon 5.5.1 fixes, please check manual for changelog. Test and send feedback, thanks.

Download topic here.