Pre Alpha release 10-05-07

VTE - The most detailed and comprehensive Vietnam modification for ArmA

Moderators: Snake Man, Lone Wolf

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Snake Man
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Pre Alpha release 10-05-07

Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-05, 08:29:22 AM

Image

This is the Vietnam: The Experience pre Alpha 10-05-07 release, it is our second release for ArmA. This release has been done after heavy multiplayer testing and several suggestions and requests from the players.

Pre alpha means that this is very early version and work in progress. Usually the release cycles go from alpha to beta to release candidate into the final release. This second release is still incomplete but its been proven on MP to be very enjoyable, this release should enhance the MP even more. We just want to warn anyone who is interested to not get their hopes up, VTE team is not in the business to overhyping their work.
  • - There are no normal or specular maps.
    - All soldier models are re-textures and now even placeholders.
    - No new "ArmA models".
    - No missions or campaigns (except on our dedicated server).
    - No shadows on ported objects.
    - A "few" errors on arma.RPT file...
The bad list continues.

This release contains the following: A1 Skyraider, AH1 Cobra, A4 Skyhawk, B52 Stratofortress, C130 Hercules, CH-34, CH-47 Chinook, F4E Phantom (grey and camo), UH-1 Huey (slick, dustoff and gunships), O1 Birddog, OH-6, M113 ACAV (3 machine guns) and MC130 Combat Talon. For personal weapons we have: AK47, AR-15 (Colt Commando), DP27, M72 LAW, M14, M16A1, M21, M60, M79, M1911, Mosin 38, Mosin Nagant, PPS43, PPSh, RPD, RPG2, RPG7, SKS, Sten, Stoner, Svt, Type 56, Type 68, Uzi and XM177e.

The retextued BIS soldiers for US Army, NVA and Vietcong as well as config for all the VTE v0.4 soldiers, but using these just mentioned as placeholders until new models can be made. And of course the VTE objects/islands (terrains).

One area which we almost totally lack is the ground vehicles, besides the M113/ACAV, we have no ground vehicles at the moment. We'll see in future MP sessions if there are serious need for them.

Disclaimer: If you create missions with this release, be prepared to overhaul them completely in the future when we release next version, we guarantee you that classnames and stuff will change to break your missions. However the soldier classnames are now set, I would not think they will get changed, but nothing can be promised at this moment.

Screenshots: I run ArmA with all details set to low/very low and disabled, but I did take some shots from our MP sessions, check them out in VTE ArmA screenshots topic. However here is the earlier screenshots by granQ:

A4
O1 Birddog
M79 grenade launcher
VietCong face
CH-34
GI Joe
NVA
M113
Weapons 21st June 2007.
Huey's

Future plans: We have alot of work to do, all of the models need to be reworked, textures done, islands... configs... oh boy, dont get me started, anyone care to help? Hehe. I'm looking forward to working for the NAM stuff, it will be great.

Please join to PMC Tactical (VTE) dedicated server to test MP with this release, the more testing and bug reports we have, the better we can develop this further. Read details of the addons etc in PMC Tactical (VTE) dedicated server ADDONS topic. Hope to see you all on the server.

Changelog:

Code: Select all

--- fixes: hotfix 4
- huey controls are way too sensitive, difficult to fly. twkead a bit.
- most of the weapon sounds updated.
- more specific weapon recoils added.
- changed to more realistic running and sprinting speeds.
- high dispersion weapon configuration added.
- ah1g had broken turret/gunner view, fixed.
- No get in gunner point in ah1j, fixed.
- ah1j had broken turret/gunner view, fixed.
- In Vehicle: ah1j.p3d missing driver get in direction point, fixed.
- No get in gunner point in ah1g, fixed.
- added infantry categories to mission editor.
- added respawn weapons / gear, same as default weapons / gear.
- muzzle flashes were visible all the time on many vehicles, fixed.
- clan signs (default bis) were visible all the time, fixed.
- adjust smoke shells to last longer. now its about 50-55 sec, fixed to 150secs.
- added white, red, green, violet and yellow VTE smokeshells.
- m60 door gun sound is "global", meaning can be heard far far away, fixed.
- changed oh6 picture/icon images to the air.pbo ones.
- oh6 has uh1 engine sound now, fixed.
- lssc proxys aligned wrong, fixed.
- c130 and mc130 didn't have animated gear, fixed.
- f4 phantoms didn't have animated gear, fixed.
- c130 and mc130 didn't have animated ailerons, elevators or flaps, fixed.
- f4 phantoms didn't have animated ailerons, elevators or flaps, fixed.
- changed VTE_Mounted_M60 to load up 500 rnds magazines (huey doorgun box).
- changed huey/ch47 doorguns to be loaded with single 500rnd box.
- added ZSU-57 using shilka placeholder.
- added m163 vulcan for US Army.
- added m113 ambulance for US Army.
- added support trucks for US Army and NVA.
- added trucks for US Army, NVA and VC.
- oh6a right gunner, gunner view was locked, fixed.
- added Ithaca shotgun with configuration to the proper units.
- added k98k with configuration to the proper unit.
- added Sten SD with configuration to the proper units.
- added ppd40 with configuration to the proper units.
- added mp40 with configuration to the proper units.
- added Mas36 with configuration to the proper unit.

--- fixes: hotfix 3
- added thompson with configuration to the proper units.
- changed pps43 for the units that should be using it.
- added m45 swedish k.
- added m39hp with configuration to the proper units.
- added m3a1 with configuration to the proper units.
- added m3sd with configuration to the proper units.
- added m1 carbine with configuration to the proper units.
- added m1 garand with configuration to the proper units.
- added enfieldn4 with configuration to the proper units.
- added browning hi-power 9mm handgun with configuration to the proper units.
- added Bren MkII machine gun with configuration to the proper unit.
- added M60 shorty machine gun with configuration to the proper units.
- added VTE_prc25 radio with configuration to the proper units.
- added VTE_typ63 radio with configuration to the proper units.
- oh6a left gunner had broken doorgun, fixed.
- oh6a right gunner had broken doorgun, semi-fixed. still gunner looks wrong.
- ch34 cargo proxys are in wrong position, fixed.
- ch34 cargo manactcargo cpp setting missing/wrong, fixed.
- added CAData and CABuildings addon dependency.
- ah1g and ah1j cobras turrets were not working, fixed.
- changed O-1 Birddog engine sounds.
- added second doorgun to ch47.
- ch47 doorgun was not working, fixed.
- ch47 cargo proxys are too low, fixed.
- vc sapper ak47/rpg7 cfgmagazine error, fixed.

--- fixes: hotfix 2
- a1 skyraider gets cas_init.SQF error at mission start, "fixed".
- hunter killer group, ah1 becomes a ch34, fixed.
- vte_wpn\models\veh\vte_atoll_mesh.p3d was missing, added.
- nva recon guy vte_typ56 missing, fixed.
- removed faulty shadowvolume from vte_m79.
- au sas patrol missing from config includes, fixed.
- jam sound used in aircraft weapons, fixed.
- old jam magazines in: au rifle, mike, sog recon and us army units, fixed.
- changed vte_tree07 to vte_tree06 in vietnam 12km and vietnam 25km terrains.
- B52 cockpit/pilot view missing, fixed.
- b52 pilot proxy aligned wrong, fixed.
- b52 does the shark fin LOD number 3, fixed.
- c130 pilot/gunner proxys aligned wrong, fixed.
- mc130 pilot/gunner proxys aligned wrong, fixed.
- infantry weapons rate of fire changed. (infantry_weapons.hpp).
- new sound update from tpM.
- error: cannot load mipmap vte_wpn\t\mk63.pac, fixed I hope.
- several units turned into RACS models when player used them, fixed.
- added weapons for ah1g and ah1j gunships.
- weapons\automatic_cannon.wss not found, fixed.
- changed M60 doorgun sound to tpM's sound, finally (heh).
- added t_select.paa, optika_heli_tl.paa and optika_heli_bl.paa into air\data\.
- added optikahelistred.paa into air\m\.
- ah1g and ah1j proxys were off, fixed (well mostly).
- cfgGroups had missing ;, fixed.
- ah1j config class reloadanimations had missing ;, fixed.
- napalm script was not launching on A1 and F4, fixed.
- tweaked napalm script for MP (createVehicleLocal instead of camcreate).

--- fixes: pre alpha 10-05-07
- added all VTE v0.4 groups (F2 in mission editor).
- added all VTE v0.4 soldier units, of course models are still placeholders.
- tweaked napalm bombing script.
- uh1 huey dustoff and gunships added.
- original VTE ambient sounds and voices added.
- original VTE music tracks added.
- added lssc boat as well as sampans.
- all personal weapon sounds updated, again.
- added F4E Phantoms.
- VTE_warehouse2.p3d had missing texture, fixed. (many islands effected).
- map labels missing from islands, fixed.
- ILS coordinates missing on all the islands, fixed.
- added environmental effects, weather, insects and birds into all islands, hehe.
- Vietnam 12km and 25km islands converted to VTE objects and added.
- added C-130 and MC-130 planes.
- added OH6 helo.
- ch47 muzzle flash was blackened, fixed.
- trails and roads did not show up on map, fixed.
- airstrip marsden mat wont show up as road, fixed.
- missing texture vte_air\data\uh60_cargo_oper_d.pac, added.
- tweaked B52 wheelSteeringSensitivity config so it turns on airbases.
- changed unique engine sound for B52.
- added AH1 Cobra.
- added A1 Skyraider, CAS, SEA and SAR versions.
- added A1 Skyraider wreck static object (for example SAR missions).
Download VTE_pre_alpha_10-05-07.rar - 218mb.
Mirror 1: megaupload
Mirror 2: bigupload
Mirror 3: sendspace
Mirror 4: gamingsa.com thanks to Aussie Dave
Any mirrors would be welcome.

Download hotfix 2 - 14.1mb.

Download hotfix 3 - 5.6mb.

Download hotfix 4 - 8.6mb.

Be sure to download hotfix 2, hotfix 3 AND hotfix 4, install them one by one, first hotfix 2 then hotfix 3 and finally hotfix 4. Of course if you already installed hotfix 2, then you dont need to install it again. Install as before, unpack to your VTE root directory and execute the runme.bat file. If you have any problems installing, feel free to ask for help.
Last edited by Snake Man on 2007-11-14, 08:09:39 AM, edited 7 times in total.
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Bigpickle
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Post by Bigpickle » 2007-10-05, 03:13:58 PM

HELL YEAH !!

Good job snake ! will get testing on server a.s.a.p :D

hueycat6
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Post by hueycat6 » 2007-10-05, 07:39:38 PM

Snake did i tell you how much i love you? j/k man this is awesome!

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Post by hueycat6 » 2007-10-05, 08:51:57 PM

Um...Snake have you tested it? Every add on weapon is just an M16....And the Cobras dont even fire anything...Also there are no new player models either. And many classes spawn with no ammo, you cant fire becuase you have no bullets. Also the AT classes have no rocket.

Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-06, 12:07:52 AM

hueycat6 wrote:Um...Snake have you tested it?
Yes, I edited models until they were working at least in the rotor blur area and obviously no errors on the screen. I didn't bother to adjust the pilot/gunner proxies on many models yet as thats very difficult at the moment as O2/Buldozer wont display the proxy character (driver/gunner) for me. However those models where the proxy was like on top of the helo (new Hueys for example) I of course adjusted it, but the Cobra and C130 are examples of mis-aligned proxys.
Every add on weapon is just an M16
We have only 1 NVA, 4 VC and 3 US Army re-textured models ingame. All of the rest placeholder units (old VTE v0.4 units) are using these existing models, the whole point was to get them just working that people can load old existing missions with them and create new ones (there are all the groups in the editor now).
And the Cobras dont even fire anything
Yes I believe they dont have any weapons in the config now. Easily fixed on just 50kb sized hotfix as its cpp stuff. The idea was to get them ingame and tweaking can be done later. I'll fix the Cobras ASAP.
Also there are no new player models either
Uh yes, I can not model new stuff and create textures, actually seems like many people have difficulties to even get the BI example models back in game as-is.
And many classes spawn with no ammo, you cant fire becuase you have no bullets. Also the AT classes have no rocket.
Hmm okay I'll look into this, I thought all the classes have at least M16 or AK47 by default, as many dont have the specific new guns what we are missing right now, so thats why they default to M16/AK47.
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Post by Bigpickle » 2007-10-06, 12:06:43 PM

I'm trying to learn as much as i can about editing arma, and shortly i'm gonna try out skinning for arma, so I'll let you know how i get along and donate any work i do thats good enough for the project.....cant wait to see the working mortar by the way... oh yeah and the cookie bomb, omg thats a big bang :o , shame it comes outta the top of the fuselage and crashes the plane :lol:

Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-06, 02:58:39 PM

Thanksf or the offer to help Bigpickle, appreciated. Hey how about if you open the VTE_chara.pbo and check out the existing few textures we have there that are used for VC, NVA and US Army soldiers, if you could to some improvements for those it would be great?

Also if you can easily edit them so they look ok on the model, how about changing the camouflage so we could do for example SOG and SEALs?

I think if you are good with graphics editing, then it should be easy. You dont have to worry about how to "apply" the texture into model or any modeling, just "painting" the existing texture which comes with clear examples of the boots, shirt etc outlines.

And just today I was looking the MC130 of how could I fix it so the bomb drops properly. With good scripter we could make it that you had action menu "Open Ramp" and when the ramp is open you get to fire the bomb, when you fire, its slides back until its out of the plane and then it does freefall drop into the ground. I however, cant script/animate this at the moment, sorry. I'm more than happy if someone can help me out on this one.
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hueycat6
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Post by hueycat6 » 2007-10-06, 09:40:18 PM

Yeah Snake_Man, Yesterday I was shocked at how many thing's didnt work ect. I went crazy lol but then as i explored the big picture i realize its actually pretty damn good! Thank's for your HARD HARD work Snake man, I know how hard it is for you; And im glad we have someone like you to do all this hard work to get the mod launched. As far as modeling, I have Maya and I dont know ANYTHING. I'm going to explore Visitor 3 probably later tonight. V3 and modeling is not easy stuff to learn.

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Post by Bigpickle » 2007-10-07, 10:37:01 AM

good for you hueycat you go for it, new knowledge is always a winner no matter how limited, stick with it dude.

@snake, will do my best or what i can with the tools i got :)

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Post by Bigpickle » 2007-10-07, 11:24:09 AM

lol having problems at the first hurdle, i use winpbo to open the pbo files, it will let me open some and not others, is there a better program that dont cause these problems

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Post by Bigpickle » 2007-10-07, 01:15:24 PM

ok i sorted out the winpbo problem, but im definately gonna need a tutorial or something on this type of work, as i cant actually tell from opening the .paa files on how to skin aircraft ppl or weapons, cos each file seems like a tiny little bit of the finished product and most are internal parts too.

I use CS3 and i have the .paa plug in.

Do i need other plugins, or programs, also snake or anyone else with experience if possible can you talk me through a simple example on TS or Vent on how to skin or texture in Arma, would be very appreciated :oops:

Thanx mate

Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-07, 03:16:10 PM

Opening PBO's use the kegetys cpbo util and to open/save paa/pac files use Texview2 util.

You'll find the soldier model textures in VTE_chara.pbo under \textures\ subdir.

If you can get IRC client like mIRC you can join to #VTE channel in irc.quakenet.org so we can chat there. I dont use any other instant message programs.
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Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-12, 03:47:05 PM

New hotfix 3 is out now!

Changelog:

Code: Select all

--- fixes: hotfix 3
- added thompson with configuration to the proper units.
- changed pps43 for the units that should be using it.
- added m45 swedish k.
- added m39hp with configuration to the proper units.
- added m3a1 with configuration to the proper units.
- added m3sd with configuration to the proper units.
- added m1 carbine with configuration to the proper units.
- added m1 garand with configuration to the proper units.
- added enfieldn4 with configuration to the proper units.
- added browning hi-power 9mm handgun with configuration to the proper units.
- added Bren MkII machine gun with configuration to the proper unit.
- added M60 shorty machine gun with configuration to the proper units.
- added VTE_prc25 radio with configuration to the proper units.
- added VTE_typ63 radio with configuration to the proper units.
- oh6a left gunner had broken doorgun, fixed.
- oh6a right gunner had broken doorgun, semi-fixed. still gunner looks wrong.
- ch34 cargo proxys are in wrong position, fixed.
- ch34 cargo manactcargo cpp setting missing/wrong, fixed.
- added CAData and CABuildings addon dependency.
- ah1g and ah1j cobras turrets were not working, fixed.
- changed O-1 Birddog engine sounds.
- added second doorgun to ch47.
- ch47 doorgun was not working, fixed.
- ch47 cargo proxys are too low, fixed.
- vc sapper ak47/rpg7 cfgmagazine error, fixed.
Be sure that if you are "new" VTE user, you first install the full 10-05-07 release, then hotfix 2 and finally this hotfix 3. Otherwise you will get corrup install. If you are old user from full+hotfix 2, then you only install this latest hotfix 3 and its updated.

Download hotfix 3 - 5.6mb.
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dandixie

Post by dandixie » 2007-10-13, 03:39:26 PM

PLEASE HELPP HOW TO INSTALL VTE ????
WRITE A STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTION OF INSTALL ??? THANKSSS

Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-13, 04:13:54 PM

No need to yell.

To install do this:

1) unrar the full release into any dir, then move the "vte" dir into your ArmA directory.
2) unrar the hotfix 2 into the "vte" dir, run the hotfix 2.
3) unrar the hotfix 3 into the "vte" dir, run the hotfix 3.
Done!

Now you have VTE installed. If you have any specific questions just ask.
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dandixie

Post by dandixie » 2007-10-13, 05:53:47 PM

THNKSSSSS SNAKE!! SEE YOU IN FLIGHT I HOPE....

Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-30, 09:12:01 AM

New hotfix 4 is out now!

Changelog

Code: Select all

--- fixes: hotfix 4
- huey controls are way too sensitive, difficult to fly. twkead a bit.
- most of the weapon sounds updated.
- more specific weapon recoils added.
- changed to more realistic running and sprinting speeds.
- high dispersion weapon configuration added.
- ah1g had broken turret/gunner view, fixed.
- No get in gunner point in ah1j, fixed.
- ah1j had broken turret/gunner view, fixed.
- In Vehicle: ah1j.p3d missing driver get in direction point, fixed.
- No get in gunner point in ah1g, fixed.
- added infantry categories to mission editor.
- added respawn weapons / gear, same as default weapons / gear.
- muzzle flashes were visible all the time on many vehicles, fixed.
- clan signs (default bis) were visible all the time, fixed.
- adjust smoke shells to last longer. now its about 50-55 sec, fixed to 150secs.
- added white, red, green, violet and yellow VTE smokeshells.
- m60 door gun sound is "global", meaning can be heard far far away, fixed.
- changed oh6 picture/icon images to the air.pbo ones.
- oh6 has uh1 engine sound now, fixed.
- lssc proxys aligned wrong, fixed.
- c130 and mc130 didn't have animated gear, fixed.
- f4 phantoms didn't have animated gear, fixed.
- c130 and mc130 didn't have animated ailerons, elevators or flaps, fixed.
- f4 phantoms didn't have animated ailerons, elevators or flaps, fixed.
- changed VTE_Mounted_M60 to load up 500 rnds magazines (huey doorgun box).
- changed huey/ch47 doorguns to be loaded with single 500rnd box.
- added ZSU-57 using shilka placeholder.
- added m163 vulcan for US Army.
- added m113 ambulance for US Army.
- added support trucks for US Army and NVA.
- added trucks for US Army, NVA and VC.
- oh6a right gunner, gunner view was locked, fixed.
- added Ithaca shotgun with configuration to the proper units.
- added k98k with configuration to the proper unit.
- added Sten SD with configuration to the proper units.
- added ppd40 with configuration to the proper units.
- added mp40 with configuration to the proper units.
- added Mas36 with configuration to the proper unit.
Be sure that if you are "new" VTE user, you first install the full 10-05-07 release, then hotfix 2, hotfix 3 and finally this hotfix 4. Otherwise you will get corrup install. If you are old user from full + hotfix 2 + hotfix 3, then you only install this latest hotfix 4 and its updated.

Download hotfix 4 - 8.6mb.
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NeF
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Post by NeF » 2007-10-30, 10:26:21 AM

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOt ! Thanks snake !
They train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "Fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-30, 11:45:45 AM

Okay as I'm dumbass I of course forgot to mention that yes, this hotfix now includes the ACH-47A Gunship with 5 door gunners with .50cal machine guns and pilot has 20mm machine gun, 40mm grenade launcher and 2.75" FFAR rockets available.

Also I want to warn everyone that while this is better in big picture than the old version, there is (still) alot of broken things, like the ACH-47A has the gunner views totally not working (just use 3rd person view to aim) and the new Skyraider didn't make into this release but still the old one is not with animated gear/flaps even as other planes like F4 and C130 got fixed.

However there is many fixes which I personally like and wanted to see in MP, as each time I played lately I was annoyed by the issues.

Oh and I guess I promised this release to be full install, well heheh I couldn't dare to put it out as full as I could squeeze it to 8mb and lesson learn from that... I'm not going to give any statements of what the next release will be :)

Anyways, I'm really eager to go hunt down enemies in ACH-47A now to see how its firepower changes the battlefield. Also I have nice long persistent mission to be tested etc. I cant wait to meet you guys on the server, is going to be all good ;)
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Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-30, 12:24:45 PM

Sorry... had to do "emergency re-upload" for the hotfix 4 as in the first MP session I discovered one serious bug which was just 1 line config fix.

If you were really early to see this hotfix 4 and downloaded it before I posted the above message, then please redownload.

Local time of this upload is GMT 1225hrs. (I think heh). Anyways if you're in doubt... re-download, easy.
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Post by hanky » 2007-11-07, 03:31:58 AM

I am slightly confused about installation. Do we just create a vte directory in the ArmA directory to apply hotfixes then copy the patched PBOs over to the ArmA addons folder? Or what?

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-11-07, 11:06:29 AM

Check out Install Help page for the OFP version. Of course the common directory is not used now, neither is the -nomap parameter, otherwise that instruction page helps you through the MOD dir installation.
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Post by hanky » 2007-11-07, 04:36:31 PM

Thanks, figured it out. Looking at the stuff in the library was pretty cool.

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Post by kutya » 2007-11-12, 06:26:49 PM

Greets!

It's been a while. I'm greatly occupied by RL, so not much (if any) activity from me lately. But ArmA VTE warms my heart :) I'm thinking about making some simple missions as a warmup for my (one and only uber mega) Vietnam campaign. I didn't have the time to make it for OFP, but since the winter is coming, I may have some more time. Maybe. I've written the story a while ago and only mission details are remaining. But before I make it, I'm thinking about making an island for it and replacing the (currently available) objects with new ones as VTE evolves.

So, to make it short: for start I could make a couple of missions for the current version of VTE. If I get warmed up, I could make some short '70s sounding guitar sounds, which would IMO sound nice in key moments in missions.

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-11-12, 06:41:01 PM

kutya wrote:Greets!
Good to see you kutya.
I'm thinking about making an island for it and replacing the (currently available) objects with new ones as VTE evolves.
Hmm now you got me confused, I dont understand what you mean, eh well I do understand but it makes no sense... you assume that the current 400+ ground objects are just placeholders and we are going to re-create all of that in the future, well that ain't going to happen. We surely are tweaking the objects, no question about it, but to re-create then, no way. But I'm 100% sure that was not what you meant. I italic and bolded what I understand you saying, as nobody uses "object" name for units or vehicles, so perhaps you meant the BIS units that definitely are placeholders now?
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Post by kutya » 2007-11-12, 07:01:01 PM

Sorry, I thought about the vegetation. Objects (like buildings, bases, etc.)are ok, but IMO the vegetation could use some tweaking (at least). Yup, for units, it's obvious.

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-11-14, 08:10:38 AM

New mirror added to the first post, greetings to Aussie Dave.
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Post by Aussie Dave » 2007-11-14, 09:26:20 AM

i really miss vietcong :cry:

this is looking good :)

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-11-23, 09:32:27 AM

Unless our server stats & my calculations are incorrect... VTE 10-05-07 full install was downloaded 2050 times from the main mirror. Now thats what I call interest for Vietnam mod ;)

In these words, this topic is closed. Check out Pre Alpha release 11-23-07 topic for new release and further discussions.
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