Post your questions about CATE here

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-13 08:49:00

Apparently, CATE has been released and is now in the download area.

So, since I'm guilty for this utility

, if you have any question about CATE, post it here and I'll answer it (at least, I'll try

)

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-13 16:21:00

How did it get such a kewl name?

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-13 16:28:00

I don't quite remember ...

IIRC, I picked a word randomly among the huge amount of meaningless posts some orange dinosaur does at Frugal's world, or something like that ...

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-13 16:43:00

Neat - he sounds like a really great guy!

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-15 23:14:00

You think we'll be soon able to have a version of CATE that doesn't require VBasic to run? Or will that require a total rewrite?

---
Costas "Quicksilver" Stoupakis

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-16 01:29:00

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
You think we'll be soon able to have a version of CATE that doesn't require VBasic to run?

It does not require Visual Basic, not sure if it needs the one 137kb comdlg32.ocx file but that you can download from many places I hear.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-16 09:11:00

Nope. What CATE asks for is a file called "vb6fr.dll". Yet, after downloading and copying it to my windows/system folder, I then get another weird error message.

Any ideas?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-16 11:37:00

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
I then get another weird error message.

Okie dokie... well I haven't knowingly installed Visual Basic 6 and it runs nicely on my system. There is no vb6fr.dll in my windows at all btw

You will get confirmation from Skyfire next week.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Ender Wiggin · Post by **Ender Wiggin** » 2002-03-16 18:11:00

How well is it working on large theatres?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-17 00:08:00

quote:Originally posted by Ender Wiggin:
How well is it working on large theatres?

CATE works great on 128 theaters.

Takes couple of minutes to process ODS terrain file.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-18 08:21:00

Quicksilver,

CATE does not require you to have Visual Basic to run, but it does require Visual Basic runtime files (comdlg32.ocx included).

So, do a quick search on Internet for "Visual Basic 6 runtime files", and you'll come up with a lot of sites that will allow you to download these files.

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-18 17:54:00

Ok, a serious question from me (please try not to fall out of your chair laughing).

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2002-03-18 18:04:00

open up terrainview
goto a segment
and double clickon a tile

you'll see X1 X2 X3 there

X2 and X3 are not too important (AFAIK now..

)
just run 'compute normals' in terrainview and that will generate the right values for these 2 Xfactors

now use Cate to manipulate the normal to the color of the terrain... X1

I will explain this on a later time
as finding the normal to the color of the tile is quite a process.
basically light tiles need a low X1 value
dark tiles need a high X1 value
(ranging from 0 to 255)

for instance
Iceland water needs X1=254
ODS light dessert needs X1=3
Iceland snow needs X1=1
Iceand rock needs 1=233
etc

if you don't seek for these values the all will be set to 254 standard by either julian scripts or Miran's Dem2lf.exe

the X1 value prevents banding on the terrain
i will show some screenies soon to
let ya'll see what i mean
and also creates a depth/lighting effect..

Widmak

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-18 18:23:00

Wow.

Those Microprose programmers thought of everything, huh. For as buggy as F4 was when released, it seems like those none of what the community has done would have been possible if they hadn't done a great job of laying the foundation.

Thanks, Wid!

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-18 19:00:00

When I load the conf file, should the list of rules appear in the little window?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-18 23:20:00

quote:Originally posted by T_Rex:
When I load the conf file, should the list of rules appear in the little window?

Yes, active rules are listed in the window.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-19 04:16:00

So...if the window stays blank, then I've managed to screw something up?

Yeah, that's about par for the course for me.

I'll try again tomorrow.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-19 08:46:00

T-Rex :

I'm impressed : two real serious questions !

Seriously, yes, the rules of your conf file should appear in the box.

But, if they don't appear, you should have a message saying that CATE found something unusual in the conf file.

I know no way for the box to stay empty without a warning message.

So, only ideas I have for now are :

- All your rules are commented out (lines beginiing by #)

- You did not load the rule file (you clicked on Cancel instead of Open).

- Your default text color is the same than the backgound of the box. Try some selection with your mouse and look if you see some highlighted text.

BTW : which version do you have ?

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-19 15:30:00

Hmmm... ver 3.12.

Do the rules appear when I load CATE or when I load the L2?

Here's the (what I thought was) simple ruleset:

[Ruleset 1]
Color=-1,-1,-1
#
ForceFog=* * *
#
TileRule=1 500 (*) (1764) * * * *
TileRule=501 1000 (*) (1880) * * * *
TileRule=1001 3000 (*) (68) * * * *
TileRule=3001 5000 (*) (689-694) * * * *
TileRule=5001 50000 (*) (1862-1865) * * * *
#
[End]

How big of an idiot am I?

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-19 15:36:00

First, the rules will appear when you load the conf file (first Browse buttons on top of the window).

Second, IIRC (conf files have changed since version 3.12), you rules should look like that :

[Rules: Ruleset 1]
Color=-1,-1,-1
#
ForceFog=* * *
#
TileRule=1 500 (*) (1764) * * * *
TileRule=501 1000 (*) (1880) * * * *
TileRule=1001 3000 (*) (68) * * * *
TileRule=3001 5000 (*) (689-694) * * * *
TileRule=5001 50000 (*) (1862-1865) * * * *
#
[EndRules ruleset 1]

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-19 16:22:00

COOLNESS!

Its working (both getting to this site and CATE).

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-20 18:56:00

Ok, new issue using the BMP conversion thing (very cool, BTW).

I have an area of dry land, near to but not adjacent to open water, that has a zero elevation. I want to raise it so its above zero and tile it with some desert tile. Here's what I politely asked CATE to do:

[Rules: Eastern side 0ft = 100ft Rules]
Color=255,0,99
#
ForceFog=* * *
#
TileRule=-10 500 (*) (1789,1790) * * * f100
#
[Endrules]

Where 255,0,99 is the color in the BMP where the area is. I load the .conf, and confirm the rules are what I planned. When I run CATE, she tells me that she's changed a bunch of tiles (.15% - its not that big of an area) and then I save. When I open up the new L2, it does not appear that anything has changed. The altitudes are unchanged.

I actually got this color-coding thing to work with another area, so I know I'm doing the mechanics of it right (getting the colors right, etc.)

Any ideas?

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-21 08:53:00

As I said to you in a PM at Frugal's, I think that comes from a SnakeMan's idea, who asked me to remove ocean tiles from BMP rules (so that you don't have to fine tune your BMP to avoid ocean tiles).

However, if your tiles are not ocean, but only have 0 altitude, there's something not normal.

More on this after I have checked the code.

Regards.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-21 09:49:00

OK, I checked the code : CATE only ignores tiles with tile number 0 (when applying BMP rules).

So, what are your tile numbers there ?

Regards.

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2002-03-21 11:52:00

Snakeman and I discussed the offset 0 thing
so we we would not accidentally tile sea
therefor we requested offset0 to be left alone

I guess Trex problem is a piece of land wich is under sea level
Dem2lf makes it sea ofset 0 automatically
(Holland .. some part of California..etc are under sea level and)

We haven't taken that into account
and now Trex has problem

maybey you can make a 0 offset on/off line in the cfg for these rare instances???

btw CATE rock..

I'm currentle in the process of creating 400-800 genric tileds for region bmp tiling
i hope to have finnished itwithin 2 weeks

Widmak

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-21 14:06:00

[SF - sorry to post so many places, but after you went offline yesterday, I posted here to see if someone else knew the answer-sorry.]

Maybe make the "ignore tile 0" routine based on the use of the BMP, so that when you use a BMP, it could be disabled. It was pretty easy to "fill" the area I wanted to raise. Worst case is that it remains the same as it was before CATE - just a matter of replacing all the 0 tiles in the relatively small area I need to do.

[Heck, I'm just glad I didn't screw up the syntax of something stupid!]

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-21 22:37:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
Quicksilver,

CATE does not require you to have Visual Basic to run, but it does require Visual Basic runtime files (comdlg32.ocx included).

Thanks Skyfire. That did the trick (along with getting the latest version of CATE)

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-22 00:35:00

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Is it necessary to merge all these into a single .tdf file, or is there some way CATE can work with multiple files? Will simply applying each .tdf file seperately, one at a time, do the trick?

You can run them seperately if I'm right. Haven't tested that though, let us know if the results are somewhat different.

Also don't go too hard on configuring the files yet, CATE development is taking quantum leaps each day and each day I make new and improved conf files only to get newer CATE version bit later which totally pukes on my cool conf files.

Right now my CATE dir contains v3.23beta3 and if everything works well I'm receiving new version again in the morning. I haven't keep up with the versions on adding them to the downloads ... as its so fast developing util.

There will be CATE pages added into the tutorials with the "latest" version soon, this should give some rough idea for people who get are amazed by the readl2 util area's 260+ posts and refuse to read them

Stay tuned, CATEpillar is coming to town!

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-22 08:21:00

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Thanks Skyfire. That did the trick (along with getting the latest version of CATE)

Hi, Quicksilver, I'm glad you can finally run CATE

No, you don't have to merge all TDF files into one.

You just put as many TDFFileNames rules as you want, and CATE will read all the files whose name you provide in these rules.

Don't forget that the TDF files should have correct Carriage Return + Line Feed "end-of-line", though.

Regards.

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-29 20:22:00

Hey, another question...
...actually, more like a call for help!

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-29 21:06:00

Here is my example files which I used for European (default tileset) terrain.

CateAB.Europe.Conf

ABFileName=D:\F4Terrain\misc\CATE\csv\euroa3.csv

[AirbasesDef]
AirbaseDef=1 0 -1 1 1 (01_19,05_23,32_14,34_16,36_18)
AirbaseDef=2 -1 0 1 1 (08_26,11_29,12_30,21_03,23_05,26_08,30_12)
AirbaseDef=3 0 -1 1 1 (02_20,20_02)
[EndAirbases]

[TerrainFeatures: Default]
Airbase=1 HI (1050,1051,1048,1049,1046,1047)
Airbase=2 HI (1043,1044,1045,1040,1041,1042)
Airbase=3 HI (1043,1044,1045,1040,1041,1042)
[EndTerrainFeatures Default]

[TerrainFeatures: dry_farm]
TerrainType=1
TerrainTiles=(48,112-125,384-397)
Airbase=1 HI (954,955,952,953,950,951)
Airbase=2 HI (931,932,933,928,929,930)
Airbase=3 HI (954,955,952,953,950,951)
[EndTerrainFeatures dry_farm]

[TerrainFeatures: forest]
TerrainType=2
TerrainTiles=(64-78,272-286,288-302)
Airbase=1 HI (628,629,626,627,624,625)
Airbase=2 HI (931,932,933,928,929,930)
Airbase=3 HI (1492,1493,1490,1491,1488,1489)
[EndTerrainFeatures forest]

# EOF

CateFeat.Europe.Conf

TDFFileName=D:\F4Terrain\misc\cate\csv\tdfclean.EUROPE.tdf

[TerrainFeatures: Default]
RoadBaseTile=112
RiverBaseTile=183
CityBaseTile=207
RoadOffsets=14 13 1 0 3 5 10 6 7 4 8 2 9 11 12
CityOffsets=7 12 10 3 9 13 6 1 14 4 11 2 5 8 113
RiverOffsets=210 211 201 209 206 204 212 214 207 203 208 202 205 213 215
Bridges=369 372
[EndTerrainFeatures default]

[TerrainFeatures: WetFarm]
TerrainType=1
TerrainTiles=(160,176-190,405,406,408-509)
RoadBaseTile=176
RiverBaseTile=496
CityBaseTile=207
RoadOffsets=11 12 4 14 5 0 6 7 3 1 9 2 10 8 13
CityOffsets=7 12 10 3 9 13 6 1 14 4 11 2 5 8 113
RiverOffsets=11 9 4 0 6 1 10 12 3 2 8 5 13 7 7
Bridges=405 406
[EndTerrainFeatures WetFarm]

[TerrainFeatures: Forest]
TerrainType=2
TerrainTiles=(68,240-254,416-423,288-302,272-286,464-494)
RoadBaseTile=288
RiverBaseTile=272
CityBaseTile=480
RoadOffsets=13 8 6 5 0 1 12 4 7 2 11 3 9 10 14
CityOffsets=0 11 10 12 8 4 5 6 7 9 13 14 3 2 1
RiverOffsets=10 11 1 12 0 3 9 6 5 4 7 2 13 8 14
Bridges=129 136
[EndTerrainFeatures Forest]

# EOF

CateTrans.Europe.Conf

DoTransitions=OK

[TerrainFeatures: Farm]
TerrainType=1
TerrainTiles=(32-46,48,64-67,69-78)
TransitionDef=ToOcean (0) (39,41,42,43,44,46,34,35,45,40,32,36,38,37,33)
TransitionDef=ToForest (68) (72,73,76,66,75,77,71,64,78,67,74,65,69,70,68)
[EndTerrainFeatures Farm]

#[TerrainFeatures: City_Farm]
#TerrainType=1
#TerrainTiles=(48,112-126,208-319,369,372,384-397)
#TransitionDef=CityToFarm (320) (214,219,217,210,216,220,213,208,220,211,218,209,212,215,320)
#[EndTerrainFeatures City_Farm]

#[TerrainFeatures: City_Forest]
#TerrainType=1
#TerrainTiles=(64-78,129,136,272-286,288-302,480-489)
#TransitionDef=CityToForest (490) (492,483,484,480,488,491,493,485,494,481,489,486,482,487,490)
#[EndTerrainFeatures City_Forest]

# EOF

Hope that helps.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-30 16:03:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
Hope that helps.

Hey, if it works, it works.

Thanks a bunch SM, I'll plug all this in right away.

-EDIT- Hmm, I hope you don't have any copyright claims for using these files... getting T-Bone's approval for the name itself sounded messy enough...

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-31 14:44:00

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
Hey, if it works, it works. Thanks a bunch SM, I'll plug all this in right away.

It was first the transitions and then features of what I did, lastly airbases... let me know how you make them work out.

quote:I hope you don't have any copyright claims for using these files...

Copyright?

quote:getting T-Bone's approval for the name itself sounded messy enough...

Now you totally lost me... T-Bone? name?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Quicksilver · Post by **Quicksilver** » 2002-03-31 19:46:00

Aaargh! Stupid typos!

quote:Originally posted by Quicksilver:
getting T-Bone's approval for the name itself sounded messy enough...

T-Rex, that's who I meant, about the name "CATE" that he came up with... wasn't there a thread around here with T-Rex joking about retiring to Southern France with the money he would made from the royalties from the name "CATE"?

Aw, heck, I think I made a fool out of myself again. I ought to stick to flying Falcon, instead of trying to make cute jokes...

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-31 21:21:00

Heh ok stop joking and tell how did the conf files work?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-04-02 08:57:00

Hi again, Quicksilver

Thanks for the info about the problem in the ReadMe, I'll look at it.

Besides, a new version is on its way :

- Features definitions have been completly rewriten, and should be easier to understand.

- Transitions have been enhanced and modified

- You can save a bitmap of your theater. Only thing left to do with that is find a way to show altitudes. Any hint for a rule about modifying R,G,B colors following altitude will be welcome

- Rivers are a little less messy (nothing spectacular though)

I intend to include in the ReadMe a full example with screenshots about how I tiled Vietnam.

Regards.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-02 11:53:00

Can we divide the CATE release package for like exe + conf files and docs. Its so cool to quickly grab the few kilobytes sized new version.

At least until we get good solid "full" version of CATE, you should make different package for docs so we don't need to leech them over and over again with small updates to exe.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-02 11:56:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
find a way to show altitudes. Any hint for a rule about modifying R,G,B colors following altitude

Well we can define everything right now, don't we?

Road RGB color
River RGB color
City RGB color
Airbase? RGB color
ocean (hehe) RGB color

Altitudes like:
1-500 RGB color whatever
501-3000 RGB color whatever
3001-9000 RGB color whatever
etc

That would be great.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-04-02 12:46:00

CATE 4.00 is on its way

) is 6.2 MB ...

Yep, I could send only the exe but this time, there are really too many changes.

About the BMP, I was more thinking about something automatic in CATE ... no ?

Regards.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-02 12:59:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
About the BMP, I was more thinking about something automatic in CATE ... no ?

Automatic... as in default values for the things I mentioned in previous post?

PMC TFW
Snake Man