Harrier and F18 pit by F4A in progress!

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-06 12:31:00

http://www.just-saitek.com/f4alliance/index.html

Great news!
and too bad Vnam need a phantom pit

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-06 13:18:00

Yeah, what else is new. Who cares about some aircraft cockpit that almost has its own THEATER... ? not me at least. sigh

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-06 13:35:00

I just browsed the F4Alliance site, there is no mention of Vietnam.

Hmm, have I done something to offend the F4A guys because they seem to mention every other theater except Vietnam, which is funny because our progress chart is just behind Balkans right now with tiling almost complete etc.

Well whatever, maybe they know it better... maybe it sucks so much its not even worth one word... not to mention one cockpit.

Heheh tough luck buddy.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-06 14:00:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake_Man:
I Hmm, have I done something to offend the F4A guys because they seem to mention every other theater except Vietnam, which is funny because our progress chart is just behind Balkans right now with tiling almost complete etc.
Well whatever, maybe they know it better... maybe it sucks so much its not even worth one word... not to mention one cockpit.
Heheh tough luck buddy.
PMC TFW
Snake Man

No, not your fault, nor F4A.
Man, F4A members are not obligated to support anything. I once being there.
F4A projects are proposed by some members, and could be carried out by others. their organization is loose, or fluid.
for example, there could be one or two "core- member" for one pit, with few artists supporting him.
So, if no volunteer start such a project, there wont be a F4A phantom pit.
However, they've discussed it months ago, suppose lots photo collected.

BTW I note their harrier pit is latest model, probably good for ODS or Balkans. need some tweak for historical falklands.

hehe just found some phantom sounds from MSFS resources...

my 2c, Man, the first priority is get RPG support. we can add pit later, but cant live with lethal AAMs, bad FMs and loadouts in Vnam!

[This message has been edited by ccc (edited February 06, 2001).]

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-06 16:33:00

err..the phantom panels from free MSFS resources suck!
sound files ok.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-06 17:40:00

All we got is money.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-07 00:46:00

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
No, not your fault, nor F4A.
Man, F4A members are not obligated to support anything. I once being there.

I absolutely understand that, that was not my point. My point is, how its possible to leave out mention of one of the most advanced theater (after Balkans) build for Falcon 4? anyways.. blah, what do I care.

I'm building my theaters for myself, if nobody wants to fly them... I dont care, if everybody loves them... so what, I dont get any money from these. I build these because these are the theaters I want to fly and fight a war.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-07 01:25:00

Hmm.. i dont know, if F4A got no Vnam-related projects at hand, its reasonable they didnt mention Vnam theater.

Come on Man, I ALWAYS want a Vnam theater!

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-07 02:29:00

If we can't get someone to help us, maybe we could do it ourselves,a daunting task. Would need photoshop, which i don't have, but here's the Xis guide

Don't know what else we could do, but to my knowledge the silkman and xis are the only ones who could do it. Maybe they could throw us a bone on a semi-detailed pit, that wouldn't consume so much time to make.

www.frugalsworld.com/falcon4/cockpit.shtml

[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited February 07, 2001).]

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-07 03:26:00

Honestly, if somebody could take good photos, we can cut-n-paste them for all views.
I've searched such pics for a while..my conclusion is, we need somebody go to the museum, take fresh pics we want. thats the easiest way to make phantom pit(maybe add WSO pit).
Then we can ask 3d artists to detail these pic later.
BTW, the avonics need SC hacking, its another issue though.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-07 04:21:00

F15C pit in the making too

http://www.delphi.com/falcon4/messages/?msg=15373.1

well Rhino post on that thread too.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-07 12:01:00

I could take photo's with a digital camera. I will look into where i need to visit. I can get you that. Take a look at these pics.
www.pirtle.org/F-4%20Pictures.html

[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited February 07, 2001).]

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-07 13:37:00

quote:Originally posted by brewskie:
I could take photo's with a digital camera. I will look into where i need to visit. I can get you that. Take a look at these pics.

OK, be sure to take pics of right model of phantom.
BTW, just remind you we need straight views as those in viper pit. better located your point of view at pilot's sight.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-07 17:27:00

ccc, it looks like i would have to fly out to the usaf's museum at wright-patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio. I'll have to book a flight to go, it's too far for me to drive. Take a look through the website, see what interests you, lets do everything in one single trip.
If there are things F4A wants, i'll get it for them, but like i said, this will be one trip only.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf49.htm

more images i found.
http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chrisman/f4cockpt.htm

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-07 20:36:00

I must say this sounds great. Even if you cant find F-4E Phantom, just take any photos you can from F-4 cockpit. its better to have some cockpit than nothing at all. The cut-and-paste method CCC mentioned works for us ok, if someone comes bitching that it sucks... we can always direct them bitch to a f4a

Any chance of catching B-52's on the trip btw?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-07 22:28:00

B-52, sure if they give me access.
Something big like the buff, you should be able to go inside and look around, but we shall see.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-07 23:37:00

brewskie:
1.better contact museum first, make sure you can sit in the pit to take photos.
2.illumination factor is important for good pics. dont overexpose with flash lights.
3.if you can sit in those pits and take pics, then take all nam era a/c.
4.post your trip on major forum, maybe somebody live around there. or some guys want to build similar pits. just to avoid duplication of effort.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-08 09:42:00

Hey Brewskie,
====================
CAUTION: The F-4 cockpit can be cramped and quite difficult for large people to enter and exit. For that reason, this "SIT IN" exhibit is best suited for children. Children should be carefully supervised at all times.
=====================

any chance to contact museum volunteers for pics?

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-08 13:10:00

I'll ask first, I think this won't be a problem. I'll give them a call maybe tomorrow. It was made for fighter pilots, that's my size. Hmmm, might have to make a trip out of it with my girlfriend if i cant fit.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-08 14:02:00

Alright, be sure to check what views we need, and take all of them in one trip.
dont forget those WSO views too.

DIMVASSIL · Post by **DIMVASSIL** » 2001-02-08 16:01:00

I would like to inform you that many F4A members are collecting pictures for F-4E
& F-4G Cockpits. Nobody forgets the Vnam theater.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-09 02:23:00

Certainly sounds encouraging F4A.
Aussies were in this war too.
Two Dogs of War.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-10 10:43:00

brewskie,
that shot is great for debriefing screen! though i've built one for nam already.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-10 10:49:00

DIMVASSIL,
thanx for the info.
but nobody working on it, right?
well, anyway froglips is working on Fishbed pit, thats good news for NAM too.

Tex · Post by **Tex** » 2001-02-12 01:01:00

Hi guys,

I started playing with a F-4E pit. I Have a front cockpit line art layout that I found so i'm using that to define the part sizes.

I found good pictures for reference but I don't have the rear cockpit in line art.

I plan on constructing it in ACAD (that's what I know) and then I can export it to either 3DS so I can render it or just render the image(s) I need from within ACAD.

Really preliminary right now

but didn't see anyone else doing it and I had the references so....!

I'd like to try a Tomcat as well, that's a great jet but i'll start with the F-4 'cause I have that info now.

Any help/info would be appreciated!

Tex

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-12 03:59:00

Tex,
Great to hear you're working on it.
if we got more pics, you'll learn here.
BTW, about the lineart of backseater? dunno if MSFS pit could do, i noted there is a phantom pit art(front and back) at Microwing. not detailed though.
Hope we can get some high-quality, ready-for-use photos, so cut-n-paste for this pit!

as for Tomcat pit, Merlin has done one. are you going to build a variant?

Tex · Post by **Tex** » 2001-02-12 08:34:00

Do you have a link for the line art at MicroWings, CCC? I'm not familiar with that site and got a little lost!

I've got quite a few pics of the G model Phantom but the line art I have is for the E model. They're both pretty close to one another so I'll use a little creative license to make it come out okay! I have pictures of the back seat cockpit also but it would be helpful to get a lineart drawing of the correct model. I did have one of the D model but they're not even close. I suppose it would give me the general dimensions and I could swing it for placement from the pictures? dunno, sounds like work.

I have no idea about the Tomcat. I'd like to do the B model which is what is in F4. If I do, it will be from scratch like i'm doing with the Phantom. I'll already have a collection of guages, knobs and what-not already made so it'll go a *little* quicker (maybe!).

Thanks,
Tex

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-12 10:54:00

http://www.microwings.com/

i think its microwing store? or some download link there.

Tex, its a MSFS panel pack, front and back seat for phantom. my 2c, that pack just give you a very rough idea of backseater pit layout. im afraid its too rough for serious pit-making.
looking for better lineart, we'd better search magazine/book or other published material.

Tex · Post by **Tex** » 2001-02-13 00:06:00

Thanks ccc,

Appreciate the help. I'll keep looking around and see if there is anything that I can use.

If you see anything that you think may be of benefit you can contact me at falcon4tex@netscape.net

Thanks again,
Tex

Aeyes · Post by **Aeyes** » 2001-02-18 14:44:00

Brewsky, if you can make some good pics it will def increase speed of Pantom cockpit development.
If i may add something to the discussion here from a cockpit editor's view, please take shots with daylight if possible.
Don't use flashlight, take a series of snaps overlapping eachother from a pilots and WSO's view (360 dgs and sitting in the pit)
Take snaps of a 90 dgs angle of each panel in detail and from a pilots view in detail.
That should do the trick.

Furthermore, within F4A, Theseas i believe is working on a F4 cockpit already, but haven't seen screens yet so i don't know how far he got sofar.

If the pictures you make turn out good, i am willing to help out setting the pit up where ever i can, or maybe help in bundling strenght to get the Phantompit on the road eeerrr in the air

Btw, what type of Phantom are you guys after? the B C D E?
The F4D is i believe well used in Nam.
The museum you wanted to go is a F4B. and refurbished? (wonder how far that went modelwise)
Those 2 pics at that site you mentioned before, http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chrisman/f4cockpt.htm are from a F4E simulator at Seymour Johnson and was disabled in 1990.
I suppose it has many similarities with other models but many times simulators are way different too.
I have those pics but larger and the downside is the WSO's office is almost unusable due to different lighting and limited view. The good thing about it is that it shows well how the cockpit lighting was done including the instruments.
We definetly need better pics than that to get this pit in game.

About avionics, some things can easily be converted, but other things are not goin to be easy, for example the combined ADI and compass, wich is separated in the F-16 therefor Falcon4.0
I am sure there is much more before to find before it will be aproaching realism, but anything is better than the USAF F4 pits that are available now.
Anyway, if you guys need a hand i am willing to help out

Aeyes
F4Alliance

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-18 19:47:00

F4A,Aeyes,ccc,tex,snakeman,
do you guys have these?
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/A ... f4g_cp.htm

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-19 03:47:00

ya, i've visited there a while ago.

what we need is the photos ready for cut-n-pasting. Aeyes' right, dont use flash lamp while taking pics.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-20 00:12:00

Okay i'm definetly going. Looks like we also need
detailed pics of the switches,buttons, ect..

Aeyes · Post by **Aeyes** » 2001-02-20 02:51:00

I have been playing around with a center view of a F4 a bit, just for starters

It's not up to standard, that will take quite a bit longer, but nice for a change of the USAF pit. Stuff is working in it, sofar the HUD,RWR,MFD,ALTimeter,and clock.

Downloadable at: Aeyes's Falcon4 components

[This message has been edited by Aeyes (edited February 20, 2001).]

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-20 03:13:00

Aeyes,
where's the pit files?

BTW, where're your Mirage2000 pit pics?

Aeyes · Post by **Aeyes** » 2001-02-20 03:19:00

Wow CCC u r quick.
For the pitfiles u have to click the screenshot pic on my site, and the Mirage is in development

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-20 04:27:00

hehe im watching your move!

and ya, you just do the right thing i want to say, move phantom pit talks to Vnam forum. thanx.

BTW, brewski, we still need high-quality photos to cut-n-paste. below is a good example, i "borrowed" from MSFS free resources. photo author unknown.

ya, simply few minutes, and it done. of course i didnt edit mfd position yet. as you can see, good pics make thing easier! (if only we could have all views..make sure you take all pics we need, 12 up/level/down, 2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10 o'clock....)

PS: this av8 pit is a test sample, for fun.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-22 22:52:00

Confirmed flight out of White Plains to
Dayton on March 9th, back on the 10th in
evening. Keep up the good work F4A.

Froglips · Post by **Froglips** » 2001-03-08 12:30:00

Snakeman,
Sheesh, I gotta read the forum more often. No slight was intended. Blame an overworked, underpaid webmaster (me). It is entirely my fault.

I am trying to keep up with all the goings on in the F4 community and built a Fishbed for your theater and write a manual for various other projects and support the RP5 testing and and and....

I am redoing the F4A website for March and you guys will get prominant mention. I have your theater installed and enjoy it a great deal.

One request. Is there an email distribution that will keep me better informed than my puny efforts over the last four months? I missed this email because I just didn't read this thread. The Balkan and ME theater get better 'coverage' because I know what is going on without having to dig for the info. Sorry again just doesn't seem to be enough time in the day.

Froggie

quote:Originally posted by Snake_Man:
I just browsed the F4Alliance site, there is no mention of Vietnam.

Hmm, have I done something to offend the F4A guys because they seem to mention every other theater except Vietnam, which is funny because our progress chart is just behind Balkans right now with tiling almost complete etc.

Well whatever, maybe they know it better... maybe it sucks so much its not even worth one word... not to mention one cockpit.

Heheh tough luck buddy.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-03-08 15:44:00

quote:Originally posted by Froglips:
One request. Is there an email distribution that will keep me better informed than my puny efforts over the last four months? I missed this email because I just didn't read this thread. The Balkan and ME theater get better 'coverage' because I know what is going on without having to dig for the info. Sorry again just doesn't seem to be enough time in the day.

Hey no problem.
Sometimes forums get flamed being dead because of no messages, then again in situation like this if busy guy like you wants just some news facts but needs to read hundreds of slightly interesting posts to gather the important data.

So active posting is not necessarily good thing

Ok I'm glad to keep you informed about any newsworthy stuff on Vietnam, Desert Storm and F4ME MidEast. If you just leave me your email (possibly send me an email to nospam) that I can contact you.

PMC TFW
Snake Man