Flight Model

Terrain / Theater editing

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Snake Man
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Flight Model

Post by Snake Man » 2007-07-10, 10:29:29 AM

I'm looking for information about Flight Models. Just recently program called Doghouse was mentioned in our forum, does anyone know where I can download this util?

Where is flight model data stored (which files)?

Is there any tutorials or other info available?

Any and all flight model editing information is highly appreciated.
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ccc
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Post by ccc » 2007-07-10, 10:46:04 AM

I'm looking for information about Flight Models. Just recently program called Doghouse was mentioned in our forum, does anyone know where I can download this util?
Julian creates it. as he's the lead dev in LP today, better ask him.
i don't think this tool belongs to "freeware" as those released in old SP days. just ask Julian first.

Where is flight model data stored (which files)?
in falcon4 zip folder, simdata.zip.
Is there any tutorials or other info available?
you may needs some aeronautic books and pulbic FM charts.

i_hawk
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Post by i_hawk » 2007-07-10, 10:48:08 AM

AC FMs can be found inside Zip/simdata.zip/sim/ACDATA

There you will find a .dat file for each plane which you can edit with notepad...

Also, if you unzip the simdata file to main directory (creating the inner sim folder there), all files there will override the same files existing in simdata.zip... means you can edit this files straight from the folder with no need to zip/unzip each time you change something and want to test it.

The .dat files themselves holds not only flight data but also lots of other data with variables. At least that's true for BMS based versions like RV and OF.

AFAIK best resource for FMs variables in F4 should be the RP5 manual. You can also find some interesting data on the other variables introduced by BMS back then, here on this thread:

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/show ... hp?t=71289
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Snake Man
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-07-10, 03:08:06 PM

Hmm interesting, no wonder there is only few mentions about Doghouse util in the forums. Thanks guys for the initial information you provided, it gives me direction to go.

I guess getting the RP5 manual would be the next thing.

Are you guys saying that editing flight models is ... difficult task? Whos the flight model "expert" in RV and OF?
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Post by i_hawk » 2007-07-10, 03:22:20 PM

I think better try to talk with Topolo, he knows and modified some of the FMs, I think Mirage and MIG-29 for RV (and I think also for OF). Mav-Jp can also help if you catch him, he is one of the builders of the HFFMs (High Fidelity Flight Models) for the F-16, and he also knows the stuff...

Snake if you need RP5 manual I can u/l it...
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molnibalage
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Post by molnibalage » 2007-07-10, 03:57:13 PM

Simdata editing? Yeah, that is cool. I have done some modifiactions not only in simdata. I used the F4Browse too. The RP5 manual isa VERY good document.

I noticed the sim use linearized parametric curves and interpolate the physical values to sim from this curves.

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FM Doghouse and FM Editing

Post by ranger822 » 2007-07-10, 04:48:23 PM

Editing flight models really involves three parts - the first part is the basic dimesions/weights/gear positions. Next is are the performance data. Lastly, is the supplemental data. Editing FMs is rather easy to do as long as you don't touch the Performance data. Editing FMs to be accurate is more difficult.

The first problem I have had is knowing what the various codes in the supplemental section at the end of the FM do and what the parameters are. I asked Topolo for some info and he was helpful I but didn't get as much info as I had hoped. Thus far - I have learned by memory what several of the codes do and have looked at the FMs to determine, by inspection, the range of values. There are probably a few coders that know exactly what the codes really mean, do, and the range of values allowed. But, I am unaware of any published work that codifies all the info in one place. In some cases, the FMs will contain a commented note about a parameter. This is useful.

Regarding performance curves/data - this is where FM Doghouse is useful. It provides a graphic output of the curves - so you can compare relative performances - - This will allow anyone, to simply tweak the curves to more closely simulate a given flight performacne desired. The main problem I have with the FM's in Falcon is with regard to having some sort of measureable standard or normalizing of performance values across all models. This may be a source of frustration for the user because sometimes the FMs attributed to a given aircraft may not be realistic and either the a/c has a better or worse performance than it actually should have. I am not sure how well the flight models have been understood or used in the past, but I have noticed quite a few aircraft with peformances that are probably not accurate to true life. The problem is most noticeable in a dogfight scenario where a known inferior aircraft has a much better performance than a known superior aircraft. Perhaps, some of this is the result of data being tampered with for "cheats" but perhaps it is also a result of incomplete or ill-informed work being carried over and then forgotten. Falcon database is filled with little problems - mostly not noticed until you start looking around.

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Post by Snake Man » 2007-07-11, 01:02:39 AM

ranger822 wrote:program to look at performance curves - -provides a nice graphic output which you can compare to other flight models --

Haven't tried to modify performance curves - - this is probably where a lot of research needs to be done on aircraft and the data is rather difficult to obtain. As Topolo explained to me the performance info isn't exactly something you make a quick Google check on. . . also, getting the performance into Falcon standard may be more problematic...

When someone reports that an aircraft has too little or too much performance then FM Doghouse is useful to prehaps figure out what is not right for a given flight model and its associated aircraft.
So where can I download this FM Doghouse utility?

Okay so the editing of flight models is not that easy, but it can be done at least in minor tweaks?

Is there any other info we have not yet covered in this topic? I want to learn more.
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Deathdealer
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Re: Flight Model

Post by Deathdealer » 2009-11-05, 09:22:33 PM

Hi guyz!
Is there a d/l link for the Doghouse util?

Ed_1
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Re: Flight Model

Post by Ed_1 » 2009-12-01, 01:07:01 AM

I wouldn't bother with doghouse, as much as it does show graphs, it was never kepted updated to rest of F4 code .

ccc
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Re: Flight Model

Post by ccc » 2009-12-01, 02:06:33 AM

Ed_1 wrote:I wouldn't bother with doghouse, as much as it does show graphs, it was never kepted updated to rest of F4 code .
hmm..great 8-) new FM code sounds much more complex than ever..does it have a non-FBW code module? :wink:

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Re: Flight Model

Post by Ed_1 » 2009-12-01, 03:55:27 AM

ccc wrote:
Ed_1 wrote:I wouldn't bother with doghouse, as much as it does show graphs, it was never kepted updated to rest of F4 code .
hmm..great 8-) new FM code sounds much more complex than ever..does it have a non-FBW code module? :wink:
When I say new code I was referring to like after SP3 , the doghouse was never kept updated after that point and is not real useful as it seems to be at first glance.
You can edit FM with plain notepad but you will need a lot of data to improve it .

ccc
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Re: Flight Model

Post by ccc » 2009-12-01, 04:33:05 AM

i see. i've heard similar comments on Doghouse from guys with aeronautics background.

btw i truely assumed you were implying something new heheh :mrgreen:

Snake Man
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Re: Flight Model

Post by Snake Man » 2009-12-01, 06:42:08 AM

Ed_1 wrote:I wouldn't bother with doghouse, as much as it does show graphs, it was never kepted updated to rest of F4 code .
I have updated the PMC Editing Wiki: flight model page accordingly. Thanks for the info.
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Ed_1
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Re: Flight Model

Post by Ed_1 » 2009-12-01, 01:15:07 PM

ccc wrote:i see. i've heard similar comments on Doghouse from guys with aeronautics background.

btw i truely assumed you were implying something new heheh :mrgreen:
I don't think anyone uses doghouse for aircraft FM , If your running BMS+ exe's install it won't even load FM without hacking the dat file.

Cathouse was kept updated and many errors fixed , but current versions are not out in the wild .
After about 1.5 yrs of fixing Cathouse , I reworked all the missile FM in AF as there was many gross errors in old FM's dating back to RP days .

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