2009 Theater development organized

[Snake Man]

The two other topics New theaters and Which Theater should be modded/further developed first? are getting sidetracked fast so I decided to open this one new topic for this specific sidetracked discussion.

2009 Theater development organized

What I mean that we need to organized the enthusiastic theater guys who are willing to help PMC develop our (and their) theaters.

This topic is only for discussion about organizing the theater people, not which theater is going to be first, which tile has 24 palette or how I add carriers to campaign files. Just discuss the organizing and related matters.

I'll start this topic with a large post merged from those above mentioned topics. Some of my quotes or answers slide around the edge of specific editing stuff, but I felt that its best to suit this new topic so we can keep the two others dedicated to the relevant discussion. OK here we go:

Quotes from New theaters topic:

my wishlist for future/or not working theaters:
1. Iceland (GIUK GAP) or Cuba
2. Nordic
3. Panama

Iceland is Widowmakers theater, but I've spoken to him last time like year ago or something like this, I'm not sure how interested he is to continue developing it.

Nordic was the 87th_striker's squadrons theater if I'm correct. Yo striker, hows the people in your squadron, is this theater dead and buried or is there chance of you guys getting back together to make a new version?

Panama is Malc's theater and his active. He can speak for himself.

Europe is maybe the best theater.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one

No seriously, I find it that PMC will develop our theaters equally, naturally there are the order in which the theaters were started and how many man hours has been put into them. Its safe to say that ODS is the oldest with most manpower, Vietnam coming close second. This doesn't mean that I have secret conspiracy to keep ODS as the main theater, if that would be the case why would I do some strange Taiwan theaters for ccc then?

PMC and I wont rank the theaters what is best and what sucks, we are committed to developing all of them, regardless of their status. Anything beyond that is just opinions and as I opened this quote... everyone's got one, its pointless to discuss/argue about them.

We need:
- a "Terrain" group responsible for tiles, terrain data features and elevation data.
- a Campaign group resposible for Order of Battle, database for th different planes, vehicles etc
- a 3D groups for models and skinning
- an installer group makeing installers for all F4 variants.

I think its kind of "childish" (sorry I cant express my feeling properly) to create these kind of "groups", unless its just to boast one's signatures on forums. I mean there are people who are specialized for certain things, like in past few weeks we've seen ccc being the new 3d model tester, polak a tile maker, toonces campaign designer/AAR guy and I can do the overall theater editing not specifying really on any specific task (if whole theater creation doesn't count).

I feel that it would just add pressure to people if we make a lists of members on each group, I've been into this scene so long time that I've seen just... countless and countless... people coming and going during the years. If we make a cool list of members right now, today, wonder how it looks like in 2 years from now. I don't believe such group member list's at all. We (well I at least) all do this at our free will and without limitations, deadlines or pressure, that's the whole point of being fun is for me.

However do not confuse this in any way that I have something against working in a team/group, that couldn't be further from the truth. Gimme 100 guys developing theaters 24h/7 and I'm the happiest puppy on the block!

a scenario/campaign director (or something of that sort). We (or, rather, the PMC crew) have the methods down to create a theater, populate it with air and ground forces, tile everything, create skins, etc. But, what separates a theater full of planes and tanks from a true "campaign" is the story it is supposed to convey. How did this campaign start? What are the objectives of each side? How did I get here, why am I fighting, and what am I trying to accomplish?

I absolutely agree. We need good campaign story lines and most of all, realistic and game play compatible victory conditions for our campaigns.

I'll take it that you're our "man" to design campaigns?

I posted how many AARs on this website? I have 3 in Nevada I think...how many folks have asked for my mod? One- fafa, who doesn't even play FreeFalcon, so the mod won't even work for him. How about Derstef's Taiwan campaign? All that work...how many people have you heard discussing it? Or DoctorX's campaigns, which are, imo, revolutionary? My point is that even with all this stuff floating out there, there are (probably) only a few people in the whole simming universe that are actually downloading and playing these things.

Well I've gotten statistics from our main host and they say (I can bring you the more detailed stats later) that there is HUNDREDS of downloads for each of PMC theaters, naturally that's not that much in long run like months or so, maybe some quake kiddie counter strike battlefield addons get hundreds of THOUSANDS of downloads... but I really would not make the judgment that these theater addons aren't appreciated or downloaded.

Its been true for long time that PMC Tactical forums are inactive place for only those hardcore developer types, so few posts here won't mean that the stuff here isn't appreciated. Heck put some falcon theater words into Google and see what site pops up first, I bet its PMC Tactical forums

Here is the statistics. You have to understand these are HITS, how many times someone has started OR resumed a download. It doesn't mean that it has been successfully downloaded this amount of times and there are this amount of users out there with the downloaded theater. I don't know how to calculate the (more) real download number. Also remember that these are only from the (domain down at 2024-03-24) host (I would have to check but I think its the main host server on all theaters).

Hits:
PMC_Afghanistan_Theater_v0.3.rar - 170
PMC_Balkans_Theater_v1.0.rar - 411
PMC_DesertStorm_Theater_v0.7.rar - 2023
PMC_Europe_Theater_v0.6.rar - 180
PMC_Iran_Theater_v0.3.rar - 263
PMC_Korea128_Theater_v0.3.rar - 80
PMC_Nevada_Theater_v0.4.rar - 183
PMC_Taiwan_Theater_v0.4.rar - 176
PMC_Vietnam_Theater_v1.0.rar - 210

Actually now that I look that list... its clear that ODS just simply dominates the users interests, its very surprising to me that Balkans comes second. Could it be that it was advertised in freefalcon.com forums? Dunno.

Remember that I've kept all the above theater releases (except mentioned Balkans) hidden from all F4 forums and news sites. Imagine the download amounts if we would hype and spam forums and news sites with their releases. I bet we would double the hits...

if we all work together, we can reach an finished mod much faster than a single one.

Yaaawn... so what else is new?

No I wasn't making jokes of you, its just that this phrase has been used so many times earlier and while being true... nothing ever happens about it.

Anyone old enough here to remember this from, gosh, 2002 or something?



We have been looking for help many times, we usually get few people, but no way the amounts which would result into "breakthrough" of development. There is no magical "please help me?" signs out there which would solve our theater progress problems overnight.

about the issues that "nobody" tries the new mods: WE NEED MORE ADVERTISING on them i think and somekind of oneclickinstallers.

All PMC theaters come with one click installer, what are you talking about?

What about Allied Force theater support?

What about it? January 2007 I vouched to support Allied Force and nothing has changed since.

i know that AF uses PCX format, but has it also another tile structure or any other major difference? if not, we can save it one time in .dds and one time in .pcx format. not the problem... or what?

All falcon versions work from the default PMC theater installer, there is nothing to worry about pcx or dds tiles.

the best would be if you "join our upcoming group"

Hehe, I hate to get picky but its really that YOU perhaps should join the mod group, I mean Sherlock has been long time affiliated with the PMC Theater Developer rank here in our forums hehe.

I kidd, I kidd... I don't mean any stupid "hes king you're nobody" stuff. This is precisely what I mean earlier in this post about the mod group member lists

Aaaanyways...

To end this large post on New Theaters topic I'll say this.

PMC has been on the theater scene since start, hell, we created it. I am humbled by the support the present time guys have given us, not solely but for example derstef with the Taiwan Mod etc, including many others out there more or less actively developing theaters. I now see that there is sudden urge on the scene about to get theaters completed, to where the roots of this urge is I don't know, maybe it spawns from the depths of flames from certain people on the scene about theaters being unusable.

Do not worry guys, if you really have enthusiasm to work hard on theaters, I'm standing here shoulder to shoulder with you to keep on the theater developing fire burning. I have absolutely no doubt that with hard work we can complete all of our theaters to enjoyable stage.


Quotes from Which Theater should be modded topic:

i can set just set 10 poll options but we have 15 theaters here.

I have configured our forum to accept 20 poll options now, see if you can correct your post by editing it?

i realized that i put much energy into my Taiwan mod for example

And it will be included in the next official Taiwan release. Your work is appreciated, make no mistake about it.

to prevent this for future work, we should vote to find out the highest interest of the community.

Haha, if I'd edit these games solely for the public interest... I'd stopped a LONG time ago. You need to get over the famous ego thing, if you like to edit good for you, but don't do it so you can get a name for yourself.

SM what do you think about such a group? can we count on you? and all the other grand masters here? or should we leave our dirty fingers from your Theaters?

As I said earlier, I don't think such groups are necessary, but on the other hand I have no objections for them either. So if you guys want to make some theater groups, I can setup a custom forum rank here in few minutes and you guys can update your signatures. But I certainly feel that its not necessary and is somewhat "childish" to have those groups. If we have the groups, these theaters wont develop any sooner... Only hard work makes them develop sooner.

as i said the idea is that a team could reach more than a single person. if you don't like when ppl develop your theaters further, please let us know and we keep our dirty fingers from it.

As I stated earlier, of course I want you guys to develop PMC theaters further, but we must COORDINATE this development so it wont be wasted. Also I don't want anyone doing edits by themselves and then release them unofficially, if you edit, why not do it officially? Excellent example is yours (derstef taiwan) campaign tweaks, you did great work and that campaign will be included in the next official release, all your work has paid off and the end users get to enjoy it.

my idea was to split up the work to the interested people, work it out, then sent to you and it get packed into the PMC theater installers... nothing else.

I absolutely agree. This is how it should be done.

Alright there was the post.

So now if you guys want to get organized, without committing or promising anything, you could post here what is your area of expertise and that you would be willing to help (remember, no commitments or promises taken).

Let's get organized

[molnibalage]

Actually now that I look that list... its clear that ODS just simply dominates the users interests, its very surprising to me that Balkans comes second. Could it be that it was advertised in freefalcon.com forums? Dunno.

Why ODS? Because it is a very easy campaign. Players can get the "we are so cool feeling". I don't like it...

Balkan? Easy. ---> OF and AF also have this.

If we had a REAL finished and well detailed Europe theater wth a late '80s OOB (that we have started organize) maybe this will be changed.

[toonces]

Great post Snakeman.

The only issue I have with your post is with respect to Derstef's/Striker's idea to form "groups" responsible for various aspects of campaign building. I don't need a fancy signature for my forum profile, and I don't think that's their point. Rather, I think that all of us has a specific area of expertise or interest, and the idea is to figure out who wants to do what, which is sort of what you are proposing in this thread I think And, in addition, it's important to ensure all aspects of development are being addressed. For example, Taiwan seems to have a linking problem...if nobody is taking that part of development on, the campaign can't really develop beyond that point of failure.

One of the things that surprised me after I started doing searches for info on the theaters is how long guys like you (SM) and ccc have been working on Falcon. Alot of the names in this sim go back 8-10 years. So, I can understand your skepticism regarding the new guys on the block. Will I still be interested in this in a year, two years, five years? I have no idea.

[edit, deleted a bunch of stuff...]

Ok, trying to keep on topic here.

Whether we form a group or groups, my interests in theater modding are in the campaign development and story development. I'm also very interested in figuring out how to get the ground war "working", in the sense of the Falcon campaign engine actually tasking the ground forces meaningfully.

Finally, I only plan to have FreeFalcon installed on my HD. If the stuff we do works well with AF and OF, great! But I don't have the software, time, or interest in testing campaign functionality for any version rather than FreeFalcon right now. If we have some OF and AF players on the "team", that would greatly facilitate multi-version development.

[Snake Man]

The only issue I have with your post is with respect to Derstef's/Striker's idea to form "groups" responsible for various aspects of campaign building. I don't need a fancy signature for my forum profile, and I don't think that's their point. Rather, I think that all of us has a specific area of expertise or interest, and the idea is to figure out who wants to do what, which is sort of what you are proposing in this thread I think

That's right, I would like to hear everyone post what they want to edit.

And, in addition, it's important to ensure all aspects of development are being addressed. For example, Taiwan seems to have a linking problem...if nobody is taking that part of development on, the campaign can't really develop beyond that point of failure.

OK who says nobody is taking part of that development?

It feels strange reading this sort of stuff. I linked the theater and now with testing its been discovered the linking broken on the coastal areas... I just haven't got around to fix it yet. There is absolutely no issue that "nobody is working on it or are willing to fix it." naturally its task for me and I'll do it on the next development cycle

One of the things that surprised me after I started doing searches for info on the theaters is how long guys like you (SM) and ccc have been working on Falcon. Alot of the names in this sim go back 8-10 years.

Hehe yeah, it all started in 2000. Its been long road indeed.

So, I can understand your skepticism regarding the new guys on the block. Will I still be interested in this in a year, two years, five years? I have no idea.

Actually it has nothing to do with NEW guys dropping out, its just that there is no certainty that anyone will not drop out. I would just hate to make nice theater group list only to find it out of date after few months when guys come and go. I've seen it so many times.

Anyways, just give me a handful of enthusiastic guys interested in Campaign, Textures and Database and we will have a great theater within weeks

[Red Dog]

Well as far as I am concerned, I fly OF only but I'll always be there wherever the PMC team needs my navigation work for any version as it's always been the case.
I don't visit here often but you guys know where to find me anyway

I have special project on my own for Nevada, but as I said, i'll work anywhere I'm needed, as long that the navigation work is done my way

[Butcher_ss]

I am willing to help with database for a/c and vehicles, order of battle information and so on. At the moment i only fly AF due to my online wing flying it (i am about to resign from it though) but i am frustrated by its lack of tools and its limitations. I don't have any preferences when it comes to theaters so i am pretty much willing to work on anything.

[derStef]

- Everybody can vote 3 theaters in the poll! -

TO ALL, PLEASE VOTE AGAIN! i've updated the list!
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21729&start=0&st=0 ... w=viewpoll



i could do:

RESEARCH (OOB, loadouts,...)
CAMPAIGN CREATION/BUILDING
DATABASE EDITS AND LOADOUTS (BLUE SIDE)
SKINNING (but only easy ones)

mostly interested in:
1. Taiwan
2 .Europe
3. Vnam
4. ODS
5. Nordic
6. Iran
7. Falklands or Cuba
8. Balkans
9. Georgia
10. Nevada

[Luk]

Luk
focus - Europe theater
experience - 3D modeling, 2D texturing
BUT - unexperienced in translation to F4 world
-have learned basic procedures in terrain creation
-have some ideas how to improve terrain look
-fearful in case of db edit
I have quite good knowledges about RED OOB
and have a lot of resources for it.
My English is poor. I can unerstand your
posts quite well and fast, but to write somethink.....

I am big fan of Falcon since 1992.
Theater develop is very important for me.
I can say its the only hobby(F4), left me from past.
But it is also suffering - very few time to steep in.
It is a part of my daily ritual to read this forum.
Something like cigarette break.

My current work is a CAD - DWG template for features edit (load-write).
Java tool is not usefull with large files (and not enough accurate).
But I was always painter/drawer, not a programer. For somebody
competent easy task - for me half year theme...But I am patient guy.
Then I work on layered "objectives" + coverage map for Eu as well.

Luk

[derStef]

Sounds good, Luk!


@ Red Dog: great that we can count on your help! cheers for that!


BTW SnakeMan this project should not be about getting new cool signatures, (i have already a cool one ), it's to get the ppl togher, throw comments and suggestions in, sort out who is interested in what and who will make it.

about oneclick installers: well i meant if your work is modded, the modded part should be integrated into your installer. (look my Taiwan mod. still a little "dance" to install..)

I now see that there is sudden urge on the scene about to get theaters completed, to where the roots of this urge is I don't know, maybe it spawns from the depths of flames from certain people on the scene about theaters being unusable.

Do not worry guys, if you really have enthusiasm to work hard on theaters, I'm standing here shoulder to shoulder with you to keep on the theater developing fire burning. I have absolutely no doubt that with hard work we can complete all of our theaters to enjoyable stage.

YES!!!!


btw i don't think that such a group would be childish.. everybody has a task then...

[ccc]

oops it's 2009.. and im still wondering here

thanx SM for keeping this dev forum alive!

[Snake Man]

about oneclick installers: well i meant if your work is modded, the modded part should be integrated into your installer. (look my Taiwan mod. still a little "dance" to install..)

And as I've repeatedly said, when the next official Taiwan release is out, your edits are in this release. Don't worry about it. Also any other person who wants to do some editing or a mod, it can be integrated to the main theater without problems.

btw i don't think that such a group would be childish.. everybody has a task then...

I'm willing to make a post, maybe this topics first post, where we list everyone and their "position" or expertise, whom then can be contacted here in the forums. These people then would know that we are working together and not alone, so perhaps that would motivate/pressure for some hard work

Lets give it a time, lets see how many people will post their willingness to help and area of expertise into this topic. That alone tells quite a lot how far we can go with some "group".

[Echo300]

I'm willing to help, I can give some time, and I have barely any skills or experience whatsoever. (So I can work on anything that needs it, right? )

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I'm AF only.

[Sherlock]

I'm here and have been for years (even before I registered! ).

I am not interested in cool signatures... , never have been and won't ever be.

I am interested in increasing the theater choices for Allied Force simmers, plain and simple.

I am more of a "Jack of all trades and master of none" guy when it comes to Theater development. I have become familiar with Dem2Terrain use (including editing the rules file), Terrain Perl script usage, TacEdit (including objectives creation/placement, linking, unit creation/placement, etc), F4Browse/LPBrowse (DB changes and additions of weapons), tile making (not from scratch; see below), kneeboard & UI map (resource) making, pathmaker (tile paths), CATE use and script development, .TRI file creation/modification, Witchfix .THR file modification, Texture.Bin file modification and Terrainview (including modifying terrain feature file modification/combining).

I have limited graphic talent. For example, I am pretty good at taking an already created map and enhancing it to make a good kneeboard map. I can take google terrain shots and make terrain tiles. But creating something from scratch (a/c skin for example) I would suck at.

I have limited time these days but I am still willing to help as much as my time allows me.

[Snake Man]

After creating this topic I posted topics about this into Frugals and Freefalcon.com forums to get some badly needed attention, at that point the reads of this topic were 89.

Well frugals is now down (for me) but the last time I checked I think it was 348 reads there, in Freefalcon.com today has 263 reads for the topic. Our topic here what you are reading now has total of hundred and forty five (145) reads.

Seems like nobody gives a shit about theater development

Sure they are all interested to read the topic in those forums and post "good work!" replies that we decided to organize theater development... yet nobody is interested of taking part of it, not even to take a look at the source topic of whats it all about.

Oh well, no matter. It was worth the try.

[ccc]

LOL.. SM, we knew it

whatever you orgnaized, it counts on dedicated modders, working constantly for a looooooooooooong time.

relax. theater dev always progressing at its own pace.. if ppl want speed it up, they must invest something, time, energy, and passion.

[derStef]

Well, yes, Snake Man, that's a bit curious.

maybe it has something to do that not really much people know about the F4 editing tools or how to use it... yeah i know, that's why you created that wonderful falcon editing wiki. Imo the editing wiki deserves a sticky in EVERY Falcon related website. also the PMC site itself and the downloadsection with the tools. please talk with Hustler (FF), Frugals, and the OF forum dudes!

i mean the stuff gets way too less attention.


we should now really find out who is interested to do things and which ones.
i mean who wants/can to help or take over wich part of the development:



UPDATED:20.1.2009


Data/OOB Research: derStef, Molni, toonces?

3D stuff:
CCC? hopefully! trivella?

Database:
AF: Sherlock
FF: derStef, Molni
OF:

Skins:
AF: Sherlock
FF: derStef, Molni
OF:

Campaigns:
AF:
FF: derStef, SM?, Molni
OF:

Storyline: Toonces!, Sherlock

Terrain:
adding/replacing groundobjects: Polak
Terrain Tiles: Polak

User Interface:

Misc. stuff:
TACAN: RedDog
Soundfiles:
TacRef:
Kneemaps:Sherlock, Mapi?
Movies: Molni!
Theater.TGAs: Sherlock

compatibility for AF/FF/OF:

[toonces]

Hey SM,
Listen, I hear you and understand where you're coming from.

I'm a total N00b here, but I can tell you why I think we don't get more support from the 'community': 1. This (campaign/theater creation) is very very hard, 2. nobody has quite figured out how to finish one of these things yet.

You mentioned in another thread that the biggest hangup, perhaps, people have about the PMC campaigns is that they're not 'working' or 'winnable'. After 10 years an who knows how many people have tried, nobody has quite figured out how to take an idea for a theater and make it into something that works just like the stock Korea campaigns. 10 years, people alot smarter or more dedicated than me, and they didn't figure it out.

What hope is there that I will finally figure it out?

I can only speak for myself, but my main reason for being here is that I'm finally tiring of Falcon. I mean, I've blown up stuff in Korea for 10 years. I'm ready for a change, ya know? I think many folks feel the same way, the browse over to PMC, they install a theater or two, they try them, and then they say, "well that was neat, but what's the point? How do I win?"

And, perhaps if all that isn't the reason, I don't think you can appreciate what it is like tackling that wiki for the first time. Totally, utterly overwhelming. You've been as patient as anyone I've ever met on a forum with me, and I still barely understand what I'm doing when I open tacedit.

We have maybe 10 guys here that seem to be really dedicated to trying to get a theater working. The pure vertical learning curve to modding anything in Falcon has/will weed out the rifraf. What you have left is a small core of folks that are willing to work. And, while 10 folks isn't a lot, maybe smaller is better in that it will keep us focused.

I think there's enough expertise here to get something done. If PMC can pump out one working, winnable, Korea-quality campaign, I'll bet things will get alot more exciting on the PMC forums.

Just some thoughts from the new guy.

[Polak]

I think that reason for folks general "non enthusiasm" is just because player's demographics are changing and there a lot stiff and serious competition of real games going around.

We are still kind of well supplied with few very serious gaming/combat simulation titles(DCS, Il2, SH3,4,maybe 5, SBProPE, Steel Furry) and at the same time general PC simulation audience is rather dwindling. Rest of the folks (younger gen) is out there playing different platforms and different games. Sadly they just out to look for something New and Shiny (rest matters not).

However, here on the local F4 turf, this last PMC trend of concentrating team efforts on one theater until finish is very correct response to this downturn. The other piece of this puzzle is to deliver finished interesting and attractive mod so few heads will turn around to notice this. Still, we cannot be here hoping for any revolutionary or evolutionary movement. No way and not anymore.

Bottom line , I think .... It is more about us having fun creating this stuff than others playing and appreciating it .

[toonces]

I agree with Polak. If you're here to get a pat on the back at the end, this is probably not the right place to hang out!

Look, we can chat all day long about this stuff, but talk is cheap. Heck, I can spit out ideas for grand Falcon campaigns forever. My mind is always thinking of new stuff to do.

What we really need to do, before we do a single thing else, is figure out how to get a working campaign. I feel like I'm discussing the same thing in like 5 threads!

The fundamental problem to PMC campaigns is the winning aspect. You have to give the player a reason to fly the campaign! It isn't enough to provide an empty toolbox and expect folks to stay entertained. I don't want to start yet another thread beating this topic to death.

Consider the Falcon 4 competition for a moment:

1. LOMAC- scripted, linear campaign with some persistent damage between missions.
2. Third Wire series- 'dynamic' in the sense that the sim engine frags different missions with objectives based upon persistent damage, but the player has no control over the ATO.
3. Il-2- actually, I never could figure out how these campaigns worked.
4. DCS Blackshark- similar to LOMAC.

And so on.

Nobody clamors that these campaigns are the next big revolutionary thing in the simming world, but they still work for the player. Why? Because they are still goal-oriented campaigns.

A player wants/needs a reason to fly. You have to let them know that there is an end out there that you can reach, and at the end you will get your virtual hand-shake and medal.

So, here's my point: we can spend forever making beautiful new skins and new models, pretty new terrain and tiles, and so on. But until we can all figure out (or at least Snakeman can figure out and delineate the goal- this is his house after all) what the goal is for a completed campaign, we're just pimping out a car that doesn't run. I mean, you can have a thousand killer new skins, but if nobody wants to fly the campaign because there's no virtual parade at the end, then what's the point?

I'll put the rest of my rant in the 'winnable campaign' thread. Bottom line, we should all be heading over to the ODS forum right now and pool our resources to figure out what is broken and how to fix it. Do that first. Get it working. Then we can tweak OOBs, make new skins, and so on.

[molnibalage]

Stefan's list is more or less good for me.

[Biker]

Hey SM,

don't get frustrated on this.
Think there are quite some people around which can and will help (me too if I can find some free time).

The idea to focus all the dev to bring one theater towards release is really good move!

Cheers
Biker

[Sherlock]

Database:
AF:
FF: derStef, Molni?
OF:

Skins:
AF:
FF: derStef, Molni?
OF:

Campaigns:
AF:
FF: derStef, SM?, Molni?
OF:

Storyline: Toonces!

Terrain:
adding/replacing groundobjects:
Terrain Tiles: Polak?

User Interface:

Misc. stuff:
TACAN:
Soundfiles:
TacRef:
Kneemaps: Mapi?
Movies: Molni!
Theater.TGAs:

compatibility for AF/FF/OF: [/b]

I work on Allied Force (it's the only version I fly). I would like to help Toonces with the storyline. I believe with my military background (US Air Force for over 12 years) I can help in that area. You can put me down for the areas above: Some database work (I will probably need assistance in this area since I have only done modifications to weapons so far in F4Browse), campaigns, storyline (with Toonces), Kneemaps and Theater TGAs.

BTW, Reddog does the TACAN info for all airbases when he does the airbases.

[Polak]

Terrain:
adding/replacing groundobjects:
Terrain Tiles: Polak?

Why with question mark? I thought that this what I have been doing for the past month or so.
BTW I know too some modeling and actually very interested in placing and populating terrain with 3D objects. I did some extensive work for SF:P1 in this field and for some other simulation too.

[trivella]

In touch already with Polak.
Better to refer to him @ the moment for my little free time.
In Falcon since the beginning and in virtual group with an italian group from 2002,medium high skill with Rhino3d and medium skill with photoshop.
We released in 2003-2004 some patches for the Falcon BMS1.03 and 2.00 installation over balkans to remove some issues and finally we made (always together with some other 2 guys) maybe the first OCI for Falcon straight from original CD to final version in just one click(a bit proud of it)
But this belong to jurassic era of Falcon.
Now in VsN flyin' with OF since 2006.
Here listening and trying to do something useful for the last willing comunity over the net.
In fact i can't read something clever over frugals from a long time.
I agree with Polak on Frugals and FF response.
New sim and the ages of Falcon4 make the difference.
Bye

[derStef]

i updated the list!

TO ALL: just tell us what you are interested to do! every help is welcome. espezially for the Research, nobody needs any Falcon editing skills, so just tell us what you can do.


@ Sherlock: no fear, we all need some help in some areas. btw, well toonces, knows good, right toonces? but yeah work it out together!


@Polak: i just want your confirmation that you want to take that part, man!

@ trivella: nice to see you here! are you interested to take a part? 3D model stuff? skinning? wich version AF/FF/OF?

[Polak]

@ derStef : you have my confirmation for tiles, at least at the current moment
: luk is omited from the assignment list, interesting work on F4 environment and ground shaders (?)
: do not put me for object placement since I need to learn that yet, others surely fit much better here
@ trivella : not quite follow what you mean, but not to worry, also I am not on Frugals
@ toonces: for the outsiders (like me ) Falcon is the mainstain and example of the dynamic campaigns among all simulations, old and new; this is for SP an MP alike; if campaigns in PMC theaters working this is then a priority for make it work
@ all : any chances to make any improved effects? oil field fires? local night illumination of city out if electric grid bombed? flooding of area after taking out dam? ocean oil spills ?etc.

[derStef]

@ derStef : you have my confirmation for tiles, at least at the current moment
: luk is omited from the assignment list, interesting work on F4 environment and ground shaders (?)
@ all : any chances to make any improved effects? oil field fires? local night illumination of city out if electric grid bombed? flooding of area after taking out dam? ocean oil spills ?etc.

- ok.

- F4environment: does it mean Terrain or campaign or what?


- uhm i don't really think that we can integrate such effects...sadly

[Sherlock]

@ derStef : you have my confirmation for tiles, at least at the current moment
: luk is omited from the assignment list, interesting work on F4 environment and ground shaders (?)
@ all : any chances to make any improved effects? oil field fires? local night illumination of city out if electric grid bombed? flooding of area after taking out dam? ocean oil spills ?etc.

- ok.
- F4environment: does it mean Terrain or campaign or what?
- uhm i don't really think that we can integrate such effects...sadly

@ derStef: You put me down for skin work in the list above but I didn't list skin work as an area I wanted to do....

[Echo300]

Derstef: I can help with research. I hesitate to put myself down for any actual playing around inside of Falcon's workings. I'm still just learning how to do all that. And I'm AF only.

[Luk]

Wow! Nice to see AF is not outsider here!
BTW - we can integrate "shader effect" into AF version only (if you will be satisfied with the result)...
Luk

[Luk]

@ all : any chances to make any improved effects? oil field fires? local night illumination of city out if electric grid bombed? flooding of area after taking out dam? ocean oil spills ?etc.

I used to dream about similar things. But I became modest...
Now I am still dreaming about putting new static objects into database (then collect them into objectives).
I did some diffident steps, but no break-through. I see big hope in Israel Theater ITAF 1.51 for F4AF. You can see
new models in db there (not only skins). It would be new standard template for AF theaters.

What we need is the tutorial. Howto put new model in - howto make and set objective.
But db editors are solitaires. We need one talkative db editor.

BTW - The models have some destroyed variation. We can model oil platform (or use existing one),
then make ruins - black polygon in case of ocean oil spills...etc

Luk

[Sherlock]

Wow! Nice to see AF is not outsider here!
BTW - we can integrate "shader effect" into AF version only (if you will be satisfied with the result)...
Luk

Absolutely! I had no idea you guys were AF modders! Now I don't feel so alone!

[lightning]

I can help on anything terrain-related, and with any software tools development that's needed (terrain-wise or otherwise).

I know my way around the Falcon terrain files and formats very well, and all of the related theater creation/editing tools on here. I've written plenty of my own code for working with the various terrain database files already for use in a few of my own freeware Falcon add-on products. I'm knowlegable when it comes to GIS applications as well. As I learn more about the other areas I can contribute there too.

[derStef]

Welcome aboard, Lightning!

Cheers
Stef

[trivella]

Hello guys.Few mails shared with Polak trying to understand if me and some other guys @ vipersnest can do something for terrain developing.
I mailed Polak cause over all the screenshot i saw around he is the one that smashed my face.
I'm not saying that he solved the problem,but just saying that far i can understand he has the right knowledges, and all i can do is trying to help him doing something easier that just can help him saving time.
In our group we use to flight with OF.
We used AF but completely out from FF atm.
But we prefer to support just OF.

@ Polak :just reported or discussed over frugals,i don't remember, your screenshots with someone.Also i tried to say that due my horrible english skill is better to keep in touch just with you atm and try to start help you is silly thing ........

As i said before i can try to help you in skinning,tile set research,loadout configuration,and skinning.
Anyway DerStef i will try to contact by pm or messanger and i wish you all the best for your future project.

[Polak]

Trivella,
I appreciate that you like some of the stuff I am bringing to the table, but let us cool down and not make it into some "behind the scene" conspiracy. I have not found ANY solution to anything here really, neither I have any special "knowledge" about anything. I am keen to learn though, and that is why I started to hang on around here.

[Sherlock]

Hello guys.Few mails shared with Polak trying to understand if me and some other guys @ vipersnest can do something for terrain developing.
I mailed Polak cause over all the screenshot i saw around he is the one that smashed my face.
I'm not saying that he solved the problem,but just saying that far i can understand he has the right knowledges, and all i can do is trying to help him doing something easier that just can help him saving time.
In our group we use to flight with OF.
We used AF but completely out from FF atm.
But we prefer to support just OF.

@ Polak :just reported or discussed over frugals,i don't remember, your screenshots with someone.Also i tried to say that due my horrible english skill is better to keep in touch just with you atm and try to start help you is silly thing ........

As i said before i can try to help you in skinning,tile set research,loadout configuration,and skinning.
Anyway DerStef i will try to contact by pm or messanger and i wish you all the best for your future project.

Everyone who is willing to help here is welcome as well as anyone who needs help working on a project of their own. Welcome to PMC!

Polak is doing some great work with terrain tiles and I would think he would appreciate any help you can give him (but I don't want to speak for him).

Don't feel bad about your lack of english. We have a long history here at PMC of working through any communication problems (lack of understanding or otherwise) by an open exchange of ideas and techniques. You are more than welcome to participate in that exchange. Snake Man is cranking us up here for a good, solid year building Falcon Theaters and it looks promising I think!

OF needs some modders here because I think Fafa was the only one I know of doing OF mods and he had to retire due to lack of time (someone correct me if I am wrong). So that is good you guys want to mod for OF.

My advice to you guys at vipersnest is to start getting familiar with the Ultimate Theater Tutorial and how to use the utilties in the download sections. Then you will know how it is done.

Trivella,
I appreciate that you like some of the stuff I am bringing to the table, but let us cool down and not make it into some "behind the scene" conspiracy. I have not found ANY solution to anything here really, neither I have any special "knowledge" about anything. I am keen to learn though, and that is why I started to hang on around here.

I don't think he was so much wanting a "behind the scene" arrangement as much as he felt his lack of english would hinder any involvement he (and the others he spoke of) might have here at PMC directly so he was wanting you to serve as an intermediary (or so that is the way I understood it) to present/discuss any ideas, research, skins, etc., he and the other guys at vipersnest came up with. But I, too, would like to see them all get directly involved here at PMC. An open dialogue with all involved in the quickest and most efficient way to transfer knowledge and get group input. But that's just my opinion! ;0)

Just my 0.02 cents (as we say here in the US).

[Polak]

Sherlock, you hit this right on the target. I also appreciate Tryvella extra enthusiasm and desire to help. And as I guess that is what were are committed to do here at PMC.

[derStef]

Sherlock, you hit this right on the target. I also appreciate Tryvella extra enthusiasm and desire to help. And as I guess that is what were are committed to do here at PMC.

EXACT!, we need every interested, enthusiastic guy, here!

cheers for that!

[87th_striker]

Put me in on terrain stuff. Tiles, features etc