ReadL2 Util

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-05 15:50:00

quote:Originally posted by SnakeMan:
Can you get me firs preview version already today?

No, I don't think so : as said above, I've just finished loading BMPs.

To be done :
- Translate BMP info into tiles info
- Save O2 and L2 files

If I have the time, and don't run into some problems, I hope it will be finished tomorrow evening.

Regards.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-05 16:08:00

OK, after some explanations by email, things are clearer.

Problem is that there was a misunderstanding. I was about to create O2 and L2 files just by reading a BMP.

The idea in fact (correct me if I'm wrong) is to load existing O2 and L2 files, match them with a BMP (and associated conf file) and create new O2 and L2 files with all these infos.

This will be a little more complex

Regards.

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-05 16:13:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
Problem is that there was a misunderstanding. I was about to create O2 and L2 files just by reading a BMP.

no, that would be impossible.

quote:load existing O2 and L2 files, match them with a BMP (and associated conf file)

Thats right, the bmp is where tiler tells the program which areas to place certain terrain types.

The CATE just goes through the terrain and kind of uses the bmp data as "rule".

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-05 16:16:00

OK, now I agree, this should be done within CATE ...

So, no BMP2LF program, but an updated CATE (T-Rex will be happy (private joke

)).

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-05 20:25:00

LOL

*setting down thesaurus to come up with name of new proggie*

So I don't get a chance for more royalties? Maybe the next iteration should be CATE+. Or eCate (enhanced Configurable Auto Terrain Enhancer)? Or BUST-G (Bitmap Using Source Terrain Generator)?

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 08:30:00

ROFL ! No, no more royalties for you

eCATE : I like it

But now, I think we'll stick with CATE.

Regards.

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 08:48:00

So, what kind of a config file I should be generating for CATE?

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 09:29:00

Oh and if someone could try to gather that tile list for me so I could experiment a bit when things are that far.

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 09:49:00

Have you guys gotten the campaign/te (.cam/.tac) file formats yet?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 09:51:00

Umm, do I need it somewhere?

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 09:56:00

The campaign file format is useful when CATE someday reads the airbase locations (and possibly lot of other locations also) from the campaign objectives file.

- Read airbase coordinates and type
- Place correct airbase tiles
- Level the airbase and surrounding tile area

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 10:07:00

Hum, I don't think we are at that level now

And xjussix won't need this, I think (will be useful for CATE, but not for xjussix).

Some info : you'll be happy with next version of CATE, IMHO. I've done some optimizations (sp ?) in reading and saving files (you'll see ...)

Now, I'll start serious things with bmp ...

Question : how would you like BMP feature to integrate with current UI of CATE ?

Regards.

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 10:15:00

After that post Skyfire I hope you receive my mail very soon..Me confused..

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 10:27:00

Received and replied to

Regards.

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 10:48:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
I think that soon we'll need SnakeMan and WidowMaker to write some functional specifications doc.

Yeah I'll put something together.

quote:how would you like BMP feature to integrate with current UI of CATE ?

Basically as CATE is not the painter program, it should be just one tickbox or something "[x] read terrain types from bitmap" and maybe browse button for that required bitmap then.

Basically the bitmap terrain type tiler function should be the tilerule "replace everything in alt" type of thing, but of course "replace everything in these coordinates, regardless of alt". But, it would be great to have it more intelligent to see if those coordinates then have road/river/city tiles, if so... change them accordingly.

This should be in config file, for example a list with the terrain types and matching road/river/city tiles.

Post some questions and I'll try to be more specific

PMC TFW
Snake Man

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 10:50:00

"Hey, I'm just a coder, YOU tell me WHAT to do!"

Let's see what happens, some interesting email conversation going on..

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 10:54:00

What do you think if CATE adapts itself to what is in the conf file ?

That is : if some BMP color rules are found, then that means that CATE needs to work with it. If not, it will behave as before.

Regards.

xjussix · Post by **xjussix** » 2002-03-06 11:05:00

I'm not sure but me thinks that either CATE should do completely the autotiling/bmp scanning OR a separate drawing+autotiling utility(made by me perhaps?) would do it.
Ultimately it would be cool to have one program that could handle all this autotiling + the stuff that CATE already does so CATE is the best candidate for this IMHO.

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2002-03-06 11:46:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
What do you think if CATE adapts itself to what is in the conf file ?

That is : if some BMP color rules are found, then that means that CATE needs to work with it. If not, it will behave as before.

Regards.

yup indeed

if all is well Snakeman has send you an example bmp image from Iceland and an example config file
this should basically explain what CATE should do (for now)

have been testing all the rules now from 1.20
all is working out great
I'll test the extra 1.21 stuff tonight..

Good luck
Widmak

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 14:04:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
That is : if some BMP color rules are found, then that means that CATE needs to work with it. If not, it will behave as before.

Sounds good, but how long does it take to read the bmp (2048x2048 or maybe even the huge sucker Widowmaker wants, 4096x4096)?

If it takes too long, then we would need to activate the reading part on by certain situations only.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 14:38:00

You will be able to activate what you want whenever you want.

At that time, I've done :

- Load BMP
- Load L2 and O2 and translate that in compatible BMP format (that is, a grid of tiles matching the BMP pixels)

So, BMP rules should now be easy to do.

But I'm struggling with reversing O2 and L2 data to original format (that's the harddest part).

Tests (up to now) give completly acceptable treatment times. But we'll see.

Regards.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2002-03-06 15:00:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
What do you think if CATE adapts itself to what is in the conf file ?

Well, the more important question is what do we do when CATE becomes self-aware, meets the AI subroutines in F4 and starts reproducing little baby self-aware programs that take over the world!

Just wanted to say that the developments in this thread are very exciting for F4 Terrain making!

(Not that you guys didn't already know that....)

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 15:35:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
- Load BMP
- Load L2 and O2 and translate that in compatible BMP format (that is, a grid of tiles matching the BMP pixels)
So, BMP rules should now be easy to do.

Can you send test version on my way, I'd like to test it right here (I know the bitmap rules is not completed yet but)?

quote:But I'm struggling with reversing O2 and L2 data to original format (that's the harddest part).

Did you get any help on L2/O2 from Codec or Dr. Fred Balding?

quote:Tests (up to now) give completly acceptable treatment times. But we'll see.

Wanna test - wanna test

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 15:42:00

quote:Originally posted by T_Rex:
Well, the more important question is what do we do when CATE becomes self-aware, meets the AI subroutines in F4 and starts reproducing little baby self-aware programs that take over the world!

More likely we wake up few days from now and look Theater Switcher in SP2 only to see Afghanistan completely tiled. Thats the time to worry about this CATE thing

quote:Just wanted to say that the developments in this thread are very exciting for F4 Terrain making!

Tell me about it. I'm kind of saddened that this util comes so late in falcon history... if only I had this (and maybe the future features which are progressing nicely) back when I started to tile first segments in Vietnam or my absolutely first work on Balkans... oh boy.

But here we are, CATE is getting new features each day and things are looking superb. Maybe in few months when some newbie logs into PMC TFW theater site and wants to get some knowledge on making terrain, he just sees some faint posts about the agony of tiling for months and months just to get few hundred segments done...

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 15:59:00

SnakeMan : I can't send you a test version now. I'm still fighting with reversing L2 and O2 data, and I have a really hard time

And BMP rules are not done at all, but should be done easily once the above is finished.

Regards.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 16:33:00

OK, I've finished a first test version (no, SM, I can't send it yet

) without BMP rules.

I get "strange" results with it : I load the F4 korean theater L2 and O2 files, translate them into a grid of tiles, reverse them to normal L2 and O2 data, and save these files.

Instead of 3.81 MB L2 file, I get a 2.9 MB one (this means that my program has found more duplicate regions).

I loaded this file with TerrainView : at least, this works (TerrainView does not complain), but how can I be sure that I have not modified the terrain ?

Any idea ?

Regards.

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2002-03-06 16:43:00

Hi Guys

I only had a brief scan of this thread but one idea I have toyed with for a while is to mix an altitude algorithm with one based on the inclination (steepness) of a tile. The reason for this is that humans will tend to farm anything less than near vertical

This would if coded right result in alpine pasture land and gaps in areas which would normally be tiled as forest if they are over a certain height.

Just a thought in case it helps.

Chris

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 16:46:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
OK, I've finished a first test version

Whohuu!

quote:(no, SM, I can't send it yet Leech it here: http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/vietnam-t ... kyfire.zip

Let me know when you've downloaded it so I can remove it. Thanks.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 16:52:00

OK, I have it. I'll keep you informed.

Regards.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 16:58:00

OK, same problem.

From a 4.65 MB L2 file, I get a 3.23 MB new L2 file.

Are you sure there is no duplicate regions in your theater ? If so, this would mean that my algorith is FUBAR

Regards.

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-06 17:01:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
OK, same problem.
From a 4.65 MB L2 file, I get a 3.23 MB new L2 file.

Well zip the L2/O2 up and email it to me.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 17:03:00

Hum, wait, my L2 final size is not a multiple of 256, so there's definitely a problem on my side.

I'm searching ...

Regards.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-06 17:14:00

OK, I've found the above (x256) problem.

I send you the modified terrain by mail. And I think we'll see this tomorrow (I'll leave soon, and I don't think you'll have the time to test it in a few minutes

)

Regards.

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2002-03-06 17:41:00

Great

(all I got to say for today)
nice to come back from work and see alot is progressing..

Widmak

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2002-03-07 03:40:00

Hey Widmak, got anything on the structure of e00 and TDF files yet dude??

crossup · Post by **crossup** » 2002-03-07 05:38:00

Hi guys,
Nice to pop back in after a long absence and find that it is the eve of a momentous occasion for solo theatre makers. With SP2, FOX3 and CATE I feel like a kid at christmas time with a tree FULL of toys. Ive waiting for SP2 and the resolution of how-to issues for a SP2 compatible theatre to resume work on Hawaii. As Snakeman has already said, boy we sure spent a lot of man hours to do what CATE does in no time. So, at least in my case Im glad I was unable to have the time to spend retiling ( a spherical convented one) since CATE will reduce that task immensely.
I cant thank Skyfire,Snakeman,Julian,Widowmaker et al enough. One obvious implication of CATE is that the one man theater is not only possible but may not even require your entire waking life to complete.

Anxiously awaiting the initial release,

crossup

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-07 07:53:00

Washout : I've noted your idea, and we'll see what we can do about it when we have a really working version (soon

However, if you compare byte to byte the original files and the new ones, they're not the same (though they have the same size, at least for Vietnam) : that's because, I think, I do not calculate duplicate regions in the same way it was done originally (i.e. tiles in L2 are not in the same order).

There's just one trick left to investigate, about ocean tiles being at offset 0. I'm not sure this an issue at all, but I must check that with Dr. Fred Balding.

Regardless of this trick, all I have to do now is implement the BMP rules (it should not take me long) : so, theorically, you should have a working version today

Regards.

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-07 08:38:00

quote:Originally posted by crossup:
Nice to pop back in after a long absence

Hey nice to see you again and welcome back!

quote:Im glad I was unable to have the time to spend retiling ( a spherical convented one) since CATE will reduce that task immensely.

I suggest you wait a few weeks before we get the auto tools totally configured and figured out... My dream is to have tool that makes "playable" terrain in automatic where human workload should be minimized to few days or so of hard work.

Oh well, it might be like I said dreaming... but, lets keep our fingers crossed.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-03-07 08:43:00

quote:Originally posted by Skyfire76:
about ocean tiles being at offset 0. I'm not sure this an issue at all, but I must check that with Dr. Fred Balding.

What about ocean tiles offset? Ocean is always 0 like you stated.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-03-07 08:46:00

Yes, but I suspect there could be something like full ocean region should always be at the beginning of L2 file, or something like that.

I'm not sure, but if this is the case, this is something I'll have to modify in my code. I'm waiting for Dr. Fred Balding's answer about this.

Regards.