New 3d toys?? XXII

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ccc
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New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

no pic sorry. :D

since i got lots free hours these days, while waiting the release of SP3, i checked my old 3ds models, colored their polys and scaled to correct size, then converted into lods with LE function. ya, buggy lods with look-thrus, no texture-mapped, no DOF/switch features, and no pylon slots.

then what? i realize we cant have all models ready and detailed in short time, so i come up with another idea: raw lods for database. The idea is similar to my old proposal[simple model for first stage modeling], but excute at larger scale and exclusively focus on 3ds modeling part.

The goal is to fill all database blanks ASAP and provide theater/campaign builders maximal freedom to got any 3d stuff they want, so the campaigns can be designed as authentic as possible.

sure, quality of model is variably inferior to that of default f4 models but, my limited test proves it doable, and effectively solve problems like:

1. inaccurate/incomplete campaign OOB due to lack of 3d stuff. campaign designers now can reproduce real world OOB.
2. inaccurate visuals due to using other vehicles' lods.
3. acceptable visuals with correct shilouttes at some distance. elicit pilots' correct visual response.

I'd like to know if this idea is ok for you(especially campaign designers), or we should stick to "one-by-one" modeling for months or years.

To test and evalute visuals yourself, you can grab lod files here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/F43D/file ... review%20/

the item list here:
** List Update: (total 23 a/c)

Sea Harrier FRS1
Sea Harrier FRS2 / FA2
Harrier Gr1
Harrier Gr3
A-1 Skyraider
A-4B skyhawk
A-4M skyhawk
Darkstar UAV
F-101B Voodoo
RF-101 Voodoo recon
Hawk Mk1 trainer
Hawk 100
Hawk 200
K-8 karakoram trainer
Kfir
Mirage III
Mirage 5
IA58 pucara
F-8 Crusader
B-57 bomber
Vulcan bomber
Canberra bobmer
Super Etandard

-------------
you need LodEditor to test these lods.

1. append new lods, write down their lod#
2. select one default a/c CT record, tick [normal], [update] [lod1-3]
3. view new model in TacRef, or set up TEs to evaluate visuals in real fight.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Alright, here's the test shots:

Image

on my tail bite four mirage5 and two F8 cursader..unable to shake them..

though pics are scaled down, i'd say dark-colored a/c showed less obvious look-thrus, and those on F8 are barely acceptable--at some distance you wont note any look-thru bugs(right upper pic).

Their shiloutte/size are correct and can be easily recognized within visual range.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Image

one more test, two A-4M and four sea harrier FRS1.
87th_striker
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by 87th_striker »

Nice stuff and ideas as usual, CCC....

Wich brings us back to a similar proposal: The tiles database. I think that if we want to speed up theater making, we need an online tiles database.

Comments ?
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

na, tile-making is another story.

my 2c, collect all MSFS terrain texture, re-size, tweak pattern skillfully to avoid copyright issue, done.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
na, tile-making is another story.

my 2c, collect all MSFS terrain texture, re-size, tweak pattern skillfully to avoid copyright issue, done.
indeed.. :)
now and that would be motive enough,
to want this,wouldn't it?? . (hell Nukes are in the freaking sim.. ;) )

furthermore the low res model concept is very cool it would give long running projets like Vietnam finally get a chanche to Light up.

good job.

again please try to realise the hard time the database guys are having. ;)


Widmak
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ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:
I undestand that completly
so all in time I suppose
some may say they don't belong in that
database since they are not F16 (timeaeria) related.
Not fit into F16 time frame? you mean FM, avonics, or something else?

non-FBW FM? Tom did great job on that, you know. and Falcon: OIR will detail another non-FBW, the externalized FM file will let us know if A10's qualified as a hard-core( or another "lite" sim toy).
Avonics? most 60-70 era a/c got minimal avonics, remove most MFDs and digitized panels and you are pretty close to the real thing. Gauges, one single radar scope, simplified HUD/projected gunsight recticle, thats all(and true for those in Projket 1).
Aslo OIR will show us 60-era avonics..definitely fit our 60-70 era toys.

BTW, once you got screenshots of nice russian avonics working in SOME f4 mod, you wont doubt its potential. Just too bad exe editing is closed for UT, or our coders could bring us everything.
quote:I think a Fly any Plane dedicated Vietnam theater would simply rock for those who dig it. It would be a 'lite' sim of its own..
I wont call it a "lite" sim, its just the first step. Low-polys are used to fill the blanks and set up BASIC campaign operation; give modders more time to detail/rebuild their favorites to the realism level they wish.
For third party modding, projects being completed at various levels of detail/quality is acceptable. no reason we have to fit some defined realism condition.

quote:furthermore the low res model concept is very cool it would give long running projets like Vietnam finally get a chanche to Light up.
Sounds Vnam theater never got a chance to lite up..yah? :D
quote:again please try to realise the hard time the database guys are having.


I knew that, form each new installers i fully understand the progress of DB editing..need more manpower invested in this field, not an easy job though.
Im try to get involved in DB editing, if edits could be exported individually and fused by some DB manager, more modders should be able to help the process.
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Almost done! Mike's F16XL screenshots here:
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/show ... post191874

pefectism, highly detailed, and months' effort..hehe Mike's on the other extreme. :D :D
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Latest real shots:
http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/cgi-bin/u ... 8&t=000287

Latest preview shots: the shiloutte you could encounter in upcoming theaters.
Image
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
Almost done! Mike's F16XL screenshots here:
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/show ... 9299a94a60 46643dd838858dd0412&postid=191874#post191874

pefectism, highly detailed, and months' effort..hehe Mike's on the other extreme. :D :D
Aweome
simply great
my dream is finally coming true http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/cgi-bin/u ... 8&t=000064

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

back about Vietnam

firt the 'lite' sime remark
was not too good chosen
I did put lite between '' to ilustrate that is not lite. But I meant Avionic wise those new models are not Hard Core modelled (no issue for me).
What I mean with not F16 timeframe earia is
as I said, The F16 was not flown over Vietnam
but again I am playing advocate of the Devil I am not worried by that either
so basically Vietnam is the only non-F16 theater, wich is Great on its own.

As for Vietnam Ligting up
well I mean that, Vietnam is anice theater
but you must agree with me that when your models are included in the database it will sure Light up(as in live up not lite up.. ;) , really looking forward to that.

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

** preview LOD List Update 0605: (total 30 a/c)

Sea Harrier FRS1
Sea Harrier FRS2 / FA2
Harrier Gr1
Harrier Gr3
A-1E Skyraider
A-1H Skyraider
A-4B skyhawk
A-4M skyhawk
Darkstar UAV
F-101B Voodoo
RF-101 Voodoo recon
G2 galeb
G4 super galeb
Hawk Mk1 trainer
Hawk 100
Hawk 200
J-10 fighter
K-8 karakoram trainer
Kfir
Mirage III
Mirage 5
IA58 pucara
F-8 Crusader
B-57 bomber
Vulcan bomber
Canberra bobmer
Super Etandard
SAAB 35 Draken
SAAB 37 Viggen
SAAB 39 Gripen

hmmm.. guess more than enough? :D
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

I am about to close all [3d toys?] threads and F43D site.

it seems Snacko got Z-buffer, some post on Frugals/or Delphi? suspected it's eRazor's new gfx engine.

With z-buffer, no more LOD format, and that means we dont have to compromise with fewer polys, not to mention my extremely low polys.

Since I've no interest from the very begining, and no time for detailed hi-poly modeling, time to stop my hobby.

there're lots serious 3d modelers can handle future modeling, so im really happy i can start to turn [3d toy] threads into [My wish list..] instead! :D :D
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Swede »

Very Nice Models CCC, I loved the J-35.
Image
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

Implemeting Z-buffer should not compromise the current lod structure.

so nothing is lost
no worries

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:Originally posted by Swede:
Very Nice Models CCC, I loved the J-35.
so did you test it in dogfight? how's the visual?
size and shiloutte are close to real thing.

viggen is ok, Gripen got some shading problem on mainwing.
quote:Implemeting Z-buffer should not compromise the current lod structure.so nothing is lost
no worries
it means new gfx engine can adapt other 3d format, which save tons effort on lod conversion.
I didn't do serious lod conversion, and no serious 3ds modeling, so its ok for me; As for those spent months' effort on LODs, hehe...thats another story.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Alright, fiddling with LE and F4browse for hours, here comes the Italian cruiser battle groups!
:D
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by shaunman »

looks good :)
id love some feedback on how to convert
ms flightsim 3d objects into falcon 4
ive got a skyhawk and a f86sabre
im using 3d rhino and F4LE thanks
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:Originally posted by shaunman:
id love some feedback on how to convert
ms flightsim 3d objects into falcon 4
ive got a skyhawk and a f86sabre
im using 3d rhino and F4LE thanks
1. MS model in MDL format, you need some converter. i've collected tons MSFS models. only FS98 models can be converted by this tool into DXF format, then converted to 3ds for editing, then converted to LOD for structuring.
2. MSFS skyhawk has been sent to Fred. MSFS F86 in raw 3ds status.
3. I've no idea about 3d Rhino. make sure it can export 3ds for LE.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by shaunman »

how do i add the lod files into F4?
(for the skyhawk and crusader )
do i use LODeditor or f4browse and how
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:Originally posted by shaunman:
how do i add the lod files into F4?
(for the skyhawk and crusader )
do i use LODeditor or f4browse and how
for beginner, follow steps to press button [ ] :
1. use [action]> [append model], append new lod, write down its new LOD#, like # 5111.

2. now pick a default a/c CT, like F-15C, [normal] > [lod#], keyin 5111 to replace lod# 1-3, [update].

3. now you replace F15C model with new one, fly as F15C TE or campaign now.

4. to get your F15C back, update LOD# with their original#.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

This time big thanx to Bob!

No more replacing lods or parent records, italian warships are added--and completely viewable in TacRef!!! :cool:
Image
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/F43D/file ... vvtest.jpg

very nice indeed
will thuis be in the SP4 database
or is this a seperate one?

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:will thuis be in the SP4 database
or is this a seperate one?
Just my practice to learn LE-F4browse-TacRef intergration.

hehe i've added 10+ a/c lods in my DB, though not fully operational, all are viewable in TacRef!

Hope they can be added.. someday. :p
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

nice
perhaps you can eventually write some stuff down on how to do this, always good to have reference.

Well I think quite some will be in the next database, lotsa work for the guys.
perhaps you can send in your stuff in a spreadsheet so the database guys got something to work from??

dunn, I always stayed miles away from
F4browse... I intend in doing so for stilll awhile.. ;)

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

T_Rex
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by T_Rex »

ccc-

You absolutely freakin ROCK! :D :D
Sic Semper tyrannosauro.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by shaunman »

i tried adding the new LODs to the
F8,A4 and some others but when i go into
a TE mission i made with tacref it kicks me out.

PS can someone tell me how to add textures to 3dModels.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

quote:Originally posted by shaunman:
i tried adding the new LODs to the
F8,A4 and some others but when i go into
a TE mission i made with tacref it kicks me out..
I mean "append model", then pick a default a/c like F15, go to [normal] > change [LOD#] with new #. then you'll find F15 model replaced by new model, in TacRef or TE.

quote:PS can someone tell me how to add textures to 3dModels.
read LE docuement first. just too hard to explain.
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by shaunman »

thanks
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Quake »

F22 FreeStyle?

Yeeeeeessss!!! :D

Image
Image
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E-mail: an.lumia@tiscali.it
ICQ: 109729390


Image
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

Well done Quake, we're waiting you moving on to NEXT project! :D :D
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Widowmaker »

great indeed
now F22b thing I suppose.. ;)

Widmak
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Quake »

quote:Originally posted by Widowmaker:
great indeed
now F22b thing I suppose.. ;)

Widmak
Yes.. but first there are other models... new images as soon as possible..

:cool:
Antonio "Quake" Lumia
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Image
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Spike »

Just a small test, please ignore Image
ccc
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by ccc »

HEHEHE Spike, you should post it days ago!!
how can we ignore this beauty? As ususal, excellent job!

then..what's new in your bag? :D :D
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Re: New 3d toys?? XXII

Post by Spike »

Not much progress these days, wish I had more free time for modelling. :(

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