Reskinning

[Widowmaker]

Question
as still dont understand quite much of lodeditor
and the way falcon handles all this
I'd like to know if the Vipers in the Dogfight room
can be reskinned.. only the thunderbird
is currently quite hires(yet stil lower as the TE/campaign birds..
yet crimson, tiger, and shark dont have this
at all.. only 1 bmp
can this be altered???
would this be much of a job??

now that I'm in the Dogfight room
can one add planes to the list available ac
and or remove some..

another question..
when aplying the radome patch
is it altering all F-16's
in other words is there 1 model
and are they just diffently skinned and identified??
or are there several models??

widmak

[ccc]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Widowmaker:
Question as still dont understand quite much of lodeditor and the way falcon handles all this I'd like to know if the Vipers in the Dogfight room can be reskinned.. only the thunderbird is currently quite hires(yet stil lower as the TE/campaign birds..
yet crimson, tiger, and shark dont have this
at all.. only 1 bmp can this be altered???
would this be much of a job??

>> ya, some dogfight viper use small texture. i think they can be re-directed to larger one. skin wont be a problem with LE, it depends on skin-makers.

now that I'm in the Dogfight room
can one add planes to the list available ac
and or remove some..

>> contact Jerry, he can do that.

another question..
when aplying the radome patch
is it altering all F-16's
in other words is there 1 model
and are they just diffently skinned and identified??
or are there several models??

>> there are several copies of viper, check item menu in LE.

[Dragon]

You can point the texture to a new higher resolution image if you like. You just have to be careful of the use of Texture Sets. The F16 uses 6 texture sets which each contain either 10 or 11 (cant remember). So if each contains 10, then there are 60 total textures in the list. The first 10 (0-9) being for Texture Set 0, 10-19 for Texture Set 1, etc. Each dogfight skin uses a different texture set.

So you have to make sure you are changing the right texture. Also, if you wanted to add a texture, you have to add it for each Set so you would add 6 textures and then have to restructure it so it goes 0-10 Set1, 11-21 Set2, etc.

[hc_pookie]

>now that I'm in the Dogfight room
>can one add planes to the list available ac
>and or remove some..

>> contact Jerry, he can do that.

Currently in-progress for Balkans theater, should be possible to add to other theaters (like Korea) with minimal effort, thanks to Manfred's plugin that automates the process.

Stay tuned....

[Widowmaker]

ok.. good info.. overwhelming thougg

right now I have put the campaign viper
into the Crimson slot

and I replaced Tiger with the EF2000 model

Gotta lot to learn..

Thanx guys..

Widmak

[hc_pookie]

Not sure I understand what you mean - how did you replace that with the EF2000 model???

Are you doing the replacement in an F4Patch, or via LodEdit?

If via LodEdit, then I would recommend opening F4Browse and recording the CT record number, parent data, etc. since LodEdit shows the entire list of CT records, and does not distinguish which CT belongs to which dogfight mode.

OTOH, if you correctly assigned it to the Tiger CT record, then note the Graphic Parent data's numbers, and copy that information onto the Normal CT record's graphic parent... this would be a severe hack job, but you would get the Normal CT record changed.

- Jerry

[Widowmaker]

hmmmm... I am not sure what you are saying
especially the part from OTOH.....
here is what I did, and what I would like to do..

I first looked in F4 browse wich F-16 was
Tiger and looked up the CT recordin Lodeditor
what I did now is just changing the lod
from tiger into that from the EF2000
i did use the same lod# for lod1 lod2 end lod3 (for now)
it is still using the F-16 Vehicle record..
I don't think I can change CT record to a different Vehicle record (with EF2000s specific flightmnodel) yet I'm not sure.
Since I don't know if the the button in the
dogfight room is harcoded just to the specific CT number, or also linked to vehicle data..
If just linked to CT records we could have 4 differnt planes flyable in dgft mode..
ifnot.. only the 3models can be changed
(this would be less interesting)

Widowmaker

[ccc]

So you didnt add a new dogfight a/c, simply replace one viper's LODs.

Jerry can add more dogft a/c in that menu, right?

[Widowmaker]

well.... I did just what I stated..

If jerry can add them and make them flyable
I am there.. I'm just refering to the 4
Vipers that can be DIRECTLY selected in the Dogfightroom..

changing the models is easy
just as you say..

adding ac to the list of availble ac to flight against or with is what Jerry is doing
if I understand corectly..

yet I would like to have the for ac in the furball room to be four differnt ac model and vehicle data..

and why...
as I stated in a mail to you
and in this forum
I love the experimental F-16 ac
like the
AFTI
XL
Block 60
SFW

just replacing the model would be cool enough
for the dogfight mode
as the dogfigt mode is perfect for such a
undertaking..
yet having them linked to their own vehicledata would be even nicer..
if this is possible..

I hope you get the point as to were I heading...

Widmak

[hc_pookie]

OK - I think I see where you are going now - you just want to change the Tiger F-16 to use the EF-2000 3D model - correct? This is just for testing, right?

This sounds like it can be done. I *think* all you need to do is change the F-16 Tiger CT to point to the new LODs.

Here's what (I think) you will need for this:
1. Append the new LODs, either via F4Patch or LodEdit.

2. Open LodBrowse and make a note of the new LOD number.

3. Open the F-16 Tiger CT record, double-click on the "Normal" Graphic to open the Parent data (Size Information box).

4. Now click on the "LOD RES" button to edit the LOD1-LOD4 LODs to point to the new LOD record.

AFAIK that is what is needed for your Tiger F16 3D model to point to the new EF2000 model.

It sounds like you have already tried this and it didn't work, so there may be a problem since the Parent data will still point to the new F16 model.....

This really will only let you see that new 3D model so I don't know how useful it will be. The flight model is definitely a different story, much more work is needed for that to happen.

I have put together a little doc that attempts to document the entire process for adding a new LOD and this may be helpful.... the "LodAppend A-Z" document is in the F4LE yahoogroup files section.

[hc_pookie]

If that tiger patch process does NOT work, try doing it to the NORMAL F-16 model (or any other NORMAL aircraft) to see if even the LOD will be usable...

- Jerry

[Widowmaker]

hmm you're still not with me.
yet thanx for you effort

what you've described is what I did
I understand this part..
I got it flying under tiger as well as Shark..
difefrnt versions..
I got now the Camapaign bird(F-16) replacing Crimson..
this is all nice..

still what I tried to ask if I could also get a EF2000 flightmodel attached to Tiger
or am I limited here to the F-16 vehicle data??
(after further eXploration, I don't think so
)


hope you can answer me on this..
and again thanx for your effort..

Widowmaker

[hc_pookie]

Well I may not be with you, but I think we're on the same road....or at least in the same town! :^)

In short, I don't know if you can do what you want. I don't think so.

Each vehicle's CT record has an "Offset" and "Alt Offset".... The Offset is the pointer to the Vehicle record, and the Alt Offset is the pointer to the ACD record. The ACD data correlates to the information contained in the Simdata.zip file's \sim\AcData and \sim\VehDef folders. This ACD information has stuff like the flight model, etc. and also points back to the Vehicle record.

SO - while you should be able to configure the CT record with whatever Offset and Alt Offset you want, I don't think it would work properly. It would probably launch F4 OK but I think it would show the EF2000 while using the F16 flight data.


IMHO you would be better off to completely add the aircraft and work from there. You would add a new vehicle, with 5 new CT records (1 normal + 4 dogfight), and its own ACD data, plus all the extra stuff - it would be a lot of work, but I know it would function.

Furthermore, adding new aircraft will affect the databases that the RPG and F4Terrain stuff edit, so you'll need to define the EF2000 as a full-fleged project to ensure its database records don't step on any other records. I can help with this part.

- Jerry

[Widowmaker]

quote:Originally posted by hc_pookie:
Well I may not be with you, but I think we're on the same road....or at least in the same town! :^)

-- lol

In short, I don't know if you can do what you want. I don't think so.

--ok

Each vehicle's CT record has an "Offset" and "Alt Offset".... The Offset is the pointer to the Vehicle record, and the Alt Offset is the pointer to the ACD record. The ACD data correlates to the information contained in the Simdata.zip file's \sim\AcData and \sim\VehDef folders. This ACD information has stuff like the flight model, etc. and also points back to the Vehicle record.

SO - while you should be able to configure the CT record with whatever Offset and Alt Offset you want, I don't think it would work properly. It would probably launch F4 OK but I think it would show the EF2000 while using the F16 flight data.

-- ok.. so no option..

IMHO you would be better off to completely add the aircraft and work from there. You would add a new vehicle, with 5 new CT records (1 normal + 4 dogfight), and its own ACD data, plus all the extra stuff - it would be a lot of work, but I know it would function.

Furthermore, adding new aircraft will affect the databases that the RPG and F4Terrain stuff edit, so you'll need to define the EF2000 as a full-fleged project to ensure its database records don't step on any other records. I can help with this part.

-- ok.. is there a manual on how to do it??
I'dd like to look into it..
Your help would be greatly apreciated
since F4Browse is not yet my thing..
yet I would like to learn it for future undertakings
all info welcome..

- Jerry

Widmak

[Ice]

Your on a role here Widowmaker.
Now if you would just explain all this in Dutch to me, i would understand.
Maybe even put up a tuto about it on your new webspace.

Keep it up.

[Widowmaker]

Well on this issue...
I am not yet by far qualified to write a manual...
really there are alot of manuals to be written..
we'll see in a few weeks
well you've seen the sofar layout
so you probably guessed were I'm heading..

and again thanx for the webspace..


Widmak

[hc_pookie]

I've attempted to document this and placed the draft up on the yahoo group F4LE file space:

http://groups.yahoo.com/F4LE/files/

Look for the "LodAppendA-Z" tutorial.

I can't see the yahoogroups website this morning otherwise I'd send a direct link!

[hc_pookie]

Here's the actual link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/F4LE/file ... nd_A-Z.txt

[Widowmaker]

ok got it..
working on it now...
not as easy as texappend..

Widmak

[hc_pookie]

No it isn't. :^)

I think its much easier to see an example to learn it quickly. You may want to look at one of Ripper's 3D mods, or the Balkans theater patches - once I did it a few times, it became very clear (and simple)!

Just let me know if you need assistance.

BTW I've forced myself to sit down and work on a document that describes all the stuff needed to completely add a new aircraft. I should have a working draft ready soon.

I'll be sharing the draft on the F4LE group since it will be most needed there.

- Jerry