New Runways

Operation Desert Storm theater

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New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Simple question

have the airbase layours been redone for ODS. I mean I suppose there must be sand iso of the green korean texture.

Would it be possible to add new airbase layouts along the ones already existing?
Would F4 support that?

Another one, From the ID lists I see there is a GEN AFB airbase listed with ID 1509 Anyone has the slighest idea what this base is?

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RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Washout »

Hi Red Dog

Not 100% sure but I asked Jerry and Shawn to include a new airbase entry in the database files for my Airbase enhancement project. This could be that airbase.

Later


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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Thanks Chris
Any idea what is or would be the runway orientation on that airbase?

RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

quote:Originally posted by Red Dog:
have the airbase layours been redone for ODS. I mean I suppose there must be sand iso of the green korean texture.
My english sucks again or my brains are still in the sleep more, or I'm just plain retarded.

What do you mean by layours? airbase tiles? the airbase 3d objects textures?

Well simple answer to both is Yes. Zaggy has made desert airbase tiles and someone (damn I cannot remember who) made some experiments with desert runway textures.
quote:GEN AFB airbase listed with ID 1509 Anyone has the slighest idea what this base is?
Not me but at least you can take a look at the airbase tiles from this link.

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/docs/cate-airbases.php

I should add the 3d object images on there too someday.

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

:)
layours = layouts.
The general idea was to create some new airbase tiles to be able to use new rnw orientations like 13_31 for instance.

Now I don't know if F4 will accept it but consider that:
There are two different IDs for runways 02/20
02_20 Airbase ID 1773
20_02 Airbase ID 1777
Now that's the same rnw orientation. I assume (Yvo helped :) ) that the airbase layout is different (taxiway or whatever) thus tiles are different.

Now as far as I'm concerned having only one layout for airbases with 02/20 runways is more than enough.
We could think of using the second ID (for instance 1777 to create a new layout for airbases with 13/31 runways for example.

That is if we cannot ad completely new layouts with new Ids.

In the end that would allow us to always
stick to the real runway orientation instead of using only the ones in F4 at the moment.

RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/docs/cate-airbases.php

That link has now the airbase recon images, airbase subtype names and OCD ID's added.

Enjoy.

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Re: New Runways

Post by Washout »

Hi Again

I was planning on modelling Aviano airbase as closely as I could get it for the Balkans theatre. So it would be 05/23 eventually.

Later


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Re: New Runways

Post by Widowmaker »

quote:Originally posted by Red Dog:
(Yvo helped :) )
It is Ivo.... Widmak for all you Falcon4 freaks,,, :D

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Re: New Runways

Post by Widowmaker »

quote:Originally posted by Washout:
Hi Again

I was planning on modelling Aviano airbase as closely as I could get it for the Balkans theatre. So it would be 05/23 eventually.

Later


Chris
Great
could you handle Kevlafic too while you are at it.. ;)

seriously
I always hope to ever get to the point of making a new airbase
anyways first still 800 generic terraintextures to go..

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Re: New Runways

Post by Washout »

Hi Wid

My plan at the moment is:

Release Balkans
Work on the new airbase
Write up an Airbase Creation Manual
Beg the database guys to include more airbases for other theatres ;)

I may form an "airbase factory" unless I get side tracked by some other project ;)

BTW - Anyone know of a good resource for gettig airbase plans/satellite photos etc?

Later


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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

quote:BTW - Anyone know of a good resource for gettig airbase plans/satellite photos etc?
Yeah, got some decent plans and Jeps charts plus I have a lot of addresses with airbase aerial pictures

Have a look: RAF Leeming:
:)

Cheers

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Re: New Runways

Post by Widowmaker »

Nice images
could you dig up a image like that for Kevlavic???

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

So far, only an aerial view of NASKEF back in 1961:
Image

or a chart:
Image
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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

Red Dog, since you are the Falcon Airbase Expert I was wondering if you'd like to organize ODS airbase tiles also?

Currently we are missing some desert airbase tile-sets and I don't even have took a note which ODS AB tile-set goes to which airbase :)

We would need to chart how to best use what we have at the moment and what we would need to finish the ODS tileset. I'm not asking you to do tiles, just to organize them.

Of course this moves slightly away from the basic airbase list gathering, but just thought to ask you such organizing would interest you.

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

That would be logic for me to do it.

So long as you don't want me to create some new tiles (I really whish I could but I have not the skills)

I guess I have a pretty good idea of the airbase orientations in ODS as I work on the IDs list you sent me since Saturday.

I can organize the airbase tiles. I can even tile the airbase once the tiles are complete as I already did that kind of operation for SP3 ,with Ivo help of course (err, sorry Widowmaker for us F4 freaks :D )

So it's a yes.
Let me know or better, send me the tiles that are already done and i'll pinpoint the ones we need to convert

Cheers
RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Here are the list of airbases layouts that will be needed for ODS:

Airbase / OCD Id

36_18 / 1784
01_19 / 1772
02_20 / 1773
02_20 (2)/ 225
05_23 (2)/ 978
23_05 (2)/ 1779
08_26 / 1774
26_08 / 1780
11_29 / 1775
12_30 / 1776
30_12 / 1781
21_03 / 1778
32_14 / 1782
34_16 / 1783
34_16 (2)/ 979
HS NS / 226 (Highway Strip North South)
HS EW / 1807 (Highway Strip East West)
505 Wonsan/ 980
KIMPO / 1516
Sunan / 1497

I suppose we just need to tie that list to corresponding tiles to know which tiles set we need.

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RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Washout »

Hi Guys

If you are looking to change the airbase terrain tiles it might laso be a good idea to develop them in 512x512 and take advantage of that higher resolution.

"Kill two birds with one stone" english saying.

Later


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Re: New Runways

Post by T_Rex »

Also, somebody (Birdman I think) has suggested that runways in F4 are shorter than they are IRL. I have no idea about this. If this is true, would it just be a matter of including more "middle" segments to make them longer?
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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

It would indeed be nice to have the correct runway lenght in F4. at leat for major airbases.

The real data is already in the airbase list spreadsheet for all airbases of mostly all theaters.

But what a work :)
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Re: New Runways

Post by Washout »

Yes alot of the runways are shorter than in RL. We had to lower the fuel load on some of the heavies to account for it in SP2&3

I have some lengthened runway sections for some of the airbases. Problem is I need a tool whcih allows fine adjustements to be made in model positioning on an objective before I can position them correctly.

This is being worked on though so as soon as I have the tools we will see longer runways (and a bunch of other stuff) in the SP database.

Later

Chris

PS. Red Dog - Do you have a plan of Aviano airbase including dispersals and buildings? Satellite photo would do as well.

PPS. I understand you can get surveillance piccies from satellites quite easily these days ;)
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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

Red Dog, can you get me some kind of information for Tanker and Airlift squadrons in ODS 1991.

Dunno how the airlifts are used in real life but Falcon tasks tankers for airlifting if we do not add them.

Currently the campaign has KC-10 and KC-135 squadrons in Yenbo or what was the far most southern base in Saudi Arabia. These squadrons are without names 0th tanker squadron :)

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

mmmh
I'll check tonight for the tanker stuff.
initial thought i sthat lots of them may have come from Diego Garcia or Mildenhall in UK, but I may be wrong.

They staged B1 and B52 missions from Fairford as well I heard. but also needing confirmation.

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Re: New Runways

Post by KBMIL »

ok, here goes :

RAF victor K mk 2 : Muharraq Bahrain
RAF VC10 K mk 2 & 3 : Muharraq Bahrain + King khalid AIP Riyahd SA

KC-10 A : Jeddah/ King Abdul Aziz IAP SA
KC-135 L/R: Riyahd
Muscat seeb
Al Dafra UAE
KC-135 E (afres) : Jeddah /King Abdul Aziz IAP
KC-135 E ANG : Damman king Fahd AP
Jeddah /King Abdul Aziz IAP
Dubai IAP
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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

Any squadron numbers for those?

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Here is what I have:

1.SAC
Wing/sqd/aircraft/Homebase/Deployment base
2nd BW/32nd ARS/KC10A/Barksdale/Milan - Malpenza (Italy) and Zaragoza (Spain)
2nd BW/71st ARS/KC135A/Barksdale/Unknown
5th BW/906th ARS/KC135A/Minot/Unknown
7th BW/7th ARS/KC135A/Carswell/Unknown
9th SRW/349th&350th ARS/KC135Q/Beale/Riyadh Mil airport
19th ARW/99th&912th ARS/KC135R/Robins/Mont de Marsan (France)Feb-March - Seeb (Aug) and King Khalid Intl (Jan)
22nd ARW/6th&9th ARS/KC10A/March/King Abdulaziz AB
28th BW/28th ARS/KC135R/Ellsworth/ Al Dhafra (Aug) Seeb (Aug)
42nd BW/42nd&407th ARS/KC135R/Loring/Unknown
68th ARW/344th&911th ARS/KC10A/Seymour Johnson/King Abdulaziz AB
92nd BW/43rd&92nd ARS/KC135A-R/Fairchild/unknown
93rd BW/9rd&924th ARS/KC135A-R/Castle/unknown
96th BW/917th ARS/KC135A/Dyess/Incirlik
301st ARW/ ?? ARS/KC135R/Malmstrom/Masirah (Dec) Seeb (Aug)
305th ARW/70th&305th ARS/KC135R-L/Grissom/Al Dhafra (Sept) King Khalid Intl (Aug)
319th BW/905th ARS/KC135R/Grand Forks/Al Dhafra (Aug) Seeb (Aug) King Khalid Intl
340th ARW/11th & 306th ARS/KC135R/Altus/Al Dhafra
376th SW/909th ARS/KC135A/Kadena/King Khalid Intl
379th BW/920th ARS/KC135A/wurthsmith/unknown
380th BW/310th&380th ARS/KC135A-Q/Plattsburgh/King Khalid Intl
384th ARW/384th ARS/kc135R/Mc Connel/Al Dhafra (Aug) Masirah (Dec)
410th BW/ 46th &307th ARS/KC135A/Sawyer/unknown


Air Force reserve and USAFE and ANG and USNAvy and RAF and France after supper :)

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Re: New Runways

Post by Snake Man »

Good stuff Red Dog

Can you also give out another / / slot where you put your own "Falcon recommended AB" so it eases my judgementing of what to do?

Thanks ;)

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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Whatever you wish, snakeman

Warning - this list is being edited

1.SAC
Wing/sqd/aircraft/Homebase/Deployment base/F4 airbase
2nd BW/32nd ARS/KC10A/Barksdale/Milan - Malpenza (Italy) and Zaragoza (Spain)/AKROTIRI
2nd BW/71st ARS/KC135A/Barksdale/Unknown/AKROTIRI
5th BW/906th ARS/KC135A/Minot/Unknown/AKROTIRI
7th BW/7th ARS/KC135A/Carswell/Unknown/AKROTIRI
9th SRW/349th&350th ARS/KC135Q/Beale/Riyadh Mil airport/Riyadh Mil airport
19th ARW/99th&912th ARS/KC135R/Robins/Mont de Marsan (France)Feb-March - Seeb (Aug) and King Khalid Intl (Jan)/King Khalid Intl
22nd ARW/6th&9th ARS/KC10A/March/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
28th BW/28th ARS/KC135R/Ellsworth/ Al Dhafra (Aug) Seeb (Aug)/JEBEL DHANA Seeb is not supported
42nd BW/42nd&407th ARS/KC135R/Loring/Unknown/AKROTIRI
68th ARW/344th&911th ARS/KC10A/Seymour Johnson/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
92nd BW/43rd&92nd ARS/KC135A-R/Fairchild/unknown/ INCIRLIK
93rd BW/9rd&924th ARS/KC135A-R/Castle/unknown/AKROTIRI
96th BW/917th ARS/KC135A/Dyess/Incirlik/Incirlik
301st ARW/ ?? ARS/KC135R/Malmstrom/Masirah (Dec) Seeb (Aug)/JEBEL DHANA
305th ARW/70th&305th ARS/KC135R-L/Grissom/Al Dhafra (Sept) King Khalid Intl (Aug)/King Khalid Intl
319th BW/905th ARS/KC135R/Grand Forks/Al Dhafra (Aug) Seeb (Aug) King Khalid Intl/King Khalid Intl
340th ARW/11th & 306th ARS/KC135R/Altus/Al Dhafra/ JEBEL DHANA
376th SW/909th ARS/KC135A/Kadena/King Khalid Intl/ King Khalid Intl
379th BW/920th ARS/KC135A/wurthsmith/unknown/BAHRAIN INTL
380th BW/310th&380th ARS/KC135A-Q/Plattsburgh/King Khalid Intl/King Khalid Intl
384th ARW/384th ARS/kc135R/Mc Connel/Al Dhafra (Aug) Masirah (Dec)/JEBEL DHANA
410th BW/ 46th &307th ARS/KC135A/Sawyer/unknown/SHAIKH ISA

2.USAF Reserve
434th ARW/72ndARS/KC135E/Grissom/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
452nd ARW/336th ARS/KC135E/March/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
940th ARG/314th ARS/KC135E/Mather/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB


3. Air National Guard
126th ARW/108th ARS/KC135E/Chicago/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
128th ARG/126th ARS/KC135E/Mitchell/Cairo West/ Port Said
190th ARG/117th ARS/KC135E/Forbes Field/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
101st ARW/ 132nd ARS/KC135E/Bangor/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
157th ARG/133rd ARS/KC135E/Pease/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
160th ARG/145th ARS/KC135E/Rickenbacker/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
171st ARW/147th ARS/KC135E/Pittsburgh/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
170th ARG/150th ARS/KC135E/McGuire/unknown/SHAIKH ISA
168th ARG/168th ARS/KC135E/Eielson/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
136th TAW/181st ARS/KC135E/Nas Dallas/KING FAHD INTL / KING FAHD INTL
151st ARG/191st ARS/KC135E/Salt Lake City/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
161st ARG/197th ARS/KC135E/Phoenix/unknown/AKROTIRI


4. Special Operation Command
1st SOW/8th SOS/MC130E/Hurlburt Field/King Fahd Airport/King Fahdh Airport
1st SOW/9th SOS/HC130N-P/Eglin/King Fahd Airport/King Fahdh Airport
39th SOW/67th SOS/HC130N-P/RAF Woodbridge/Incirlik - Batman / Batman


5. US Marines
MAG11/VMGR234/KC130T/NAS Glenview/Barhain/BAHRAIN INTL
MAG11/VMGR252/KC130F-R/Cherry Point/Barhain/BAHRAIN INTL
MAG11/VMGR352/KC130F-R/El Toro/Barhain/BAHRAIN INTL
MAG11/VMGR452/KC130T/Stewart/Barhain - Jubail - Sheick Isa/SHAIKH ISA

Provisionnal Units
802nd ARW(P)/KC10A/Milan Malpenza/AKROTIRI
807th ARW(P)/KC135R/Mont de Marsan/AKROTIRI
1702nd ARW(P)/KC135R/Seeb/JEBEL DHANA Seeb is not supported
1703rd ARW(P)/KC135A-R/King Khalid Intl/King Khalid Intl
1706th ARW(P)/KC135E/Cairo West/Port Said
1707th ARW(P)/KC135R/Masirah/JEBEL DHANA
1709th ARW(P)/KC135E-KC135A-KC10A/King Abdulaziz AB/ King Abdulaziz AB
1711th ARW(P)/KC135Q/Riyadh Mil/Riyadh Mil
1712th ARW(P)/KC135E-R/Abu Dhabi Intl/JEBEL DHANA Abu Dhabi is not supported
1713th ARW(P)/KC135E/Dubai Intl/JEBEL DHANA Dubai is not supported

6. RAF
55 Sqn/Victor Det/ Victor K Mk2/Muharraq/SHAIKH ISA
101 Sqn/Air transport Det/VC10KMk2-KMk3/RAF Brize Norton/KING KHALID INTL
216 Sqn/Air transport Det/Tristar K Mk1/RAF Brize Norton/KING KHALID INTL


7. France
ERV93/esc 1,2 and 3/ C135F(R)/Mont de Marsan/KING KHALID INTL

RD
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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

All right one comment:

We DO really need to support Jeddah/ King Abdul Aziz INTL airport.

It must be just south of the map of ODS on the Red Sea Coast od Saudi Arabia.

IMHO, we should place it a little further north so that it's on the map because it's really an important airbase.

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Re: New Runways

Post by KBMIL »

don't you just love that copy of Gulf Air War Debrief...

greets Mil
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Re: New Runways

Post by Red Dog »

Indeed that book is great.

Better be prepared for it, because the next one is the Vietnam OOB. :D :D

Cheers
RD
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