New planes with LODEditor

[T_Rex]

Hello all,

I've not been around the VN area here much, but the ability to create/modify planes made me think of this theater. The addition of a few (err many) planes specific to this theater would be AWESOME!

I looked here, only to find there was not yet a list of planes people would be working on. I hope this is not too presumptuous, but I figured someone should start such a list!

So, once the real live editor comes out, I'm planning on working up 3D models for two specific planes (don't laugh):
1) the O-1 Bird Dog and
2) the O-2 Skymaster.

I know these aren't the sexiest planes, but I have an uncle who was in the USAF in Vietnam and I believe he flew (and got shot down in) these planes. Plus, I figured they'd be relatively easy to do and no one would get pissy if they weren't quite right.

If anyone else starts working on LOD edited models for the Vietnam theater, might as well add on to this post!

Cheers,
T Rex

[Widowmaker]

I would like to model they RF-101 VooDoo
aka The Widowmaker


Widowmaker...

[WOLF-257]

F-105D and/or G.
Got to have something to go downtown in.Yeah I know there's the F-4 but to me it just doesn't seem right to be flying over Viet Nam without a Thud.

[Widowmaker]

cool I posted a linedrawing on this jet on another thread...
http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/ubb/Forum ... 00066.html

Widowmaker

[brewskie]

This lod editor can do amazing things,
i see it can change the surface area of
the wings.

[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited May 26, 2001).]

[MAVDON1]

T Rex,
I'm in! Just had my first play with the LOD Ed, and doing it all by trial & error. So maybe that's why it has taken so long to work it out - it's okay, don't say it - RTFM. I know, but where can I find a decent tutorial.
My intentions, when I get this under my belt are as follows:

BLU-76 Fuel/Air Bomb (should be fairly easy)
A-1E/G/H (carrier borne too!)

Then maybe sometime a cockpit for the Spad.

All details, line drawings, dimensions, links for the above to mavdon1@aol.com please.
Talking of which; would it be a good idea for this forum to have a specialised links page, it could be categorised by theatre & equipment I suppose - everyone could submit their links when they find them useful.
Finally, is there anyone looking for something to take up? How about the Convair B58 Hustler?

Regards, Don Mac

[Com_gp]

well, i did an A-1 Skyraider, nothing serious, mine sucks and i just made it to fly in vnam, i still have to add pilons and stuff and it has many bugs (look throughs), here it is.



ComGP

[ccc]

very nice ComGP!
I suppose you'll on a/c again

ya, it from An2, right?
add some pylon slot, i'll do you some mk81.

[Com_gp]

well, i think, YEAH!!!, im in a/c again, yesterday i was told that i passed all the tests and... hehehehe, no more studing YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!, well, anyway, im still a little busy until june 15 but..., well, since the theater stuff is getting mess up with the lastest news i prefer to wait a couple of weeks, and this...
Well, this skyraider its not pretty good since it has many look throughts in the cockpit, i have to solve those problems and then ill add all the pilons that the spad has, ill modify the characteristics of the An-2 with f4browse (i hope to do it before june 18th, hehehe, if not... infogrames...) and thats it, a Skyraider, lets drop some napalm meanwhile the chopper rescue some pilot, hehehehe.

ComGP

[MAVDON1]

Com-Gp
Well that solves that one - right well, I'll get on with the PAVE PAT then!
Although if you are in need of some info or links for the A-1 Spad I can forward them, just let me know.

DonMac

[WOLF-257]

I posted on the General Falcon Forum but I thought I'd ask here as well.Where can I get a copy of the LOD Editor?Call me a glutton for punishment but I'd like to try my hand at building an F-105.
I was looking at the Mig-21 shape,if the wings and tail section can be suitable modified it might be a good choice for building a Thud.

Thanks

WOLF

[T_Rex]

I don't think there's a public release of LOD Editor yet, although there's a yahoo egroups board where the betas are available.

I've tried my hand, but haven't done anything good! I'm also looking for tutorials on generic 3d editing. All this talk of vertices and splits and nodes has me dazed and confused!

Later,
T

[ccc]

na, LE v2.0 is ok for the public.

everybody who interested in 3d modeling for F4 should give it a try. its the easiest way to visual your new model in f4 world.

if you got confused about concept of node, plains, etc. then let it go, just pick a small item, change its vertices value to see what happne. you'll learn better.

[T_Rex]

Good point. I think I'm trying to do too much too fast (my usual). Now if only I can figure out how to completely delete the lower wing on the AN-2....

T

[T_Rex]

Looks like the An-2 is a popular starting point. (Errr...I suppose its the only starting point for props!)



T


[This message has been edited by T_Rex (edited June 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by T_Rex (edited June 06, 2001).]

[ccc]

T
well done!
seems you learn quick in LE modeling!
and yes, AN2 is a good starting point for a/c like A1 or O-1. i've considered it before.
say, be sure to adjust all parameter, the o1 is definitely slender than that.
BTW, how about a ZERO fighter?

[T_Rex]

lol

I agree that my AN-2 will have to do some serious dieting and exercise to become a waifish O-1! I'm still not sure how exactly I'll do that - the prospect of editing all those polys is daunting. I think I'll just start at the back and work my way forward, top to bottom.

Overall, though, I have to say I'm kinda pleased! Now if there was just an easier way to append...

T

[ccc]

Dont worry about append your LODs. it will be solved later.
For now, you can enjoy your new shape flying in F4 world, check "fly all plane" patch, then use TE or campaign to fly An2.

[T_Rex]

Hey - maybe you can help with this-
my math sucks (ok - I don't think you can help with that part of the problem).

Since I want to make the body of the An-2 smaller, I figure I have three options:
1) use the existing polys to completely redraw the body - probably the best way, but time consuming because I have to think about how I want to re-do the polys, and may leave me with extra polys;
2) use the existing polys and subtract a certain amount from every axis of every poly - for instance if the coords are 3,4,5 - then take 1 off of every coord, leaving me with polys that have the same relationship with each other, only closer together; or
3) do basically the same thing as 2, but instead of subtracting a whole number, subtract a percentage like .333 - which would take 3,4,5 and make it 2, 2.6668, 3.3335.

I'm thinking of doing #2 or #3 (less creative thought involved), but I don't know which one is better, or if it makes any difference (well, I know mathematically it makes a difference, I just don't know about a difference in 3d modelling).

I hope this makes sense. :[
T "I'm no mathemagician" Rex

[Com_gp]

Well, i studied this like three years ago but if you want to make the model smaller you have to dibide each coordinate (x,y,z) of each point by a number (if you divide it by 2, the model will be the half of the original), this is almost the same than your third option.
Another one is multipliying each coordinate by a number smaller than 1 and bigger than 0.

Anyways, i dont recomend this things, i think you should finish your model first and whenever another version of LODedit comes along with the scale option apply it.

So you are doing the O-1, hehehe, we are gonna have many models of vnam soon.

ComGP

[T_Rex]

Well, I started looking at some of the polys, and I think I can get away with just changing a few, to look kinda like the O-1, and try to do some other stuff with the skins to make it look better.

Here's a thinner An-2 monoplane (aka O-1 wannabe):



T

[ccc]

I'll post my modeling trick for you T, just wait few hours. should save you lots calculation.

[ccc]

Take modeling O-1 for example,

1. grab a good 3-side view line drawing, and print it out. better print in larger size.

2. define the center of this O-1 model. you can mark its center with red pen as zero point of this coordinate system (0,0,0). now draw lines across this point to establish its X, Y, Z axis lines.

3. The coordinate system in LE is, a/c nose heading righthand, vertice X(+), tail heading lefthand, vertices X(-), wingtip close to you(top view) Y(+), and away from you Y(-), vertices below zero point, Z(+), above Z(-),

4. ok, now look at its wingspan, you measure the wingspan on this printed drawing with ruler, say, 5 cm.
and you know the real thing wingspan is 20 feet. Ok, 20/5=4. now you know you can measure any point on this sheet, the readings time 4, you got the real number in LE (unit= feet).

5.so, start from the rudder of O-1. In side view, you set few points accroding to available vertices in LE, then measure their coordinates (X, 0, Z), time 4, got real coordinates in f4 world in feet, ok, keyin the coordinates. you do a O-1 tail on An-2 shape.

6. dont forget to click "calculate normal" button, if you cant view some poly faces.

[This message has been edited by ccc (edited June 08, 2001).]

[ccc]

This fig illustrate the airframe coordinate system, you got to set zero point like this:
(the point is the reference point for modeling. once all model complete, you can easily shift the whole shape by changing its Offset values)

see? use ruler to measure those cyan point, get readings(in centimeter, or other linear unit), then time its scale.
of course, you can print out all vertices, completet the calculation, and keyin in one time.

BTW, you dont have to keyin too many digits behind the dot, like"
1.256789899

its quite reasonable to use 1.25, thats enough.

and, take care at those subtrees and DOFs, their XYZ coordinate system may somewhat different from the main airframe. sometime Y value in Z blanks, or others. just play one value at a time, to check its coordinate system first.


[This message has been edited by ccc (edited June 08, 2001).]

[T_Rex]

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
I'll post my modeling trick for you T, just wait few hours. should save you lots calculation.

Zowie Batman! You mean there's another trick? That seems like a great idea. FAS actually has the 3 view line drawings of the O-1.

Can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleeve. I had been doing a "that looks about right" type deal.

l8r

[ccc]

Fore more line drawings, i recommend:

http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/
http://avia.russian.ee/air/russia/index.html

http://www.az.ru/ryzgikoff/avia/PWW/PWW_RUS_Menu.htm

thanx to widmkr and JETnijia for links.

[ccc]

Just few notes for you using my LE modeling method:

1.better pick a default shape close to the size of your project. should save lots effort.
2.Print out 3 side line drawing, mark its center (0,0,0) and draw X/Y/Z axis.
3. when you mark the zero point, put it to a place where you can save effort to move many other vertices.
4.Be sure to caliberate the Y-axis. say, you chek a vert# on vertical fin, or nosetip, you can find its X/Y/Z values. if Y not zero, you got to fix this by adjusting whole shape offset. or you'll experience lots trouble to tweak width value.
5.tweak vertices at model's periphery first. then tewak those closest to center point, then those in between. Sometimes you could disrupt the whole projects after messing up all vertices!