New 3D Toys? X

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-14 16:27:00

I dont mind when they come... I shant be using the trees for a few weeks anyway... I'll be as patient as possible...

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-15 11:25:00

Hi Zaggy

Here's your latest tree fix (excuse the crappy graphics - it was the naff PC at work):

Clump should be ready this evening so more piccies to come.

Later

Chris

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-15 12:51:00

Ok couldn't resist one more as I got on better with the clump today than I thought I would:

Later

Chris

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-15 15:36:00

Very nice Mr Washout... those pics have inspired ANOTHER suggestion as well!!! How about two or three different clumps... ie. one clump like in the pic, trees moderately spread, another with them packed tighter (same size clump, just more trees int he same area) and a final clump in which basically you see only canopy, like a thick forest???

With this, we can transition from think woods to open woods to open ground... It would look excellent... and all using the same hexagonal clump area...

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-08-15 16:38:00

Looks just fantastic. You mentioned earlier the building sizes in ft and such, what is the latest on the scale of buildings/trees?

I mean, how tall are the trees that you've just made?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-15 17:07:00

Another CRAZY idea... Is it possible to have a 'shadow' under the tree's??? like as part of the skinning or something???

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-15 18:25:00

Hi Guys

Yes I have been thinking (and talking to Bob/Jerry etc) about such an idea and will probably try it soon.

I agree the current clump is a bit sparse so I'm going to thicken it up.

SnakeMan - The trees in the clump range from 65ft to 110ft - which while not the tallest you can get, are sufficiently tall enough to be seen some distance away.

The scaling on the buildings is wrong in alot of cases at least the textures they are using are. I see a lot of 5ft stories on blocks of flats/apartments. To correct these would be quite a task though so I have no plans to adjust them until I have least got the trees implemented.

BTW - I have been chatting to Jerry about putting the models in the Master Terrain Patch he is working on and having the skins and deployment as part of the theatre specific child. If we are successful you should be able to do tree textures more appropriate to your own regions and have deployment optional or to your own specification eg. Desert Storm may want dry scrubland species and not very many of them whereas Norway would want conifers mainly and lots of them.

Not sure if I mentioned this but there is still no FPS drop and the last screenshot uses 3 clump and 6 line models (there is only 1 type of each). I think I'll expand these to cover large areas as I want to keep the additional features need per objective down to <10.

Later

Chris

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-15 18:54:00

Hi

Forgot to mention about shading:

Having looked at the LOMAC shot you can see that they use a darker colour on the underlying texture. We could do this after the tree objects are placed in and around objectives easily enough (time consuming though).

Another method would be to add a shadow polygon underneath the current models. This maybe a possibility when I have figured out the limits of tree numbers vs FPS. Should be quick to do as well.

Later

Chris

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-15 23:53:00

quote:Originally posted by Washout:
Hi
Another method would be to add a shadow polygon underneath the current models. This maybe a possibility when I have figured out the limits of tree numbers vs FPS. Should be quick to do as well.

Later

Chris

Dont use this method. or you'll got some problem while placing tree on slopes!

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-16 05:14:00

I dont think FPS will be a MAJOR issue, unless youre talking MAJOR FPS loss on 1.4Ghz or higher... By the end of the year, most serious Falconeer's will be running in the realm of 1.2Ghz + anyway (except me probably... I'll be stuck with my 300Mhz..

)... But yeah, if FPS becomes an issue, just throw horsepower at it...

Have you tried tree's in the FLOT area, while flying over them in campaign???

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » 2001-08-17 17:17:00

You guys might take a look to some of this pictures http://www.alasrojas.com/Torneos/gma/AAS.htm , it shows some real close ins of A-10 and other jets and their weapon stations.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-17 18:44:00

excuse me, but which pic(s) on that page?

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » 2001-08-17 22:25:00

Well, don't you see them? I see lots of pics in there, you just need to search for the right ones. :p

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » 2001-08-17 22:32:00

Ok, i'll do the work for you.

Any doubts just contact me.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-18 01:03:00

thanx Hunter. these close-up shots are too sharp to use

btw, i note that adapter for maverick. another headache problem to model in f4.

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-18 08:42:00

Whilst were sort of off topic, anyone here know much about modifying airbase/airfield LOD's and fun stuff like that...

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-18 09:52:00

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Zaggy:
Whilst were sort of off topic, anyone here know much about modifying airbase/airfield LOD's and fun stuff like that...

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » 2001-08-18 14:59:00

Editing Airbases:

Yes, you can edit airbases. An airbase is an Objective which is just a group of seperate LODs. Each objective has a list of Features which link to a CT record which in turn link to the LOD.

The FED file contains the information for all the features within the Objectives. Basically the location and heading of the feature in relation to the Objective.

So to edit an airbase, you will have to edit much more than just the LOD. You will have to edit each LOD that you want to modify for the features and then adjust the FED data to put them in the proper location and orientation.

The hard part of it all is that the FED is in sequential order so adding/deleting is a bit more complicated but can be done.

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-18 16:09:00

Ummmm, yeah OK Dragon.... I think when the time draws closer, im going to have to talk in detail with you... ATM im just prototyping tiles and scenery and stuff... Hopefully prototyping an air base or two in the next month or so....

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » 2001-08-18 22:15:00

quote:thanx Hunter. these close-up shots are too sharp to use
btw, i note that adapter for maverick. another headache problem to model in f4.

Enjoy CCC.

You got my mail with F-111 pictures?

hc_pookie · Post by **hc_pookie** » 2001-08-19 22:19:00

Update for F/A-18 tails:
http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61127/f4terrain/left.jpg
http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61127/f4terrain/right.jpg

You'll see this update in the F4Terrain data patch....

- Jerry

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2001-08-20 03:25:00

Wow very very cool
The F-18 is looking awesome

Widmak

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-22 15:19:00

Hey washout, how goes the trees and forest???

I cant wait much longer, you know!!!

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-23 10:11:00

Hi Zaggy

I see I have you hooked now

More as I do it (I'm going to try an SA2 site next) and start the ground unit movement testing.

Later

Chris

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-23 11:55:00

washout... very sweet...

have you built any forests yet??? Cos thats what Im SOOOO waiting to see if we can do.... How cool would that be? Screaming thru valley, following a river, in an A-10, with tree's on either side of you...

If you can deliver the tools for us to do that, you will trully become a GOD!!!!

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-23 12:26:00

Chris, sweet trees!!

btw, a question comes to me, do those building, hangers, control tower built in right scale comprared to your trees?

I always wonder those buildings are too small.

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-23 12:39:00

Hi CCC

The trees are from about 55ft to 110ft and I know they are larger than average but not outside the realms of "realistic".

I have been toying with the idea of reducing the size a little and also with the idea of using more textures so the tallest are say poplars/pines and the smallest are deciduous.

What I have aimed at to start with are trees which are not too big to be realistic looking but also not too small so that your ALOW is constantly warning you of an impending crash in order to see them. I think I've got the compromise about right but maybe as I said the largest need to be conifers so that they don't stand out too much.

Another approach would be to create 2 versions a young and old model if you like to mitigate the size of the larger one.

(More work needed I guess

)

Later

Chris

PS. Bob Crawford is away on holiday at the moment so I can't show you the results of that venture yet but they are coming.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-08-23 13:14:00

Thanx Chris, i just wonder the real size of those buildings, not your trees

if possible, i'd like to know the dimension info of control tower and hangers.

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-23 13:51:00

Hi CCC

Sorry I gave you a politician's answer.

I'm not sure specifically about the buildings on the airfield but certainly the buildings on the "Junction" objective were out by quite a way eg 45ft tall building with 8 floors. Either that or the textures were scaled wrongly.

I have been thinking about a wholesale adjustment project to get the building models corrected but it would be a big undertaking and I don't have the time right now. Once I get the trees into the Balkans I will see unless someone else wants the honour.

The other thing that needs looking at is the position of some of the features in each objective but if I can I'm going to look at that as I place the trees.

Later

Chris

Dragon · Post by **Dragon** » 2001-08-23 15:55:00

I agree. I think what is missing big time from Falcon is the cities and buildings. I think we could some real "damage" in these areas.

Although there are a bunch of building 3D models, fixing them and modifying them would not take long since you are dealing with simple shapes. It could be done rather easily.

T Bone · Post by **T Bone** » 2001-08-23 16:39:00

Just a point of inquiry... why is your Viper's canopy looking as if it were made out of pure gold?

HotDogOne · Post by **HotDogOne** » 2001-08-23 18:24:00

Its showing his god like gold status

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-08-24 05:20:00

The gold canopy is a result of a crappy video card that cant render 'almost transparent' stuff... So instead, you get the 'solid gold' canopy effect....

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-08-24 09:47:00

Hi There

Zaggy is right the solid gold canopy is from my "work" pc which sucks ass big time.

This is how they used to do it in later versions of Falcon3 IIRC.

Later

Chris

Luke71 · Post by **Luke71** » 2001-09-04 20:13:00

Washout, any news about the trees? Can't wait!
Luke

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-09-05 08:51:00

*huddled in a corner, twitching... chanting to himself...*

"Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's... Need my tree's..." etc

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-09-05 11:20:00

Hi Guys

I've been real busy with the F4SuperPAK thing but have managed to get a request to Julian "Codec" Onions to add some feature placement functionality to F4Browse.

Basically the situation is that to populate the airbase in the last screen shot took me about 3 hours as each model has to be manually entered and then it's coords tweaked to get it in the right place. This involves flicking to and from 2 dialogues in F4Browse and then reconning the airbase (or flying over it) in F4 to check the model's position with respect to the underlying terrain texure.

What I am hoping for is the ability to merge all of these functions into one dialogue in F4Browse so that I can see the underlying textures and make changes instantly.

Until I get this I am afraid the project is stuck as to populate 700 objectives at say 6 hours each is going to take more time than I have at the moment.

If Julian hasn't got the time I may consider starting up a coordinated project (in the same way as I did for the Balkans tiling) to share the workload.

I'll keep you informed of progress when I have some though as there are talks about flying helicopters going on for the future and trees are a must for that kind of sim experience. Also the up and coming A10 mods will be able to take advantage o fthe enhanced low level/speed views trees offer.

Later

Chris

PS. I am not dropping the ball on this as there has been loads of positive feedback from the screenshots I have posted and I want to keep the LOMAC developers on their toes

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-09-07 05:52:00

So can we have the tree models anyway?? Let us the poor boring theater guys worry about 6hrs per tree, till Julian or someone can give us a better tool...

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2001-09-07 13:04:00

Hi Zaggy

I can let you have the LOD's/textures if you want (let me know your mail address).

Or if you are a member of the F4LE egroup they are there under the Beta Projects folder in the files section.

As they stand at the moment you will have to use LODEditor (or LODAppend) to add the models and textures to your current LOD. Then you will need a lot of messing in F4Browse to get them in the sim.

Let me know.

Chris

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2001-09-07 16:37:00

You havent got them done up into a F4Patch format yet???

I'll have them anyway (xavier_of_haar@hotmail.com), just to take a look at how theyre done... Whats the chances of a palm tree or something a bit Middle Eastern??? And how hard was the actual thing to make - just out of curiousity (Im far from a 3D person...