Georgia-Russia conflict..

Georgia theater

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Georgia-Russia conflict..

Post by ccc » 2008-08-12 05:48:17

no i am not stirring the pot. ,

when i heard it i rushed to check all theater mods.. oops it seems no theater covering the area.. Iran128 goes too east, ODS128 south. i think Agean mod(s) are too west.

anyway..here're maps.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwe ... _pol99.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwe ... _rel99.jpg
Last edited by ccc on 2009-07-19 13:04:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-08-12 06:40:22

Give me some interesting campaign scenarios we could do with this theater and I'll consider making up a 64 segment one ;)

Three good solid campaign backstorys and ground unit/squadron listings.
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Post by ccc » 2008-08-12 08:07:34

heheh Man i knew you can build one in seconds.. i just pop up a thought, not to ask for a new mod. relax.

say, Caspian sea area seems to be a hot zone for long time.. in the past, it's under the control of USSR, as USSR collapsed, Western powers reach Russian backyard for energy resources and military reasons.. today, thanks to rising oil price tag.. the BEAR is BACK.. and starts to show its claws.

back in sim history, i remember an UK helo sim, Apache-Havoc? did have a scenerio for Caspian sea area. Apart from the helo sim and PMC theater mods, i don't notice any sim featuring this area, or Georgia exclusively.

BTW- Armenia and Azerbijan seem to be even ancient and far far story to me..my impression is all snow-capped hills, farms, castles, and Dracula :lol: :lol:

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Post by ccc » 2008-08-12 08:08:50

as for campaign story - in RL i doubt Western darn to provide solid military assistance.. it's just too close to russia land - if NATO or US send fighters/tanks/soldiers there- it could be another Cuba missile crisis!!

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-08-12 11:51:54

Scenarios CCC, scenarios!

While you think about campaign scenarios with ground troops and air squadrons, here is screenshot of the area.

Image

I'm always the advocate for 128 theaters, but in this case I dont really see the need for that, 64 would do just fine, right?

Oh and I cant load the Russia Eastern E00 data to Dem2Terrain for some reason, dunno why.
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Post by ccc » 2008-08-12 13:46:00

WOOW that's really fast! :shock:

so.. no Russia data there??

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Post by ccc » 2008-08-12 14:36:19

campaign idea..

1. around 1991- USSR collapsing. Georgia want to go independence, russia invade to stop the splitting. Western powers provide air/land support for Georgia. in this case USSR power is relatively weak, like deafult korea-Tiger spirit campaign.

weapon quality similar to 1991ODS. AAM - AIM7.

2. modern day - CIS invasion with stronger power, Western assistece is limted. the power of both sides are relatively balanced.

weapon quality is modern day. AAM - AIM120 vs R77.


3. future - CIS almost capture all land of Georgia.. critical situation, like deafult korea-Iron fortress.

weapon quality - ? extensive use of stealthy stuff.

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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-08-14 21:13:48

Sent my version of Russia East to you, Snake Man. It's the file as converted by Zaggy. What file did you use ?

Russia East directly from the server is in Lambert Projection.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-08-14 23:11:42

I used the Zaggy files, I have Russia East, Central and West. I have no idea why it wont load.
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Post by Snake Man » 2008-08-15 06:47:05

Thanks 87th_striker for the file you sent, but it was the same I had, no go, I cannot load Russia East data.

Anyone have any ideas?

If we cant load the data, I dont think its worth to do this theater as half of it would be without features.
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Post by ccc » 2008-08-15 13:48:41

Snake Man wrote: If we cant load the data, I dont think its worth to do this theater as half of it would be without features.
err.. thats' really bad.. it means "eastern russia terrain" won't be doable right? :roll:

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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-08-15 21:27:26

It just means it has to be checked and fixed. Zaggy and Blueprint could do that. I think there's just some minor failure in the header. Check that first.

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Post by derStef » 2008-08-20 15:21:23

another small prob is the the georgian Airforce has ONLY 5 combat ACs in 2008.. pretty boring airwar.....

why don't we try to get the Iceland theater working?
there are MANY good scenarios e.g. like in Red Storm Rising.... very cool!
something like this or maby a bit bigger to have also the coast of norway....
Image
SM what do you think?

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Post by ccc » 2008-08-20 15:39:33

nordic theater is dropped due to poor projection at high latitude area.. i doubt iceland/lower norway area could do better..

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Post by derStef » 2008-08-20 15:42:11

ccc wrote:nordic theater is dropped due to poor projection at high latitude area.. i doubt iceland/lower norway area could do better..
what do you mean by "proor projections at high lat area? is it about the prob that we can't use the SRTM data there? or whatelse?

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Post by noname » 2008-08-20 19:45:02

From the SRTM page:
"Virtually all of the land surface between +/- 60 degrees latitude was mapped by SRTM. Processing of the C-band data took two years...."


Image

so iceland is not covered :(
-----------------------------------
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Post by derStef » 2008-08-21 05:12:15

so, we couldn't use the SRTM data for terrain evelation, but what about DEM and the other stuff? not exact enough?

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-08-21 06:29:00

This is topic for CIS Georgia theater suggestions, please keep your posts on topic.
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Post by derStef » 2008-08-21 17:09:44

ok, SM, sorry.


BTW IF you create such a theater u should make it 128 to cover also Chechnya and more of russia. so we can use it for CIS vs Georgia, and CIS vs Chechnya....


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Post by Couby » 2008-08-22 10:15:57

Such theater would be fantastic, and give the opportunity to organise a multi-simulator HvsH campaign (Red Octopus like, for those who know, it was a HvsH multi-simulator campaign organised in 2002 with Operation Flashpoint, Janes FA-18 and Sub Command) with both Falcon4 and Lock-On.

That would be great :) .
ImageImage

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-09-23 18:19:09

Its been one month with no updates here... can anyone find Zaggy or Blueprint to get the Russian e00 data fixed so we can build this theater?
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Post by Snake Man » 2008-09-23 18:58:59

Nevermind, I tried one last time... and by loading the russian features one by one, it worked!

Okay gentlemen, let me introduce you to Georgia Theater :D

Theater name: my_mideastbig
Theater size: Regular
Size (L2 segments): 64 x 64
Size (L2 tiles): 1024 x 1024
Size (Nautical Miles): 552.377 x 552.377
Resolution: 0.134858 Nautical Miles
Centered on: Lat 45 Long 42
NW: Lat 49.6031 Long 34.8972
NE: Lat 49.6031 Long 49.1028
SW: Lat 40.3969 Long 35.9558
SE: Lat 40.3969 Long 48.0442
Highest point: 18269ft
Lowest point: 0ft

Clean map view
Image

Features map view
Image

TacEdit map view
Image

There seems to be one countrys features still missing, I believe it to be Kazakhstan and one part of russia is completely underwater. We had similar problem in was it ODS and Europe theaters where I used CATE to elevate the terrain above sea level.

Also I just almost randomly chose the Lat 45 Long 42 position, is there better position I should choose?

Hmm anything else comes to mind from these first ever map view screens? :)
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Post by ccc » 2008-09-24 05:33:31

wow - great news!! 8-)

since Georgia terrain is ok, the map coverage is good for hot zone.. tho slightly lower to cover more Turkey/Armenia could give blue side more aribases.

BTW- does it mean Kurile theater is doable now? :wink:

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-09-24 06:59:24

How many degrees would you drop the theater down?

Kurile, well give me a center lat/lon coordinates and I'll make a screenshot for you (but thats for other topic, if there was other topic please reply there, if there wasnt, open one).
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Post by ccc » 2008-09-24 14:05:16

How many degrees would you drop the theater down?
err.. slightly. i have difficulties to get the center point readouts..

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Post by Rambo » 2008-09-29 00:35:51

Snake Man wrote:Nevermind, I tried one last time... and by loading the russian features one by one, it worked!

Okay gentlemen, let me introduce you to Georgia Theater :D
as you did??

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-04 21:51:48

Can we please get a decision on the lat/lon coordinates, I'd like to take the first step on creating this theater.

I'm still bit busy with ArmA VTE, but soon I'll have more free time and I'd like to clear my mind from ArmA editing by jumping into Falcon 4 world of theaters. So lets get something for me to do :)
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-05 12:46:24

seems i am the only one respond to your question - alright, the one you posted is good, do it. 8-)

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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-10-06 20:33:57

I was looking though Google Earth for some good Turkish bases, but they are on the edge...

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-08 17:11:24

Guys I ran into some problems... problem being the current map sucks :)

I didnt even notice it before (I'm blind), but when I started to edit the map it came apparent that its not very nice exact position what I had chosen. Lets take a look at the old images: Georgia - Clean, Georgia - Features and Georgia - Tacedit.

So when I started to edit the campaign files, I started to add the priority objectives (big cities to capture), it was clear to me that we are hunkered down to the SE corner of the map and there is wast spaces of empty real estate in the russia where nothing would happen.

Then I went and created new georgia, this time lat 42 and lon 44 coordinates. Now its on the center point of the theater, which feels natural and "focused" in my mind. Take a look:

Clean map view
Image

Features
Image

Code: Select all

Theater name: my_mideastbig
Theater size: Regular
Size (L2 segments): 64 x 64
Size (L2 tiles): 1024 x 1024
Size (Nautical Miles): 552.377 x 552.377
Resolution: 0.134858 Nautical Miles
Centered on: Lat 42 Long 44
NW: Lat 46.6031 Long 37.3001
NE: Lat 46.6031 Long 50.6999
SW: Lat 37.3969 Long 38.2059
SE: Lat 37.3969 Long 49.7941
Highest point: 18269ft
Lowest point: 0ft
So now I'm using this lat 42 lon 44 created terrain and will build the theater from there, unless someone has strong objections for this... but I really cant see how anyone would bitch about this change.
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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-10-08 20:56:47

I would say that it very much better !!! But you need those space shuttle data for the altitudes. (SRTM)

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-09 09:47:22

i like the new one. excellent! :D

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-09 10:30:04

Shes alive, Happy birthday Georgia Theater!

Fresh from PMC sekret codelabs
Image

Image

Very early work in progress, what can you expect at the first day :)

Now would be good idea to start lay out the ground work for choosing team's (CIS is himself, others we have to replace from japan/prc etc) and the three campaigns.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-09 10:37:35

wow.. that's fast.

for teams, yes we need..

CIS, Georgia, USA or/and NATO( as stationed in turkey or carrier), Turkey.

i don't think we need specific team for armenia/azerbajan and iran.. maybe put them as a whole?

there could be one or two "sensitive states" in georgia, be set as a country for campaign management?

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-09 11:40:25

For teams, reference this topic, has some good info (I love our forum).
i don't think we need specific team for armenia/azerbajan and iran.. maybe put them as a whole?
I guess we don't "need" them, but since we have only this many countries involved:
1 - Russia
2 - Georgia
3 - Armenia
4 - Azerbajan
5 - Iran
6 - Turkey

We can successfully add all teams into the play, which is very nice in my opinion. Its no matter that there is no war fighting elements in Armenia for example, who knows, maybe some campaign/TE maker wants to have more fictional scenarios. Btw the above 1-6 list is not by any means how I want to setup the teams, its just simply listing how many countries we have, hum.
there could be one or two "sensitive states" in georgia, be set as a country for campaign management?
States... no idea what you mean? There will be PAK areas naturally, but dunno if you meant those?
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-09 15:01:35

yeah i mean PAK setting.

http://www.stratfor.com/files/mmf/2/9/2 ... 24b485.jpg

maybe the two areas in pic above could be set as PAK?

btw - i suddenly realize Chechya is right above Georgia.. :wink:

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Post by derStef » 2008-10-09 21:11:39

Good work Snake Man!

keep on developing that hot stuff!

big respect to you!

cheers
Stef

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-10 06:38:36

Thanks.

You guys just tell me how to setup the teams (team number 4 is russia by default) and what kind of three campaigns to make, and I'll put the files together.

I'm just waiting for now the info about this before I continue.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-10 14:44:46

http://www.scramble.nl/ru.htm

the russian military district for this theater is north caucasus MD.

ac - su27 mig29 mig23, mi-8/17/24, su25, an12 and il76.


proposed campaigns..

1. easy - place much less ground and air units for both sides. CIS targets capitals of two independent states ossetia and the one close to black sea. NATO/US/turkey has more units and carriers support. in this case less CIS AA power, slightly more ground units, let blue side play more A-G missions.

2. moderate - more units, CIS targets two independent states and georgia capital.

3. hard - overwhelming CIS power, NATO force shows up later.. CIS captures one or two turkey obj near border to win. blue capture georgia capital to win. Armenia and Azerbajan, iran join red side.

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Post by derStef » 2008-10-14 14:38:02

Russia flew combat missions with SU-24, SU-25, SU-27, TU-22M3, Mi8/17 & Mi-24s... (one TU-22M3 was downed by a georgian SA-11, Russia lost ~10 ACs at all)
groundactions: 58th Army, 76th Air Assault Division and 45th Intelligence Regiment. ~150 T-62 & T-72 main battle tanks.

info from the british magazine "Airforces monthly"..

cheers
Stef

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