ArmA 2 VTE as "modules"?

[Snake Man]

Anyone who's played OFP and ArmA (1) VTE knows that its one big chunk of a mod, it cannot be separated. Sometimes there are requests from people that can they use our Huey, can they use one of our terrains, can they use one of our weapon etc... this cannot be done in the OFP/ArmA version of VTE.

Vietnam: The Experience was born with the SEB NAM Pack Air Module (NPAM), officially it was born from the ashes of NPAM but for me personally the editing started when I joined SelectThis in his NPAM project. So in essence, NPAM's purpose was to add a "module" of new air vehicles to already existing SEB NAM Pack addon/mod... and now VTE could follow these footsteps, so to speak, if we build ArmA 2 version with this module method.

I'm keeping my options open to build VTE ArmA 2 using the "modules" method. Meaning that instead of having X number of pbo's without configs and then one pbo with the master config for everything... we have for example weapons pbo (maybe even NVA/US weapons separated?) with its own config, stand alone so you can take the weapons and use them separately. Same goes for terrains, perhaps all the terrains would come stand alone pbo's with their own configs. Vehicles would be the same, perhaps even each helicopter type would be in one pbo, like Huey's in one pbo and OH6 helos in another.

If we now do the modules method and that gives possibility for users only to download what addons they prefer... it might get dicey that does any user made missions work as who knows which addons are used and which are not. Naturally all hardcore fans would just download everything just as in OFP and ArmA, but I have no doubts this module way would complicate things.

Pros and Cons, in my humble opinion at least...

Pros:
- Easy to separate the mod for individual user preference.
- Easy to upgrade the mod as there are many small(er) pbo's.

Cons:
- Much of hassle with millions of pbos.
- Much of tinkering to do with millions of configs.
- Required addons config horror (at least infantry using weapons, they are separate pbos).
- Sounds are separated to each pbo (weapons, vehicles, terrain).
- Mission making becomes problematic; do you have all the pbo's needed?

I'm sure there are other considerations too, but that's just out of top of my head.

Please feel free to post what do you think about this module method, good or bad. All feedback is much appreciated.

[banana]

In my opinion we should make it like a lot other mods. This means to begin releasing a small content of things at the begins. Be honest, the OFP stuff does look in ArmA II under DX 9 really bad and obsolete, then under DX 10 even worse.
So we shall polishing all the important things (As Huey, Soldier Models and Textures, some guns) and then release it. By time we update it with the rest stuff.
The option to let the whole config base on Modules is appreciated in my opinion because

+ If I just want to fly then I just load the vte.air
+So I can use the units in modern age, without having the VTE GUI; Water, etc.
+Of course just if I want
+Makes it easier to handle with when we have all the small configs in the pbos. So we can wipe out errors earlier

-I don't see them.

[Uglyboy]

What about:

VTE_Content ( units, weapons, vehicles configs and maybe ONE map) main and still big file
VTE_Maps ( speak for himself, all the others "extra maps" it annoyed me a little to have a dozen map in A1 maybe make this a choice and load "the better one " with VTE_content)
VTE_extras ( GUI, UI, Ambient sound, brownish water etc.. you get the idea )
VTE_whatelse?

[T_Rex]

Yeah, I feel like I've become familiar with OFP/ArmA culture now, and I think a good way to release is in chunks.

People can then grab what they want/need. It is up to you how "granular" you want it, but I would even suggest something like:
Viet Cong weapons/men
Viet Cong vehicles
USian weapons/men
USian vehicles -- maybe even break it down by air/ground
Other bluefor stuff
terrain
sounds (well, sounds that don't go with the other things, like weapon-specific sounds)

Then also have a megapack with everything.

[Snake Man]

Was thinking about this again today. Read this topic through and at least TRex's comment struck me that for certain I won't be doing both versions; modules + megapack. That would be just insane work.

Unless I misunderstood you that megapack would be just 1 rar with all modules?

I kind of like the modules way, we might even get to focus on certain addons better then, like "this month we are focusing on US land vehicles" etc, but the fact still remains that any module work is going to result in MP addon requirement spaghetti horror like already mentioned in this topic.

One thing that even I admit, is the upcoming terrains will be absolutely insane download, so if those would be separated a bit I'm sure it could help.

Anyways.. choices... choices

[T_Rex]

Unless I misunderstood you that megapack would be just 1 rar with all modules?

LOL

Yeah... this one.

Like what Solus is doing with SLX... only not to the same extreme. He's got what feels like hundreds of pbos for various things that are all somewhat intertwined. Yeah, sure, you can take some stuff out, but there are sometimes unintended consequences from it.

I think the "magic" number is probably 5 or 6 different stand-alone pieces.

Edit:
Hey SM-

I just found this:
http://dev-heaven.net/wiki/mikero-pbodll/PatchPbo

It can combine pbo files! Maybe it wouldn't be that big of a PITA to make a megapack?

[Snake Man]

Well the problem with "modules" goes way way deeper than just making a simple pbo. Making a pbo has almost nothing to do with modules.

I don't want to go oldschool with you, but I was already using patchpbo with OFP VTE so... no news for me

Again to reiterate the problem is that we have Vehicle that has a crew and the crew uses a weapon.

vehicle.pbo
crew.pbo
weapon.pbo

Three module pbo's interconnected with requiredAddons. I hate requiredaddons, big problems for multiplayer. I mean don't get me wrong, there is no problem when the addon is done right, BUT... what is the point of separating vehicle, crew and weapon... if they are... indeed... required... addons... sigh. See the dilemma?

[T_Rex]

hehe

Yeah, my n00bness reveals itself again.

It seems to me, though, that the interconnectivity isn't strictly required.

Vehicles = empty vehicles. If people want to load up Chernarussian insurgents into a 1965 USMC M113 APC, well, they can. To my knowledge, they don't NEED a crew to be released.

Same with weapons... although I agree that the weapons and units should probably be part of the same pack.

I think then a VTE core pbo, to go with the campaign/missions, would have the configs that set up the default crews and such. And, there would be some overlap - or redundancy - in some weapons. If you have a vehicle M2, you either need to have the weapons.pbo also, or separate (but identical) ammunition for the vehicle M2 and the crew served M2, which would be in the weapons/units.

Ultimately, though, I don't think anyone could blame you for preferring one big addon. There are trade-offs using either methodology.

[Snake Man]

So you want to have helicopter without a crew. Okay cool.

So anytime you create normal VTE mission with helicopter... you need to place huey and place crew, then name the huey "myhelo1" and on the crew's init line put:

Code: Select all

this moveinDriver myhelo1;

And do the same for gunners.

Then for the crew's init line you also need to add:

Code: Select all

this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addMagazine "vte_7rnd_m1911"; this addWeapon "vte_m1911";

So that is equivalent for our current setup or with normal modules setup, where you just place 1 huey on west - air.

Eh?

My money goes for the normal setup in any given day.

[T_Rex]

hehe

If someone only has the air module, then yes.

Is there a way that it could only show up as an "empty" aircraft with just the air module, but then have the VTE_core module have it "stocked" with crew?

[Snake Man]

Well... in theory it could be like air module only: VTE_HueyEmpty and then with air module, crew module and weapons module combined WITH ADDITIONAL AIR+CREW+WEAPON CONFIG it would create like: VTE_HueyManned

But... thats just silly.

Going through all these crazy issues, the 1 big mod with 1 big config sounds more and more better all the time.

[Uglyboy]

Also remember that you will end up making one big rar and others sliced little rars and with your upload speed that can be very long

[Snake Man]

No, as I already said, if VTE would go with module route, then it would be sliced and diced all over the place, there would be NO one big download anymore. Users would have to download gazillion small pbos, well perhaps some modules would be bundled together somehow like inf + weapons as already mentioned that they are required...

But... like said, modules way sounds more and more bad choice in the big picture and in the long run.

[Uglyboy]

Personally i prefer big fat rar download