Europe Theater is alive

KBMIL · Post by **KBMIL** » 2002-04-01 18:01:00

quote:if you add objectives to Belgium area and the export all of them including the existing ones, will tacedit handle them correctly when I import them back to the master .cam file?

when i last did object placing for Balkans (that's a while a go) i could just export the new objectives and the guy with the master could import them...
don't really know about the links and all
Maybe Julian or Manfred or Chris can answer that correctly.
Basically i think it is no problem to import the new objectives...

greets Mil

javanree · Post by **javanree** » 2002-04-02 01:05:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
I'm open to all suggestions, but at least the 128 would take lot of Balkans terrain...

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Well since it was Easter I had a few hours to play...
http://www.vanree.net/europe.jpg

From N65W0 to N45E20 (overlapping Balkans exactly one degree, Nordic one or two degrees looking at their maps, couldn't find their coordinates)

However due to a bug/limitation the topleft & topright area's are distorted. Even though the DEM data is sufficient (grabbed it from 70W to 90E) the area is "cut off" and the last scanline repeated. Used DEM2L2 v1.24 build 1, perhaps later versions do work...
Top left is easily fixed, topright is hard (Russian/Finnish landscape is rugged, areas where terrain goes from 0 to 2000m)

The DEM data is about 40 MB zipped, Snake Man if you want it mail me...

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2002-04-02 04:10:00

WOW!
Nice theater layout-- consider the density of air/land/sea forces at this scale, i wonder if F4 engine can run the war.. and it could take a whole day long to get in/out 3d world!!

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-02 09:45:00

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
consider the density of air/land/sea forces at this scale, i wonder if F4 engine can run the war.. and it could take a whole day long to get in/out 3d world!!

I have now seen multiple messages from you about "high density 128 war 0h no falcon can't handle it".

Have you tried?

What where your results?

How many teams were at war with each other?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2002-04-02 13:37:00

sorry, i should shut up repeat that again

BelgianTiger_5 · Post by **BelgianTiger_5** » 2002-04-02 20:37:00

I'm defenetly in, as I go to work next monday I'll see what I can find on Belgian armybases, tgt's of interrest, etc.
I'll send them to BKMIL as he is more experienced with tacedit and I'm stil in the "finding out what does what phase".
I'll do what I can to help out.
If you got specific requests about installation just ask and I'll see what I can do.
BT_5

Oliver · Post by **Oliver** » 2002-04-06 15:26:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
So if anyone have good info on european landscape where we should see forest, wet and dry farmland, let me know.

Hi!

I just sent you some images that should help you with that issue. If you need any more, for scandinavia or something, send me a mail.

BTW: what do you think of the 128 map that javanree has posted? I like it.

Bye, Oliver

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-06 16:10:00

quote:Originally posted by Oliver:
BTW: what do you think of the 128 map that javanree has posted? I like it.

The Javanrees map is bit too north on my taste, or maybe its just me... thinking of war in europe the first thing that comes to my mind is NATO vs WARSAW PACT in central europe and not some heavy knife fighting in backyard of Ivalo's Exxon

Heh no seriously, if you guys find a real good compromise with 128 theater coordinates for Europe, please send them over and I can try to make DEM conversion to see how it would look.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-06 17:30:00

quote:Originally posted by Red Dog:
I volonteer for all research on
All I need is a list of country implemented in the terrain.

Full countries in the map are these:
- Austria
- Netherlands
- Germany
- Luxembourg

Partial countries in the map (meaning maybe not every airbase is on the map) are:
- Belgium
- Checz
- Denmark
- France
- Hungary
- Italy
- Poland
- Sweden
- Switzerland
- Yugoslavia

That's the list. Some of those countries in the partial list are almost not noticeable, like Sweden. I believe there is one airbase, but thats all. Its the most southern tip of sweden that little peeks in the north part of the terrain.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Zaggy · Post by **Zaggy** » 2002-04-07 05:38:00

I was at one stage thinking about a euro theater, with some twists... The campaign i had in mind was a Second World War style confrontation/tactics/etc, just using modern a/c... Skins for a/c would be based on WW2 RAF/USAAF and Luftwaffe, etc... Could be fun...

Anyone fancy doing that for this Europe theater???

Widowmaker · Post by **Widowmaker** » 2002-04-07 09:53:00

well there are 3 campaign slots.
so I guess we should be able to
have 3 scenario's..

we can even have more then 3 campaigns
actually any number we want by using the switching mechanism in SP2

Widmak

Oliver · Post by **Oliver** » 2002-04-07 11:51:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
The Javanrees map is bit too north on my taste, or maybe its just me...

No, I don't care for the map stretching that far north. But we need the width. IMHO the UK absolutely has to be included. Also, did you notice how close the allied airforces get to the edge of the current Europe campaign.
The enemy territory needs more depth for deep strikes. Again IMHO, of course.
As it is, it doesn't really matter how far north the map stretches (well, I think having the Skaggerak(sp?) for ships to pass through would be nice).. Opinions?

Ciao,
Oliver

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-07 16:46:00

Ok I will look into 128 European theater size, maybe we find nice compromise between Nordic - Europe - Balkans where everyone is happy.

But in the mean time, can you guys focus on some basic campaign I should build for the first beta, what countries are figting each other (remember we can have seven different countries in campaign).

Suggestions, suggestions guys...

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Geb · Post by **Geb** » 2002-04-07 18:30:00

Lets see the big (128) Europe including the Nordic Terrain and France. That would be sweet!

Oliver · Post by **Oliver** » 2002-04-08 13:42:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
Ok I will look into 128 European theater size, maybe we find nice compromise

Is it possible to have an 64x128 map?

Cheap shot, I know

Oliver

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-08 15:20:00

quote:Originally posted by Oliver:
Is it possible to have an 64x128 map?

Nope. I'm currently struggling with merging the DEM's to get the 128 data converted.

I got no idea of how it works, been reading all over again the Javanrees instructions but you know me, highly retarded dumbie

PMC TFW
Snake Man

SuNbUrN · Post by **SuNbUrN** » 2002-04-09 11:58:00

I think including the UK is a must as the UK has a sizeable American Military Prescience stationed over here,
and the fact that form a strategic point of view the UK is ideal for launching Deep Strikes to Virtually any part of Europe.

Also including the English Channel and north Sea we could see some surprising and interesting strategic use of Navel Units if implemented

SuNbUrN

Cooler69 · Post by **Cooler69** » 2002-04-09 12:10:00

I think the UK may have one or two aircraft of its own that may be useful too.

SuNbUrN · Post by **SuNbUrN** » 2002-04-09 15:04:00

aye

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-10 00:13:00

Bad news about 128 theater.

I made 60 x 60 degree chunk of DEM data tonight, used the Javanrees method of copy /b three smaller parts together (thanks btw!) and when loading that big chunk to the DEM2L2 it somehow only displays the center of it.

I tried even scrolling the red box around the boundary of the map view, but when trying to transform button, it crashes.

Only if we had better DEM 2 L2 Spherical converter...

Few choises remain of course, to leech another set of datas and try to "align" the area more fitting to our theater, but still the red box would go over the map view I think due the north location of this terrain.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2002-04-10 02:30:00

Hmm

This is the best I can do with the current DEM2L2 and actually to think of it... dunno if the theater "feel" would differ any way if we moved it any more north. The weird looking lines show the distortion when DEM2L2 converter runs out of data (or actually runs out of map view boundary). Which is actually rather good compromise in this map. At west we only miss tiny bit of UK (sorry Codec) and in the east there is bit more of .. umm lithuania/estonia what ever country its there, it does not take that much out of it.

I just hate the fact that there is so much Balkans included. Its not nice to have two theaters overlapping each other...

Altough we could think that Balkans is 100% human tiled with hard work and sweat (including me heh) of tilers, where Europe theater is automatically tiled using CATE.

Hmm don't know about this... that above map is totally doable in day or so, but... I don't know...

Suggestions, comments, rants, flames... just give it to me.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

icebrain · Post by **icebrain** » 2002-04-10 03:02:00

Looks good to me... all of central Germany area included; enough of UK... should make for an interesting Fulda Gap scenario

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2002-04-10 04:23:00

nice layout.
In this one, the role of UK is mostly enforcing central europe battles i think.

For supporting Norway/Iceland/North Sea/GIUK, we probably need another layout, covering all UK and more north sea, for running more naval forces, tornado ADVs, and Bear or Backfire.

Intruder · Post by **Intruder** » 2002-04-10 05:11:00

Hi CCC

We can screw the Time back, and fly the Battle of Brittain

That should be only a joke

cu Intruder

Cooler69 · Post by **Cooler69** » 2002-04-10 09:06:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
Hmm

At west we only miss tiny bit of UK (sorry Codec) and in the east there is bit more of .. umm lithuania/estonia what ever country its there, it does not take that much out of it.

I just hate the fact that there is so much Balkans included. Its not nice to have two theaters overlapping each other...

Altough we could think that Balkans is 100% human tiled with hard work and sweat (including me heh) of tilers, where Europe theater is automatically tiled using CATE.

Hmm don't know about this... that above map is totally doable in day or so, but... I don't know...

Suggestions, comments, rants, flames... just give it to me.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Why not cut out Balkans by moving the theater North a bit, leaving the Alps at the bottom. That way, you could get in more of Scandanavia too.

Personally, I would like see the whole of the British Isles in there too. Then I can bomb my old house just for the fun of it

Location is here: http://uk.maps.yahoo.com/py/lg:uk/lc:uk ... wmag=3&poi title=&poi=

Notice Lough Neagh just to the East. Biggest inland lake in the UK. 10 miles wide, 20 miles long.

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-04-10 09:13:00

I disagree !

If you do that, southern part of France will be left out, and I won't be able to bomb my current house !

Regards.

codec · Post by **codec** » 2002-04-10 09:56:00

I want UK too, not only so I can bomb Cooler, Washout & co, but also just to see what it looks like!

Julian.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2002-04-10 10:00:00

Sounds like we got to center the layout on UK-France?

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-04-10 10:28:00

Yep, moreover, CATE is hard-coded so that it will refuse to work on any Europe theater where whole France is not there, LOL

Regards.

Cooler69 · Post by **Cooler69** » 2002-04-10 10:43:00

Yeah - I definitely want to blow the crap out of Skyfire's house now

Oh and Julian's too.

Either way, my current London home should make it in. Perhaps it could include my work building. Would definitely enjoy putting a GBU-24 on that

Skyfire76 · Post by **Skyfire76** » 2002-04-10 11:06:00

LOL

Where can I buy some SAM or AAA, so that I can greet Cooler on his way to Toulouse ?

Regards.

Cooler69 · Post by **Cooler69** » 2002-04-10 11:26:00

Well if N.Ireland is included, there are allegedly a few terrorist groups getting rid of some of their old weapons, including a few old SAMs from Gadaffi.

But that's another story.....

codec · Post by **codec** » 2002-04-10 12:56:00

"Roger Roger, Tally Cooler Location, Magnum.... Magnum,.... Magnum..."

"Damm - it appears he went to the pub early, RTB RTB"
:p

Julian

Oliver · Post by **Oliver** » 2002-04-10 14:14:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:

This is the best I can do with the current DEM2L2

Hi Snake Man!

That map is super! I'm all for it.
Just have to echo ccc here: with this map, the only thing the UK could focus on is supporting Central Europe, which we should aim for with this theater IMHO.
I do not think that the inclusion of the Balkans area is that big a problem. It rather gives us the opportunity to strike deep into enemy territory from the sourthern flank (north Italian bases).
This map also allows for cool naval battles with so much of the Baltic Sea and North Sea included. Really, just great!

If one day Multiplayer is working properly, this theater will be a blast!

Concerning a basic campaign: why not just use the standard Red Storm template?

One other thing: is it possible to get rid of all those "nowheres" and "noplaces" automagically or does that have to be done by hand?

Bye, Oliver

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2002-04-10 21:03:00

You'll never catch Cooler in the pub early as I always beat him to it

Chris

Luke71 · Post by **Luke71** » 2002-04-11 07:03:00

Snake Man,
go fot it. Please! That would be just great! I believe that this theatre would be most appreciated by the whole european F4 community, which is not small - just a geuess!

Most of the Balkan is included, but so what. This is a central europe map! By the way, wouldn't it be possible to use data/information from the Balkans theatre (with permission of the creators of Balkan, only!)?

Luke71

Washout · Post by **Washout** » 2002-04-11 12:47:00

Hi All

Just wanted to poke my oar in here for the benefit of those who are interested.

I personally have no problems with Snakeman's choice of area for the European theatre.

I guess that most campaign scenarios would involve a mid 80's eastern/western block war so the Italian peninsular would be more of a support role rather than the focus.

IMO The more theatres we have for Falcon4 the better.

Of course the only problems I do see is that te tiling from the Balkans theatre will not match the same area in the European theatre unless a way can be found of overcoming the spherical projection incompatibilities but such is life

Later

Chris "Washout" Carter

PS. I have no idea how the others involved in the Balkans theatre feel but I will leave them to speak for themselves.

codec · Post by **codec** » 2002-04-11 13:54:00

quote:Originally posted by Washout:
You'll never catch Cooler in the pub early as I always beat him to it

Chris

I heard it was your office these days, the days of "work from home" being replaced by "work from pub"

Julian.

Cooler69 · Post by **Cooler69** » 2002-04-11 14:28:00

That reminds me, I'll have to sort out another trip to the cruiser for Falcoholics not-quite-anonymous pretty soon.

Unless we get turfed out at the end, which has been known to happen.

BelgianTiger_5 · Post by **BelgianTiger_5** » 2002-04-12 15:34:00

We could have opfor forces already in the north completely occupying the scandinavian countries. In central europe a few hundred miles from the western most border from Germany.Then down to the alps where the opfor front go's a little east because fighting in the mountainregion takes more time and resources as it is easier to defend.

This can throw the UK aircraft into the battle to defend it's northern border from surface ships,U-boats,aircraft,deep strikes into scandinavia,...you name it.
And the other european countries defending theyre eastern borders from the overwhelming armored assault.(Armored forces should be the main opfor weapon, maybe we can upgrade the tanks to T-80's , T-90's, BTR-90, etc....
Dunno if it's posible just a proposition.
I have done 4 missions inex yougoslavia and I'll be leaving for my fifth mission to Kosovo in late july so any questions you have, just shoot.
If I don't know the answers myself, I'll see if I can look em up.

Regards,
BT_5

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