Falcon Versions versus Editing - the mess sorted out

[Sherlock]

I know.

I'm just answering his questions.

I guess I should point out that there have been community mods released - both for old F4 and AF - without any repercussions.

So, the threats do appear to have been empty.

Well, if they haven't done anything yet, my post of the modified AF strategy.scf file in the pak map discussion thread should bring them out of the woodwork... Of course, it bares an uncanny resemblance to the SP4.2 strategy.scf file...

[Snake Man]

For crying out loud, those piece of quotes were priceless. I cannot believe that the good old editing guys are behind this, heh so sad...

T, thanks for digging up that data for me, it opened eyes for me regarding LP even more.

[T_Rex]

Yeah, it was a real surprise at the time, even. There's more, but it gets repetitive after awhile....

Life goes on.

F4 is far from dead.

[87th_striker]

Yeah, it was a real surprise at the time, even. There's more, but it gets repetitive after awhile....

Life goes on.

F4 is far from dead.

Yeah, that's good news

[Snake Man]

Just wanted to post that now I have Falcon 4.0 + SP4.2 (one click installer) installed as well as Falcon 4 Allied Force v1.09.

Now I'm off to see what is the real editing situation between these two, altough its already been noted how grim the situation is with F4AF file changes etc.

[Snake Man]

Quick overview is the huge compatibility with SP4.2 against AF, but on the downside I already had few CTD's with SP4.2 when doing some minor testing. But I guess I'm just spoiled of OFP super stable performance and I've forgotten how much F4 really CTD's all the time.

At the moment the balance definitely is in SP4.2 favour as AF is handicapped with the file format changes, its darn difficult to edit it if none of the tools work.

[Snake Man]

Added two more Open Falcon 4.3 download links from Piratebay into the first post.

[T_Rex]

Hey, I was just wondering what interest there might be in supporting theaters in RV?

I'm working on installers for previously released theater packages for RV.

[Snake Man]

As its been said quite few times in quite few forums already, PMC is back in theater development and the mentioned theaters (and then some) will get newer versions as soon as we get around to it.

At the moment in all public exes there still is the 128 theater map threat circle (ADA?) CTD bug, apparently you guys fixed the 128 theater weather bug in RV (is it "fixed" or just new engine feature, dunno but still, good job). And of course the Add Package feature would be just awesome. While this add package is not directly theater related, we all know how many users have been whining about <theatername> not scheduling enough flights, which would be immediately fixed with this feature.

I can't give you any dates when newer theater versions are available, but in a nutshell I'd lean towards it that you would be much better spending your time elsewhere than making installers for the old (yet latest) theater releases.

[Sherlock]

As its been said quite few times in quite few forums already, PMC is back in theater development and the mentioned theaters (and then some) will get newer versions as soon as we get around to it.

At the moment in all public exes there still is the 128 theater map threat circle (ADA?) CTD bug, apparently you guys fixed the 128 theater weather bug in RV (is it "fixed" or just new engine feature, dunno but still, good job).

I don't get this CTD in the ODS version for AF.....? Just wondering....

[Snake Man]

Wow indeed its been fixed by LP, heh I never even thought about trying it in F4AF since the LP team has been so reluctant to support anything, I just assumed that they surely have not fixed it. Very nice.

So T Rex, does this motivate you RedViper guys to fix the threat circles too?

[T_Rex]

It certainly doesn't hurt to mention it....

Actually, your "warning" about making installers for potentially obsolete theaters raises another area for collaboration. The exercise of building installers has been good for me to learn new things about NSIS. I squeezed a 1.4 gb install of Europe down to 200 mb. I also learned how to add the theater.lst lines with the installer.

Sure, some of you guys probably already knew how to do this, but it was neat for me to learn!

What sort of installer-system are you planning on using for the theaters?

The resurgence of theater-building for F4 has me VERY excited.

[Snake Man]

Actually, your "warning" about making installers for potentially obsolete theaters raises another area for collaboration.

Heh yeah, again I have to say that there is no release dates, but surely new versions are on their way. Past few days I've been busy with the Iran theater, some people have let me know they have great interest on Vietnam and Sherlock is the man for ODS enthusiasm here. So dunno when and what comes out.

I squeezed a 1.4 gb install of Europe down to 200 mb.

Hmm not sure what you mean by this, most of the space in theaters will be from the theater.L0 etc and fartiles.raw files, those arent to be added into the installer/download. For europe even the 200mb sounds excessive, I mean the original release was like few megs I think?

What sort of installer-system are you planning on using for the theaters?

Honestly I havent thought about it yet, for certainly it will not modify registry and it has to be very seamless. I'd go for just rar into F4 dir but there has to be some sort of tinkering, if not else than just running a batch file to copy stuff and/or run sptinstall etc.

Remains to be seen how will the final download/install be handled.

The resurgence of theater-building for F4 has me VERY excited.

Me too. Been having great time on Iran theater, today I chuckled that perhaps I should try some Korean campaign missions for a change to get some bearings how to original plays.

[T_Rex]

The only "trick" with a theater installer is adding the line(s) to the theater.lst. What I did was have the installer check to make sure the lines weren't already there. If they are there, prompt the user to make sure they want to over-write the theater.

I agree, the installer shouldn't mess with the registy. (Although... it could prompt the user if they want to make the new theater the current one, and if they do, change the registry entry so the next time they enter F4, the new theater will be current.)

Historically, theaters were released with only the L2 (and O2, maybe) and use SPTinstaller to build the other levels. But, that is timeconsuming for the user, and in my experience somewhat prone to errors. You may notice that RV is packaged with all the terrain levels "built in." With broadband, there isn't much difference between 50mb and 250. An informal poll I did suggested that people only get concerned around 500 mb. And with the LZMA compression of NSIS, I dropped the 400mb L0 of Europe down to about 10mb IIRC. I was amazed.

[Sherlock]

The only "trick" with a theater installer is adding the line(s) to the theater.lst. What I did was have the installer check to make sure the lines weren't already there. If they are there, prompt the user to make sure they want to over-write the theater.

I agree, the installer shouldn't mess with the registy. (Although... it could prompt the user if they want to make the new theater the current one, and if they do, change the registry entry so the next time they enter F4, the new theater will be current.)

Historically, theaters were released with only the L2 (and O2, maybe) and use SPTinstaller to build the other levels. But, that is timeconsuming for the user, and in my experience somewhat prone to errors. You may notice that RV is packaged with all the terrain levels "built in." With broadband, there isn't much difference between 50mb and 250. An informal poll I did suggested that people only get concerned around 500 mb. And with the LZMA compression of NSIS, I dropped the 400mb L0 of Europe down to about 10mb IIRC. I was amazed.

Well, just to add another datapoint: AF was distributed on the CD with all L* levels already there (no SPTInstall/AFTInstall sequence). So it looks like a trend!

[T_Rex]

hehehe

One thing you can credit those guys with is blazing trails....

[Malc]

Hey, I was just wondering what interest there might be in supporting theaters in RV?

I'm working on installers for previously released theater packages for RV.

I think all we need to know is what files are changed, etc. Not many I guess? I'm rather keen on seeing Panama in there!

[T_Rex]

Speaking of which... ... one of our FF archivists linked me to an older Panama installer. But, I'm figuring there's simpy MUST be a newer version.

I'd love to see that for RV. The F3 theater rocked! (Oh, and is that graphic I did for you still in there? Zowie, that had to have been about 3 years ago or so!)

And thanks for the link to the utility, I'd love to compare notes on that, too.

:thumbs:

[Malc]

Speaking of which... ... one of our FF archivists linked me to an older Panama installer. But, I'm figuring there's simpy MUST be a newer version.

I'd love to see that for RV. The F3 theater rocked! (Oh, and is that graphic I did for you still in there? Zowie, that had to have been about 3 years ago or so!)

And thanks for the link to the utility, I'd love to compare notes on that, too.

:thumbs:

I have most releases (there's been few versions - AF, OF, BMS103, BMS2SP42, F4Panama_v2; can't find Panama_Sampler though) here still available. I can send you pretty much any version, but what I should really do is use the AF version as a basis for RV, its got the best terrain which was updated for HiTilesAF. Also updating campaigns and stuff currently, though this is going quite slowly.

I also have graphics here I made myself. They look fine in PSP but just don't do it in-sim I guess art and me will never make good bed-fellows. Got any graphic artists in the FF team who might wanna look at them?

Just for clarity - can you check the time and size for lstupdate.exe I sent you? After Snake Man checked it out, we changed one small thing. File should be timed 11:44.18 and size is 24,576 bytes. The last version is linked to on this sites downloads page.

If you PM me your email (I know - I used to have it but that before the crash...) I'll send you the VB6 source for it if you like.

PS - Hell yeah, I even credited you in the readme for AF!

[T_Rex]

I can send you pretty much any version, but what I should really do is use the AF version as a basis for RV, its got the best terrain which was updated for HiTilesAF. Also updating campaigns and stuff currently, though this is going quite slowly.

Yeah, I hear you. Hey - does Panama use the Korean tiles? Maybe just copy whatever the Korean tiles are into the Panama tile folder?

Got any graphic artists in the FF team who might wanna look at them?

You know us - EyeCandyOnly!

Just for clarity - can you check the time and size for lstupdate.exe I sent you? After Snake Man checked it out, we changed one small thing. File should be timed 11:44.18 and size is 24,576 bytes. The last version is linked to on this sites downloads page.

Ahh, no I got an earlier one. I'll get the right one. :thumbs:

If you PM me your email (I know - I used to have it but that before the crash...) I'll send you the VB6 source for it if you like.

Rgr.

PS - Hell yeah, I even credited you in the readme for AF!

LOL

I think that's called "irony."

[Closter]

Malc, if you need it, I have Panama_sampler.zip for you here.

[Snake Man]

Guys, we have whole area for Panama discussions. Lets keep this topic on about the editing of the different Falcon versions, thanks.