PMC Tactical is back in Theater development!

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-10 19:26:18

PMC Tactical is back in Theater development!

For anyone who don't know, I retired 2003 after the SP5/ViperOps development was shutdown. I spend alot of time editing Operation Flashpoint while I kept totally out of Falcon scene. Now at end of last year when we did update our web sites and forum software, I got into Falcon 4 scene again, semi unintentionally.

Ever since then I have been reading the old forum topics and stuff in our site while testing out the various Falcon versions available. I had no intentions but it just happened, I got into editing F4 again, just for fun... this fun then took over and brought back all the good old memories. I was hooked, again.

So now at January 2007 its time to make a comeback to Falcon 4 Theater scene!

Its PMC's plan to develop and release new versions of these theaters:
Afghanistan
Europe
Nevada
Operation Desert Storm
Vietnam

They would include fixed terrain tiling, terrain tiles, campaigns, campaign victory conditions, kneemaps, tacan information, user interface and possible database tweaks. To simplify theater installs I'm going to unify the install method/path which keeps F4 dir clean and theaters easy to maintain/find etc.

The PMC site will be updated for any tutorials that require new information or just to clean up the existing information. Much of the large database of information from our forum will be transferred to easily read web page tutorials.

Currently I have had discussions with Red Dog to update the kneemaps and tacan lists for the theaters. I will offer invitation to other people interested on helping to develop theaters, the more people will help the more quicker we get some results.

So thats about it, I truly believe that year 2007 will be the most glorious year in Falcon development.

PMC Tactical
http://www.pmctactical.org

January 11th, 2007.
Snake Man, PMC.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-10 20:11:17

Yeeeeeehah!

Glad to hear it SM!

What version(s) of Falcon are you planning to develop the theaters for?

Couby · Post by **Couby** » 2007-01-10 22:18:24

Great news

!

Fafa · Post by **Fafa** » 2007-01-10 22:25:53

Falcon 4 PMC Rules !!!!

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 2007-01-11 01:04:05

YES!!!

Which version of Falcon will these be for?

Peled · Post by **Peled** » 2007-01-11 05:20:08

I See Santa brought someone from the past , back into buisenness

That's Great SnakeMan !

Peled.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-11 09:02:02

great. which one comes first?

theaters using existing database should take less time and effort.. those need extensive database editing will take longer.. tho i prefer Vnam comes first.

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-11 12:07:03

What version(s) of Falcon are you planning to develop the theaters for?
Which version of Falcon will these be for?

That is still to be decided for. I don't know yet.

Altough nice thing is that for example L2 terrain textures & tiling is universal, it does not matter which version you use, the CATE configs and tiling error fixing is still the same.

Art files are different on pretty much all versions. Campaign directory files are mostly different, ie F4AF uses different teplanes.lst etc, easy fix but still causes hassle for any releases. And I don't even dare to mention databases...

Its a mess, but we'll sort it out.

theaters using existing database should take less time and effort.. those need extensive database editing will take longer.. tho i prefer Vnam comes first.

Initially I was thinking of releasing fixed Nevada for F4AF with this announcement, but then thought that I rather plan it thoughly than just do Hype Advertize crap.

I don't know which one would be released first, it really depends of how large edits will be done initially.

I did have the vision of taking ODS as the main theater which would be the first to reach v1.0 status since its the most hottest item, you cannot turn TV on tonight without seeing Iraq in the headlines. There has been TWO wars now so it is the most active and hey, Iran is just around to corner. Perhaps we need to make ODS 256 in reality?

The mostly user enjoyment enhancing fixes will be the terrain tiling fixing by tweaked CATE configs (hand made bitmap painting and conf's) and some hand tiling on most difficult locations around airbases and important targets. Then the campaign ending triggers to make sure they are possibly to win, seems like most of the beef ODSAF guys got at Frugals forum was from non-working campaigns, which in itself is strange as original 1991 ODS campaign works ok. Oh well.

One thing I want to make clear; anyone who knows me or has read the history from this forum, this development is not going to be "coming in 2009" stuff, I'm seriously thinking of really soon released first fixes and developments. I can't and won't set any dates, but trust me, you don't have to wait too long to get some good stuff from PMC.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-11 13:49:47

cool. so ODS probably the first hit..

apart from terrain work, you better pick the exe/database version ASAP, so all campaigns can be tweaked/re-directed to correct items accordingly.

time to re-capture Kuwait city.

Closter · Post by **Closter** » 2007-01-11 13:51:17

Bravo, Snake Man!

I am very glad of your return to the theater making. Your website is the absolute reference in our job and if someone is able to make things roll again, that is you.

I am not an expert at all, but count on me if you need some help.

lamurt · Post by **lamurt** » 2007-01-11 14:11:45

ccc wrote:....ime to re-capture Kuwait city...

...and blow up more than 3000 iraqi tanks!

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-11 16:19:14

Ok, so as to not loose any time in getting started, here is a post (that I crossposted at Frugals previously) that can start the discussion on what needs to be done to the terrain tiles for ODS to get it looking "retail like":

1. Transition tiles from coastline to forest (none existent).
2. 3 way transition tiles for all terrain types.
3. Airbase background tiles are desparately in need of upgrade. Especially the gawdy Orange-ish ones that don't match the sand colored desert tiles...
4. Existing terrain types need roads better defined, e.g., irrigated farming tiles -- you can't see the roads on them at all (even when flying very low).
5. Road tiles around airbases need to be made -- call this a bitch and moan on my part but IMHO, for realism sake, there should be roads going and coming from all airbases instead of them sitting out in the middle of nowhere with no connecting roads.
6. New river tiles need to be made to allow for wider rivers like the the Nile (Egypt) and Euphrates rivers (Iraq-where it empties into the Persian Gulf), etc. The current river tiles are only for narrow rivers.
7. Unique tiles like static SAM sites, depot locations, army base locations, etc.

Malc · Post by **Malc** » 2007-01-11 18:51:56

Hey,

Great initiative Snake Man - welcome back!

If Europe is on the agenda, it may be worth getting in touch with Qaz, as he made some gorgeous tiles for the apparently ill-fated OF Europe theater. Gotta be worth an email at least?

Couby · Post by **Couby** » 2007-01-11 19:56:22

If help needed for the deployement or porting to OF, I would be happy to help

.

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-12 06:24:11

ccc wrote:you better pick the exe/database version ASAP

I noticed you moved into FF. Can you tell me, in your opinion, what are the Pros & Cons for FF3.1 and lets say F4AF?

Closter wrote:I am not an expert at all, but count on me if you need some help.

Thanks. I guess the initial kickstart would be to open bug reports topics to each of the theater areas and post all known bugs into them. I mean to go around looking for bug reports in Frugals, Simhq and FreeFalcon forums for example.

Is there any other major forums around btw?

Sherlock wrote:what needs to be done to the terrain tiles for ODS to get it looking "retail like":
2. 3 way transition tiles for all terrain types.

Or hand made CATE bitmap to avoid three way transitions, if possible.

3. Airbase background tiles are desparately in need of upgrade.

Agreed.

4. Existing terrain types need roads better defined, e.g., irrigated farming tiles -- you can't see the roads on them at all (even when flying very low).

And would you know anyone with artistic skill to edit the tiles? I sure can't do that

5. Road tiles around airbases need to be made -- there should be roads going and coming from all airbases instead of them sitting out in the middle of nowhere with no connecting roads.

Agreed.

6. New river tiles need to be made to allow for wider rivers like the the Nile (Egypt) and Euphrates rivers (Iraq-where it empties into the Persian Gulf), etc. The current river tiles are only for narrow rivers.

I already did some experimenting for Tigris and Euphrates by using ocean tiles. I'll have to see how that experiment looks like. But yeah I agree with this point also.

Malcolm Hutcheon wrote:Qaz, as he made some gorgeous tiles for the apparently ill-fated OF Europe theater. Gotta be worth an email at least?

Can you contact him? Where does he hang out? He's using just "Qaz" as a name (I've noticed that its more of a rule to use different names for whatever reason in different forums, I never understood why is that)? And you can also PM me the email address of course.

Couby wrote:If help needed for the deployement or porting to OF, I would be happy to help

Thanks I'll keep your offer in mind.

Raptorman · Post by **Raptorman** » 2007-01-12 12:19:38

Snake Man wrote:Can you contact him? Where does he hang out? He's using just "Qaz" as a name (I've noticed that its more of a rule to use different names for whatever reason in different forums, I never understood why is that)? And you can also PM me the email address of course.

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/member.php?u=9462

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-12 13:40:32

Snake Man wrote:
ccc wrote:you better pick the exe/database version ASAP
I noticed you moved into FF. Can you tell me, in your opinion, what are the Pros & Cons for FF3.1 and lets say F4AF?

to sum up, from a modeller's view i prefer FF/OF/SP. AF locked the database, make modders really upset.

if your theaters won't need database tweak- and use ac of modern era, it makes no-or little differences among exe versions.

if your theaters need extensive database editing to fit their campaigns, you need open-database.

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2007-01-12 14:04:42

Guys, I highly recommend using Google Earth for tiling. You can get hi-res, photo real screencaps, and then coordinate them into seamless tiles.

Also, I highly recommend this place:
http://combat360.org/forum/

For cutting edge F4 theater stuff.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-12 15:22:57

photorealistic tiles.. bring up another thought..

in original falcon/SP series, IIRC the tile uplimit is 4096. i dunno if AF change this.
FF/cobra exe can handle tiles over 4096.. tho nobody ever create so many new tiles.

this limitation won't stop you using some exe, just control the total tile# under the limit, and use new tiles in areas of interest.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-12 15:54:41

ccc wrote:
Snake Man wrote:
ccc wrote:you better pick the exe/database version ASAP
I noticed you moved into FF. Can you tell me, in your opinion, what are the Pros & Cons for FF3.1 and lets say F4AF?
to sum up, from a modeller's view i prefer FF/OF/SP. AF locked the database, make modders really upset.

if your theaters won't need database tweak- and use ac of modern era, it makes no-or little differences among exe versions.

if your theaters need extensive database editing to fit their campaigns, you need open-database.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you here CCC. LP did not "lock the databse". It can be edited with LODEditor just like any other version of Falcon. The vehicle list of names in the AF database was initially garbled but BaldEagles latest version of LODEditor has fixed that problem also. Database edits are 100% possible now with the new LODEditor 6.1 and the AF database.

The only tool we now need is a TACEDIT tool for AF. We still have to jump through hoops (starting with a SP3 or SP4 CAM file) to build the campaigns for AF. It works, it's just a PITA.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-12 16:04:37

T_Rex wrote:Guys, I highly recommend using Google Earth for tiling. You can get hi-res, photo real screencaps, and then coordinate them into seamless tiles.

Also, I highly recommend this place:
http://combat360.org/forum/

For cutting edge F4 theater stuff.

Yes, Maddog has been doing some outstanding exploratory work for building new Falcon terrains. See this thread over a Frugals for a hint at what he has uncovered:

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/show ... ain+maddog

He also has a guide on the SAAFOPS website that T_REX provided that briefly shows how he coverts Google images to tiles for F4.

Highly recommended reading for terrain builders.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-12 16:07:39

ccc wrote:photorealistic tiles.. bring up another thought..

in original falcon/SP series, IIRC the tile uplimit is 4096. i dunno if AF change this.
FF/cobra exe can handle tiles over 4096.. tho nobody ever create so many new tiles.

this limitation won't stop you using some exe, just control the total tile# under the limit, and use new tiles in areas of interest.

Good point. I have heard conflicting comments on this limit. But irregardless, no theater released to date that I am aware of have ever come close to this limit of tiles. All the theaters I have looked at so far have had less than 2,000 tiles in them. This includes the commercial releases as well (including AF which has around 1600 tiles for Korea and Balkans).

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-12 16:16:12

alright glad to hear AF databsase is open for editing.

Couby · Post by **Couby** » 2007-01-12 16:54:18

Sherlock wrote: Sorry but I have to disagree with you here CCC. LP did not "lock the databse". It can be edited with LODEditor just like any other version of Falcon. The vehicle list of names in the AF database was initially garbled but BaldEagles latest version of LODEditor has fixed that problem also. Database edits are 100% possible now with the new LODEditor 6.1 and the AF database.

Where can we find this last version of LODEditor ?

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-13 05:10:40

Well I can just say outright that PMC is not going to dive into the >4096 tile setups, its just not suitable in my opinion. There are two things, the workload would be huge to produce the tiles and even if some maniac would do it, then there is the download size which would be just insane. I mean if we cover 128 theater from edge to edge with photorealistic 1:1 tiles for each part of the landscape. So I'm still oldschool and stick it to the old tiling theme.

I personally think that the core ODS v0.512 tiles are just great and Vietnam theater would have its goal to reach same level of tile-texture quality.

Sherlock wrote:BaldEagles latest version of LODEditor has fixed that problem also. Database edits are 100% possible now with the new LODEditor 6.1 and the AF database.

Yes but thats the 3d models, not the actual database which we edit with F4Browse, to setup things like aircraft range and loadout. Or am I wrong?

Where can we find this last version of LODEditor ?

I have added it now to the downloads page LODEditor610.rar - 1.5mb. Thanks BaldEagle for coding it and Sherlock to forward it to me.

BaldEagle · Post by **BaldEagle** » 2007-01-13 15:18:06

Sherlock wrote:
ccc wrote:photorealistic tiles.. bring up another thought..

in original falcon/SP series, IIRC the tile uplimit is 4096. i dunno if AF change this.
FF/cobra exe can handle tiles over 4096.. tho nobody ever create so many new tiles.

this limitation won't stop you using some exe, just control the total tile# under the limit, and use new tiles in areas of interest.
Good point. I have heard conflicting comments on this limit. But irregardless, no theater released to date that I am aware of have ever come close to this limit of tiles. All the theaters I have looked at so far have had less than 2,000 tiles in them. This includes the commercial releases as well (including AF which has around 1600 tiles for Korea and Balkans).

Actually, it is the number of tile SETS, which are limited to 256, that cause the problems. I have versions of Terrainview, PathMaker and SPTinstall that can handle sets greater than 256. If anybody runs into the limit problem, contact me to get these special versions.

Malc · Post by **Malc** » 2007-01-13 16:42:02

Snake Man wrote:
Malcolm Hutcheon wrote:Qaz, as he made some gorgeous tiles for the apparently ill-fated OF Europe theater. Gotta be worth an email at least?
Can you contact him? Where does he hang out? He's using just "Qaz" as a name (I've noticed that its more of a rule to use different names for whatever reason in different forums, I never understood why is that)? And you can also PM me the email address of course.

I'll send him a message via Frugals and get back to you...

Couby · Post by **Couby** » 2007-01-13 22:11:10

T_Rex wrote:Guys, I highly recommend using Google Earth for tiling. You can get hi-res, photo real screencaps, and then coordinate them into seamless tiles.

Also, I highly recommend this place:
http://combat360.org/forum/

For cutting edge F4 theater stuff.

I read the google imagery is licensed, while the NASA World Wind data is opensource http://sourceforge.net/projects/nasa-exp/ .
Do someone know about it ? Personnaly I don't

.

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-14 01:28:49

BaldEagle wrote:I have versions of Terrainview, PathMaker and SPTinstall that can handle sets greater than 256. If anybody runs into the limit problem, contact me to get these special versions.

Well why not just call it v1.56 and release it?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-14 01:35:29

after second thought, i think you can build your theaters based on an exe you like. terrain part is more generic.. once done, other modders may convert them for their favorite exe/database.

just my .02c

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-14 02:07:24

ccc wrote:i think you can build your theaters based on an exe you like. terrain part is more generic.. once done, other modders may convert them for their favorite exe/database.

Well theater is much more than just TERRAIN. I was actually thinking of how to coordinate all different falcon versions by some other conversion teams.

But certainly the PMC editing continues as before, we will build as complete theaters as possible without users or conversion teams need to tinker with them. I mean I want to fly these theaters also while developing

Malc · Post by **Malc** » 2007-01-14 08:55:09

Great news! Qaz has kindly offered to make available a couple hundred tiles he done for the OF Europe theater. I'll update you again once I have some links. Hopefully he'll drop in past himself... 8)

I can't remember too much about them right now, but I do remember when I saw them they were quite awesome. He's made a great job of working the tiles in such a way the "squareness" is almost eliminated altogether. They'd make a great basis for further development.

He also done some work for a Nevada theater which are free to use also. Top man. Samples here - viewtopic.php?t=20911

PS - He's pretty handy at creating .cam files also...

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2007-01-14 12:25:08

Snake Man wrote:But certainly the PMC editing continues as before, we will build as complete theaters as possible without users or conversion teams need to tinker with them. I mean I want to fly these theaters also while developing

sure.. PMC style. looking forward to first revivied project!

Com_gp · Post by **Com_gp** » 2007-01-14 19:09:25

ccc wrote:photorealistic tiles.. bring up another thought..

in original falcon/SP series, IIRC the tile uplimit is 4096. i dunno if AF change this.
FF/cobra exe can handle tiles over 4096.. tho nobody ever create so many new tiles.

this limitation won't stop you using some exe, just control the total tile# under the limit, and use new tiles in areas of interest.

thats not right

I created more than 4096 tiles in the past... maybe have to give it a new try...

Regards to everyone,

Com_GP

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-14 19:12:42

Com_gp wrote:
ccc wrote:photorealistic tiles.. bring up another thought..

in original falcon/SP series, IIRC the tile uplimit is 4096. i dunno if AF change this.
FF/cobra exe can handle tiles over 4096.. tho nobody ever create so many new tiles.

this limitation won't stop you using some exe, just control the total tile# under the limit, and use new tiles in areas of interest.
thats not right I created more than 4096 tiles in the past... maybe have to give it a new try...

Regards to everyone,

Com_GP

Com_GP,
See BaldEagles post above. He clarified that comment by stating the limit is not on the number of tiles but is normally limited to 256 SETS of tiles. But he has utilities to get around that limit too...

Com_gp · Post by **Com_gp** » 2007-01-14 19:16:33

Sherlock wrote: See BaldEagles post above. He clarified that comment by stating the limit is not on the number of tiles but is normally limited to 256 SETS of tiles. But he has utilities to get around that limit too...

You are right, I missed that post

Maybe I went to fast thru all of them.

Right now im not involved with Falcon but if I ever start to do something again I know who has that spetial versions of terrainView

Thanks,

Com_GP

kinggeorge · Post by **kinggeorge** » 2007-01-16 20:31:22

woohoo snakeman is back and my login still works - never thought this would happen. Do the basis is F4AF? I'm not into f4 anymore just buzzing the fora once a while - what is the political status?

YouTube · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-01-16 20:41:38

Com_GP... kinggeorge... wow, the oldschool hardcore crew is back 8)

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-01-16 20:42:20

kinggeorge wrote:Do the basis is F4AF? I'm not into f4 anymore just buzzing the fora once a while - what is the political status?

Not sure what you are asking...please clarify...

T_Rex · Post by **T_Rex** » 2007-01-16 21:08:58

kinggeorge wrote: I'm not into f4 anymore ...

Sounds like a health problem... and I have the cure....

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