Detailed OOB for SP2-ODS?

[ccc]

do we have updated OOB info for SP2-ODS?

we probaby need detailed info like:

a/c---Sq number---quantity---wartime airbase

ground unit--unit number--position/city, locations

naval unit--unit number---location/naval base

--> for reparing textures and deployment.

[Red Dog]

I already have a spreadsheet for wartime airbases. At least for the allied side.
here

Have a look in the file, tab "important airbase in Desert Storm"

You'll find name of allied airbase used, wing and squadron allocated.

Cheers
Red Dog

[ccc]

unable to access that zip

[Red Dog]

Indeed, sorry - a type in the url
here it is again
new url

Cheers
Red Dog

[HotDogOne]

I think i might have the Iraqi OOB somewhere, if its helpful and you havent already got this info let me know, ill dig it up.

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by HotDogOne:
I think i might have the Iraqi OOB somewhere, if its helpful and you havent already got this info let me know, ill dig it up.

Don't have Iraqi OOB here, please send it over if you manage to find it.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

Red Dog,

thanx for that amazing airbase list!

but the key point is, im trying to figure out :
How many new skins should be maded for new/upgraded 3d models to fully reflect the visual realism(eyecandy) in ODS theater.

unfortunately your list didnt include A/c type, sq no., and their quantity.

hope i can find a simliar info sources like:
www.scramble.nl

[Red Dog]

ccc,

I should have the airplane list. I'll find out. stay tuned.

The problem is that aircraft moved around a lot during the different phases of the conflict.
A squadron could have rotated there during Desert shield, then back to the states and replaced by another squadron just before desert storm actually began.

The source of the OOB is the Air war over the gulf debrief from Aerospace publishing - I'll open that book again.

And I would also like to have the Iraqui OOB - damn hard to find that one

Later
Rd

[ccc]

ya, a reasonalbe list should be ok. after all we cant simulate sq rotation, or that re-deployment of carrier wings.

[Red Dog]

Heya CCC,
I just checked the file. The A/C and squadron lists are already there.
I guess you missed the correct tab:

Check the tab names Important airbases for desert Storm - the one right after ODS
That's exactly what you are looking for

Cheers
red Dog

[HotDogOne]

I know I have it somewhere - Cant seem to find it though - ill keep looking

[ccc]

thanx Red Dog, i got it.

for ODS-128, we need more than *140 set* of skin for all a/c. or *113* set of skin for majoy a/c at least. not a small number.

[Snake Man]

Here is the Red Dog's airbase list in text mode. Its one big mess I believe due my copy-paste formatting, but bare with me.

The squadrons marked with "*" are now added into the NEW theater files I'm creating for ODS. Here is the list:

red sea carrier groups
USS Saratoga AUG 7th CVW-17 AA F14A+ (VF74 and VF103); F/A-18C (VFA81 and VFA83); A6E and KA6D (VA35); E-2C (VAW125);EA6B (VAQ132); S3B (VS30); SH3H (HS3)
USS America DEC 28th CVW-1 AB F14A (VF33 and VF102); F/A-18C (VFA82 and VFA86); A6E and KA6D (VA85); E-2C (VAW123);EA6B (VAQ137); S3B (VS32); SH3H (HS11)
USS John F Kennedy AUG 15th CVW-3 AC F14A (VF14 and VF32); A-7E (VA46 and VA72); A6E and KA6D (VA75); E-2C (VAW126);EA6B (VAQ130); S3B (VS22); SH3H (HS7)
USS Theodore Roosevelt DEC 28th CVW-8 AJ F14A (VF41 and VF84); F/A-18A (VFA15 and VFA87);A6E (VA36); A6E and KA6D (VA65); E-2C (VAW124);EA6B (VAQ141); S3B (VS24); SH3H (HS9)

persian gulf carrier groups
USS Ranger DEC 8th CVW-2 NE F14A (VF1 and VF2);A6E (VA155); A6E and KA6D (VA145); E-2C (VAW116);EA6B (VAQ131); S3A (VS38); SH3H (HS14)
USS Midway OCT 2nd CVW-5 NF F/A-18A (VFA151 and VFA192 and VFA195);A6E (VA115); A6E and KA6D (VA185); E-2C (VAW115);EA6B (VAQ136); S3B (VS24); SH3H (HS12)

AL AHSA french Mirage 2000C EC5
french Mirage F1CR ER33*
french Jaguar EC11

KING KHALID INTL = Riyadh Military City Airport USAF E-8 J-Stars 4411th J-Stars Sqn*
USAF RSAF: E-3 Awacs 552nd AW&CW936rd, 964th & 965th AW&CS*
USAF RC-135 19th ARW 99th & 912 ARS*
US ANG: EC-130 193rd SOG 193rd SOS*

PRINCE ABDULAZIZ AIRPORT USAF B-52G 2nd BW 62nd &596th BS 42nd BW 69th BS 93rd BW 328th BS 97th BW 340th BS 379th BW 524th BS 416th BW 668thBS*
USN EA-3B VQ-2 Det

KING FAHD INTL USAF A-10 23rd TFW 74th & 76th TFS 354th TFW 353rd & 355th TFS 10th TFW 511th TFS*
USAF OA-10 602nd TACW 23rd TASS*
USAF MC-130E 1st SOW 8th SOS
USAF HC-130N/P 1st SOW 9th SOS
USAF AC-130H 1st SOW 16th SOS
USAF MH-53J 1st SOW 20th SOS
USAF MH-60G 1st SOW 55th SOS*

KING ABDULAZIZ AB USMC AV-8B MAG-13 VMA-231/311/542 MAG-13 VMA-513 det B*
USMC OV-10A/D MAG-13 VMO-1 & 2
USMC AH-1J/W MAG-16 HMLA-367/369*
AL KHARJ USAF F-15C/D 36th TFW 53rd TFS*
USAF F-15E 4th TFW 335th & 336th TFS*
US ANG F-16A/B 174th TFW 138th TFS 169th TFG 157th TFS*

DHARHAN RSAF F-15C/D 13 Squadron*
RSAF Tornado ADV 29 & 34 squadron
RSAF Tornado IDS 7 & 66 squadron*
RSAF Hawk 21 & 37 squadron
RAF Tornado ADV 43rd & 29th Sqn
RAF Tornado IDS 31st Sqn*
USAF F-15C/D 1st TFW 27th & 71st TFS*
Free Kuwaiti Mirage F1CK 18 & 61 squadron*
Free Kuwaiti A-4KU 9 & 25 squadron*

KING KHALID MILITARY CITY US Amy AH-64A*
US Army AH-1S*
US Army OH-58A/D*
US Army EH-60C
British Army Gazelle AH1*
British Army Lynx AH7
French Army Gazelle SA 341/2*

KHAMIS MUSHAIT AB USAF F-117A 37TFW 415th & 416th TFS
RSAF F-15C 6 squadron
RSAF F-5 15 squadron

TABUK USAF F-15C/D 33rd TFW 58th TFS*
RAF Tornado Gr1 16th Sqn & 617 (element) sqn*
RSAF F-5 17 squadron*
USN HH-60H HCS-4 & HCS-5*

TAIF USAF F-111F 48th TFW 492nd, 493rd & 494th TFS
USAF EF-111A 366th TFW 390th ECS
USAF TR-1A/U-2R 9th SRW 99th SRS det3 17th RW 95th RS
RSAF F-5E 3 & 10 Squadron
RSAF F-15C/D 5 Squadron

Oman
SEEB not supported RAF Nimrod MR2 Nimrod MR Det
RAF Niimrod R1 Nimrod R Det

Qatar
Doha USAF F-16C/D 401st TFW 614th TFS*
CDF CF-18 409, 439 & 441 squadron*
French Mirage F-1C EC12*
Qatari Mirage F1EDA 7 squadron*

United Arab Emirates
AL DHAFRA Italian Tornado IDS 6°, 36° & 50° Stormo
Emirates Mirage 2000 ??
USAF F-16C/D 363rd TFW 17th & 33rd TFS 50th TFW 10th TFS
Bahrain

SHEIKH ISA AB not supported USAF F-4G 35th TFW 561st TFS 52nd TFW 81st TFS
US ANG RF-4C 117th TRW 106th TRS 152nd TRG 192nd TRS
USMC F/A-18 MAG-11 VMFA(AW)-121 MAG-11 VMFA-212/232/235/314/333/451
USMC A-6E MAG-11 VMA(AW)-224 MAG-11 VMA(AW)-533
USMC EA-6B MAG-11 VMAQ-2
Bahraini F-16C/D ??
Bahraini F-5E ??

BAHRAIN INTL AIRPORT RAF Tornado Gr1 15th, 9, 17, 27, 31 & 617th sqn
RAF Bucanner S2 208, 12 & 237th OCU Sqn
RAF Jaguar Gr1 41, 6& 54th Sqn
USN EP-3 VQ-1 VQ-2

---

Some comments,
in Riyadh Military City there is "USAF RC-135 19th ARW 99th & 912 ARS*" which I placed as TANKER. Umm I bet thats not a tanker but some Rivet Joint recon plane?

TAIF... is that Turaif perhaps?

Ok thats for starting some discussion on the squadrons, so far I have not added the carrier groups (as not shown *) but the campaign seems to run decent enought even in this very early stage. Meaning we get flights scheduled even there are no ground forces to attack on.

Again sorry about the messy paste format.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

Glad to see list items becoming a reality.

but how you add a/c Sq like MirageF1 and A4? we've no such models yah?
[edit] i've sent a low poly miragF1 to Quake.

i'd recommend add sqadrons like:

1. add a/c available in current/latest DB first, like F14/15/16/18/A10/F111..etc.
[ok, i note you have added them already.. now F111/EF111/F4G.]
2. add sq based at major combat airbases, some guardian force like based at Saudi emirates?, guess never invovled in hot operation.

BTW how many a/c in each sq you set?
should we start skin-making/collecting?

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
but how you add a/c Sq like MirageF1 and A4? we've no such models yah?

I added everything on that great Red Dog's Airbase List of what I could find on SP3 database.

Do they work or not, most likely not. But at least they are added there.

quote:i'd recommend add sqadrons like:

I recommend Smith & Wesson.

(heh just kidding. ford fairlane quote)

quote:how many a/c in each sq you set?

I added as many Squadrons was listed in the doc. For example 353 TFW - 16th Squadron, I added 1 squadron.

But its really a nuts list, for example Prince Abdulaziz (King Abdul Aziz Mil Academy?) has 7 (SEVEN!) B-52G squadrons

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Snake Man]

The only Tornado aircraft in the SP3 database is Tornado IDS, now I don't know much about this plane but is there ADV (air to ground) and IDS (air to air) versions?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

quote:I added everything on that great Red Dog's Airbase List of what I could find on SP3 database.
Do they work or not, most likely not. But at least they are added there.

So the campaign run as usual?

quote:I added as many Squadrons was listed in the doc. For example 353 TFW - 16th Squadron, I added 1 squadron.

hmmm.. i ask how many a/c in one squadron, 16? 18? 24?

quote:I guess so. But hey don't ask me how to add the skins

no. we use old trick, skin pack swapping, linked to theater switching operation?

quote:but is there ADV (air to ground) and IDS (air to air) versions?

Yes. Both 3d models are in your latest installer.

[Red Dog]

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
The only Tornado aircraft in the SP3 database is Tornado IDS, now I don't know much about this plane but is there ADV (air to ground) and IDS (air to air) versions?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

Snake man: ADV is Air to Air only. 4 Aim9L/4Skyflash/2tanks

IDS is the original AG version.
In the gulf, GR1 and GR1a were used. We can say they are the same (GR1a being reconnaissance)
The Gr1 used JP233, Alarms antiradiation missiles, GP bombs and laser guided bombs. in the beginning they also carried two AIM9L and most of the times, big tanks borrowed from the ADV versions or smaller 1500l tanks

The luftwaffe also use the ECR version which is a kind of Wild Weasel. (not for ODS though)

During the Gulf, the italian also used the Tornado IDS, mainly with Mk83 GP bombs

Nowadays the brits are upgrading the tornado to GR4 variants which is an advanced IDS version.

Yeah, I know - I like that plane way too much :p

Cheers
Red Dog

[Snake Man]

quote:So the campaign run as usual?

Simply: I don't know.

Meaning: I only made one test run for it and it ran good. after that I had to redo the terrain + campaign because I AM A @#$%^&* DORK and made a mistake in the dem2terrain process and Iraq had suddenly double objectives. DOH.

quote:hmmm.. i ask how many a/c in one squadron, 16? 18? 24?

Dunno never counted the aircraft numbers in one squadron at the database.

quote:Yes. Both 3d models are in your latest installer.

Both? really? I did not install the latest yet so I have no idea. Great if they both are there.

quote:ADV is Air to Air only. 4 Aim9L/4Skyflash/2tanks
IDS is the original AG version.

Ok that clears it up. Wonder where I did get the IDS == AIR TO AIR idea on my head.

quote:Yeah, I know - I like that plane way too much

I used to be bad-ass Tornado (c) Digital Integration player inside and out, even spent one new year celebrations drinking coca cola and playing Tornado Desert Storm (yeah talking about ultimate geek)

Btw Red Dog: Can you clear up that TAIF airbase name, is it really a Turaif?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Snake Man]

Tonight I was working on the new Airbase list for ODS by Red Dog. Lot of airbases got deleted, lot of airbases was downgraded to airstrips (East West at this point) and some airbases got renamed and Ali Al Salem AB was added.

The new fixed airbase CSV has been sent to Red Dog for evaluation, lets keep the fingers crossed it passes the quality test

Thanks goes to Red Dog for great work with the airbase data.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Red Dog]

quote: Btw Red Dog: Can you clear up that TAIF airbase name, is it really a Turaif?

Taif and Turaif a two different airbases.

Taif is on the SouthWest part of Saudi Arabia and indeed supported F111F, Ef111A TR-1, U-2 RSAF F-5 and RSAF F-15 during the Golf war.
Icao code is OETF

Turaif is on the tri border zone between Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia in the NorthWest. Much too close to the borders to support allied air operation in the conflict IMHO. Icao code is OETR.

As for now, TAIF airbase is the most interesting for us. But I don't know if the map of ODS support the region. It would greatly help me to have a difinitive map of the full area. So that i can make sure.

If the base is on the ODS map, then I'll add it to the airbase list and to the Ids csv file.

quote: The new fixed airbase CSV has been sent to Red Dog for evaluation, lets keep the fingers crossed it passes the quality test

You can quit crossing the finger, I just went through the file and all corrections are correct. Good job
Forward we go

RD

[Snake Man]

I'm looking for the IRAQi aircraft squadron information, what aircrafts on which bases.

Any help would be much appreciated.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[87th_striker]

New SA-3 on wheels:
http://www.janes.com/defence/land_force ... _1_n.shtml

[Golabp]

Snakeman alot info here on airbases and aircraft during the gulf war.
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/desert.htm
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/faci ... fields.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/iraq_orbat.htm

[ccc]

Snake Man, i think its really hard to find solid info, but check links here:

1. overview:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/af/

2. item list, see table 11-13. so you can deploy them as you wish.. best fighters are always stationed near capital. as for their Sq #/name, sorry no info.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/iraq/iq_appen.html#table13

[ccc]

Digest from previous two links:

1.The air force was headquartered in Baghdad, and major bases were located at Basra, H-3 (site of a pump station on the oil pipeline in western Iraq), Kirkuk, Mosul, Rashid, and Ash Shuaybah.

2.Iraq's more than 500 (another source said 700+) combat aircraft were formed into

bomber squadrons x2 -----
Bombers Tu-16 8
Tu-22 7, one type for one sq.

fighter-ground attack squadrons x11 --
MiG-29 28 1 sq
MiG-23BM 40 2 sq
Mirage F-1C 40 2sq
Mirage F-1EQ5 (Exocet- equipped) 20 1 sq
Mirage F-1EQ-200 23 1 sq
F-7 (Chinese version of MiG-21 assembled
in Egypt) 70 2-3 sq
Su-7; Su-20 (Su-25 reported) n.a. 1-2 sq

interceptor squadrons x5---------
MiG-25 25 1 sq
MiG-21 200 2 sq?
MiG-19 40 1 sq
Mirage F-1EQ 30 1 sq

Reconnaissance MiG-25 5 -- 1 sq

counterinsurgency squadron x1
(consist of 10 to 30 aircraft each.)

Support aircraft included two transport squadrons. --------
Transport aircraft An-2 Colt 10
An-12 Cub 10
An-24 Coke (retiring) 6
An-26 Curl 2
Il-76 Candid 19
Il-14 Crate 19
DH Heron 1

Training squadron --?
MiG-15, MiG-21, MiG-23U, Su- 7U n.a.
Mirage F-1BQ 16
L-29 Delfin 50
L-39 Albatros 40
PC-7 Turbo Trainer 50
EMB-312 Tucano 21


weapon used:
=======================
Air-to-air missiles
R-530 n.a.
R-550 Magic n.a.
AA-2, AA-6, AA-7, AA-8 n.a.

Air-to-surface missiles
AS-30 Laser 200
Armat n.a.
Exocet AM-39 542
AS-4 Kitchen n.a.
AS-5 Kelt n.a.


Hope this help.
For land and naval forces, check table 11-12.

[Snake Man]

Yeah indeed seems to be very difficult to find information (accurate info) of Iraqi squadrons. But you guys posted some good links, I'll use that data what we got here and add them into Historical ODS campaign.

I wonder how those incredients turn out in the soup kitchen of Falcon 4 Campaign engine

Thanks again guys, appreciated the help.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Snake Man]

This is the historical ODS campaign Iraqi squadron location list. The * marked aircrafts are inactive, but stationed. Well actually they are reinforcements in 255 hours.

Rasheed: TU-16, Mirage F1*.
Kirkuk: TU-22.
Saddam INTL: Mig-29A, Mig-21MF/PFM.
H-3: Mig-23ML, Mig-21MF/PFM.
Basrah INTL: Mig-23ML, Mig-25.
Tallil: Mirage F1*. Mig-21MF/PFM, Mig-19SF.
H-2: Mirage F1*, SU-25.
Qalat Salih: Mirage F1*.
Mosul: Mirage F1*, An-2, An-12, IL-76M.

What do you think?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:

Rasheed: TU-16, Mirage F1*.
Kirkuk: TU-22.
Saddam INTL: Mig-29A, Mig-21MF/PFM.
H-3: Mig-23ML, Mig-21MF/PFM.
Basrah INTL: Mig-23ML, Mig-25.
Tallil: Mirage F1*. Mig-21MF/PFM, Mig-19SF.
H-2: Mirage F1*, SU-25.
Qalat Salih: Mirage F1*.
Mosul: Mirage F1*, An-2, An-12, IL-76M.

I feel you could
1. add more mig21 sq to bobmer base to help air defense.
2. a dettachment of mig25 to Saddam intl.
3. add some an24, maybe a dettachment to Saddam intl.
4. just forget i missed some a/c Iraqi have:
(Sq quantity: my guess, a/c available in SP3)
Su-24, 1 Sq
Su-7, 1-2 sq
Su-17/22, 1-2 sq
A-50, only 1-2 ships i think.
IL78? no idea.
Mig-17, 1-2 sq. reserved forces.

Choppers:Mi8/17/24. for army base.

PS: if mirage F1 not availabe at this moment, you can use F-5E.

[Snake Man]

Here is the updated list, thanks for helping me out to put this together.

Rasheed: TU-16, Mirage F1*.
Kirkuk: TU-22, Mig-21MF/PFM.
Saddam INTL: Mig-29A, Mig-21MF/PFM, Mig-25, An-24.
H-3: Mig-23ML, Mig-21MF/PFM.
Basrah INTL: Mig-23ML, Mig-25.
Tallil: Mirage F1*. Mig-21MF/PFM, Mig-19SF.
H-2: Mirage F1*, SU-25.
Qalat Salih: Mirage F1*, SU-24M.
Mosul: Mirage F1*, An-2, An-12, IL-76M, A-50 (two ship).
Safwan: SU-17.
As Salman army base: Mi-8, Mi-24, Gazelle*.
Al Basrah army base: Mi-8, Mi-24, Gazelle*.
Ar Rutbah army base; Mi-8, Mi-24, Gazelle*.

I could not find SU-7 or Mi-17 from SP3 database.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Red Dog]

From the sources I have here, the Iraqi air force was mainly deployed around Baghdad, the H2 H3 complex to protect the oil pipeline to Jordan and the large area around Basra in the Southeast.
The west of the Euphrate is desert. some airbases are there to face Saudi Arabia but they were left empty. The East of the Tigris is the Iran border and a montainous terrain, not really a lot of place for an airbase.

That list of yours looks good.

Cheers
RD

[ccc]

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
I could not find SU-7 or Mi-17 from SP3 database.

The list looks good.

In current DB, mi8=mi17. Su-7=su-7BK.

you should be able to find su7bk in TacRef, fighter section. not sure if it's available in campaign list.

[Snake Man]

Okay update

Safwan: SU-17, 2 x SU-7BMK.

Thanks again CCC.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

great..now better start another thread: OOB for ODS-SP3

[Snake Man]

Hehe I think people will get the point.

Since Red Dog fixed our Coalition squadrons, you guys helped me to get rough estimate for Iraqi squadrons, how about moving into ground units...

Any rough types etc of iraqi stuff that was on the Kuwait Saudi border at the eve of ground war?

And what about attacking Coalition forces?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

well, im searching the whole web for hours..no result yet.

[Red Dog]

In the book I have, there 's a chapter about the ground war. I'll look at it tonight.

Cheers
RD