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derstef wrote:Russia flew combat missions with SU-24, SU-25, SU-27, TU-22M3, Mi8/17 & Mi-24s... (one TU-22M3 was downed by a georgian SA-11, Russia lost ~10 ACs at all)
groundactions: 58th Army, 76th Air Assault Division and 45th Intelligence Regiment. ~150 T-62 & T-72 main battle tanks.

info from the british magazine "Airforces monthly"..

cheers
Stef

What? a Tu22M3 is down?? it's a big lost!

last time in Chechya conflict russia lost TWO su24 and they refused to send su24 for mission!

Snake Man wrote:Guys I ran into some problems... problem being the current map sucks

I didnt even notice it before (I'm blind), but when I started to edit the map it came apparent that its not very nice exact position what I had chosen. Lets take a look at the old images: Georgia - Clean, Georgia - Features and Georgia - Tacedit.

So when I started to edit the campaign files, I started to add the priority objectives (big cities to capture), it was clear to me that we are hunkered down to the SE corner of the map and there is wast spaces of empty real estate in the russia where nothing would happen.

Then I went and created new georgia, this time lat 42 and lon 44 coordinates. Now its on the center point of the theater, which feels natural and "focused" in my mind. Take a look:

Clean map view
img]http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/tmp/georg ... _lon44.jpg[/img]

Features
img]http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/tmp/georg ... atures.jpg[/img]

Code: Select all

Theater name: my_mideastbig
Theater size: Regular
Size (L2 segments): 64 x 64
Size (L2 tiles): 1024 x 1024
Size (Nautical Miles): 552.377 x 552.377
Resolution: 0.134858 Nautical Miles
Centered on: Lat 42 Long 44
NW: Lat 46.6031 Long 37.3001
NE: Lat 46.6031 Long 50.6999
SW: Lat 37.3969 Long 38.2059
SE: Lat 37.3969 Long 49.7941
Highest point: 18269ft
Lowest point: 0ft

So now I'm using this lat 42 lon 44 created terrain and will build the theater from there, unless someone has strong objections for this... but I really cant see how anyone would bitch about this change.

What are your plans to unsubmerge the northeast part of the theater ?

87th_striker please don't quote images.

I tried to lift it with CATE as I've done several times before, but for some reason it didn't work. I did not want to get stuck with this one problem and proceeded with the theater development.

Which can be now downloaded PMC_Georgia_Theater_v0.1.rar - 5.5mb.

Its very early work in progress, only one working campaign and not much else. Its mainly for ccc to check things out in there. Please don't post into other forums or news sites anything about this installer. Oh it also lacks any UI for AF/OF so its kind of RV only for now. I'll add more stuff to it later.

Nice progress, Snake Man!

keep on doing!


cheers
Stef

Snake Man wrote:87th_striker please don't quote images.

I tried to lift it with CATE as I've done several times before, but for some reason it didn't work. I did not want to get stuck with this one problem and proceeded with the theater development.

Which can be now downloaded PMC_Georgia_Theater_v0.1.rar - 5.5mb.

Its very early work in progress, only one working campaign and not much else. Its mainly for ccc to check things out in there. Please don't post into other forums or news sites anything about this installer. Oh it also lacks any UI for AF/OF so its kind of RV only for now. I'll add more stuff to it later.

SM,

The CATE script from ODS which raises the low areas to +3 feet elevation worked very well with Iran in that same area of the Caspian sea. You just need a bmp file to reference that is painted with black in those areas you want to raise (bitmap 0,0,0 I believe but reference the CATE script to be sure).

The terrain for Russia has been fixed so its elevated above sea level. The theater is about 85% linked now, only thing remaining is the north west corner of Russia where there are just way too many airfields which need to be deleted for which we need RedDog's help again.

So the linking is halted for the NW corner, where no ground fighting would even happen. I maybe putting out v0.2 out as the linking is "complete" and terrain has been properly elevated.

Here is the v0.2 of this theater. I linked the campaign objectives up until the north west (Russia), also I elevated the "underwater" areas to a normal land 3ft elevation.

Remember that this is still early work and not meant to be spread around, please don't post to other forums and news sites about this. Download PMC_Georgia_Theater_v0.2.rar - 5.6mb.

And some changelog: If you're going to install this on top of old Georgia, in theory... you should be just able to run the installer on top of the old one... however I strongly recommend you delete Theaters\Georgia\ directory and then run this installer.

All feedback is welcome.

great job.

v0.2 RV install > no problem.

test fly missions in campaign > ok, exciting dogfighting over south ossetia ridges!

CTD bug noted when exiting falcon sim.

It happened to me twice now that when I started the campaign on US side, most of the battalions just disappear all of the sudden in campaign start. Yes I got few surrenders, but it was roughly ALL of them that disappeared, only few were left remain.

ccc, have you seen this?

no, the blue side battalions did not disappear suddenly.. however some do suffered from Red air strike.. few units are neutralized.

i checked it twice in 64x time compresssion.

BTW PAK map shows correct background map, but Korea PAKs.

I have install Georgia for falcon AF but al Black sea is terrain just a little sea between the coast and the open sea who is all terrain.
Very difficult for aircraftcarrier to operate in this Black sea.
Roberto Sincovich
Italy

alright..two rough theater tga.. zip on your way.





BTW found a nice map - take a look, it shows the two main combat routes and ground unit involved.

http://web.stratfor.com/images/fsu/map/ ... Map800.jpg

based on the map, two routes..i checked the road network with TE..
http://web.stratfor.com/images/fsu/map/ ... Map800.jpg

1. coastal route, from russia Sochi > Senaki > porti.
armour unit can't move along the coast route! it turns inland to moutainous area, then down to Senaki area.. it seems the coastal route are broken at several points.

2. South ossetia route, from Tskhinvali > Gori > Mtskheta > Tbilisi > Vaziani > Marneuli.

Good road network! an armour unit can move from Tskhinvali to Tibilisi/Vaziani airbasese area, it takes 4 hours. the route branch can reach Marneuli( and AFB), all open for ground unit moving.

imo the cities can be used for TRI file creation.. to guide the movement of ground units.. for example, the victory condition can be set with capture of Porti, Vaziani, and Marneuli.

sincov wrote:I have install Georgia for falcon AF but al Black sea is terrain just a little sea between the coast and the open sea who is all terrain.

Do you have screenshot to illustrate whats going on, as I really don't understand what is the problem?

alright..two rough theater tga.. zip on your way.

Thanks CCC, very much appreciated. Any and all contributions help greatly, it feel much more better to develop this theater with someone in my corner. Thanks man.

coastal route, from russia Sochi > Senaki > porti.
armour unit can't move along the coast route! it turns inland to moutainous area, then down to Senaki area.. it seems the coastal route are broken at several points.

Seems that the DCW data generally gets broken when it reached Dem2terrain -> CATE and theater.L2 file. We must go through all coastlines manually in terrainview, I'm afraid there is no other choice.

imo the cities can be used for TRI file creation.. to guide the movement of ground units.. for example, the victory condition can be set with capture of Porti, Vaziani, and Marneuli.

There is no "Porti" or "Vaziani", did you recall these out from your memory or did you write them down?

The closest thing I can find is:
Porti == PORT IL'ICH or POTI
Vaziani == VANI or vardisubani

Could you please recheck those objectives so I can hook them up with the trigger file?

I have now setup the trigger already for CIS controlling MARNEULI objective.

Thanks CCC, very much appreciated. Any and all contributions help greatly, it feel much more better to develop this theater with someone in my corner. Thanks man.

you r welcome.. since i asked for georgia and kurile, i do have responsibility to do something..

Seems that the DCW data generally gets broken when it reached Dem2terrain -> CATE and theater.L2 file. We must go through all coastlines manually in terrainview, I'm afraid there is no other choice.

yes i think the coastal route needs manual tweak - thanks God the route is quite short. just from Sochi to Poti - just few broken points.

There is no "Porti" or "Vaziani", did you recall these out from your memory or did you write them down?

sorry my typo. first please check the map link for reference..

it's Poti, not Porti, in TE, i can find poti, poti village..

and Vaziani, it's named Tibilisi-Vaziani... as an AFB. there're three nearby AFBs named Tibilisi- XXXX.

Back-up of my falcon 4 reg keys and Folder
Tonite i will install for OF
I always tought that that region is 100% interesting both for terrain and possible country involved
Thanks SM
IF able to do it i will try to report all the bugs founded

a nice, and complete reference..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

and the most comprehensive map..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2008_ ... war_en.svg

@SM

i am shifting my tweaking test to Georgia..but i encountered some problems..

1. short of Georgia tdf files for Terrainview.
2. the map in 2d flight planing UI is too simple.. no nation/state border line, and no road lines.. hard to tell which part i am tweaking.
3. missing few key objectives for historical 2008 conflict.. just few.

I'll give you the TDF files so you can create the image in terrainview yourself.

Well can you do those objectives in Tacedit, then export them into .csv file, rar it up and email to me?

Snake Man wrote:I'll give you the TDF files so you can create the image in terrainview yourself.

Well can you do those objectives in Tacedit, then export them into .csv file, rar it up and email to me?

sure.. but how to create that map for 2d war/flight planning window?

Load the terrain in terrainview, load the features (it also takes order of load into factor as displaying the stuff, for example load city TDF first, then roads, so roads are overlay through cities) and choose save bitmap.

Then well to get the campmap.rsc done, check out the UI page from our wiki.

NICE, FAST AND BIG!

For Georgia: is there the Roki Tunnel ? Or at last the old pass? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roki_Tunnel
A tunnel must be a new future or?

The Roki- Tunnel / -Pass is not in the "Black Shark" Map (LOL)

Then well to get the campmap.rsc done, check out the UI page from our wiki.

err.. i knew the wiki. i have not used any perl tool since 2000. if possible..<cough> could i have the campmap.rsc ready for use?

For Georgia: is there the Roki Tunnel ? Or at last the old pass? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roki_Tunnel
A tunnel must be a new future or?

the reason i want to test Georgia mod is, the road network system is quite simple. it seems i can load my road-highlighted texture.zip and check all major battle routes in a short while - acutally only TWO routes to check.

The Roki tunnel is a cool feature for campaign..but i don't plan to set it as a real choking point.. or it may hurt the fluidity of ground war..there's no other substitute to send troops into south ossetia in short time.

The idea for simple tweaking is, two route - one from CIS/north ossetia move down to Tskhinavali-Goti then close to Tibilisi, the other from north Abkhazia down to Poti and Senaki. the test is limited for historical event in 2008.. ficitonal camapigns with NATO or turkey involvement will need more work on road system.

btw, the 2008 conflict is quite easy for red side player, and the real life OOB info indicates frogfoot is the choice of simming.

while checking Georgia with TerrainView, i noted terrain sections over SEA area- black sea, are placed with solid land tiles.
All terrain sections over SEA have the same tiling pattern, seems the result of duplicated auto-tiling.

is it a way to fix terrain under sea level?

PMC Editing Wiki: Falcon 4 terrain, read about the shared ocean.

bug- PAK map in priority setting menu not working. drop-down menu shows several PAK city names, but no flashing red on the map.

some rough tweaking and test result.. failed.

- use my Kurile texture.bin ( remove bridge and river definitoin on tiles).
- use my tweaked, road-hightlighted texture.zip to help checking road system in Terrainview.
- check/fix/create two historical road sytems, one along black sea coast, down to Poti. one in the middle of Georgia, via Gorti to Tifilis. all use TerrainView.. found many disconnected roads along the two routes.
- use Pheionix711 THR creator, no river. create Georgia.thr.
- use georgia.thr as relief map, open save0.cam with TacEdit. delete some bridges, re-link obj, check move cost. for obvious reason, the move cost between Georgia and CIS is very high( middel route). i can see the NEW roads created by me, show up in this relief map generated by new THR.
- also adjust obj priority.. tune up values for poti and Tifis. Set the north end objs of the two routes belong to CIS.
- create a simple TRI files.. red to capture all major obj along the two routes, Poti and Tifilis are end points. Blue to re-capture the northmost end objs of the routes, for vicotry.
- move some TCL-placed ground units to north ends of the two combat routes. at first, i randomly place them.. and found they all tasked as [ reserve .. blank ]. then i back to TacEdit, with more patience, place them closer or one the brown road line.. well this time they show [ defend .. blank ] or [ secure .. blank]. no movement at all.
- TCL-placed red ground units are mostly located at right half of theater map, and inland russia..as the terrain is tough and move cost beween CIS-Georgia is pretty high, most of the units shows no movement at all.

Thanx to Pheonix711, he helps converting bmp files into usable theater map.

the new theater 2d maps are rough, NOT hi-qaulity one for end users...just add blurred national border lines to help developing campaigns.

screenshtos..
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192 ... gianew.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192 ... amview.jpg

download link..

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wtm3nz2zyon/theater map -Georgia and Vietnam test.rar

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wtm3nz2zy ... 20test.rar

PS- the new map files should go to..
your falcon Dir/Theater/Georgia/Art/resource
your falcon Dir/Theater/Vietnam/Art/resource

one more tweak to push this theater further.. fix the shared ocean bug in Black and Caspian sea area.
i re-tiled and leveled the elevation in [1,63] section, by hand..darn..

http://www.mediafire.com/file/30dzhmxtt ... ter-L2.zip

put this theater.L2 in terrain folder to replace old one.

then run the two exe in command mode..

C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Utilities\htti.exe -auto C:\Microprose\Falcon4\theaters\georgia\terrdata

C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Utilities\LxNormalFix.exe @georgia @C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Theaters\georgia\terrdata

Basically the sea tile is right on the sea area, and all elevation set to zero. look better.

BUT - the far tiles remain the same old land tiles!! you'll see land tiles near horizon..

Guys, the CIS is not Russia, it is a handful of countries. You are referring to Russia alone in this conflict, aren't you? Or you might be including Azerbaijan or Armenia when you refer to CIS (as they are also both in this theater)? Maybe then CIS is the right term to use.

Actually, this is interesting. CIS countries are all the former Soviet countries -- including Georgia -- but with the exception of the three Baltic states. Georgia left the CIS in 2008.

Now they do have a CSTO Collective Security Treaty Organization, to which Armenia belongs and Azerbaijan does not. So I guess the campaign builder would have to decide how to treat those two countries.

Ripcord

Alright, change CIS to Russia.

another eye-candy tweak report..

i checked Google Earth, captured screenshots of two test sites, Poti and Gori. then try to hand-tile/tweak the tile arrangement at the twe objectives with default korea tiles.

i measured the city area in GE and adjusted the tile coverage in falcon terrain, also the tweak try to follow the contour of city. Tiles around the city area are changed, based on GE SAT image.

With the limitation of existing tiles, it's hard to do it perfectly.. for example i found some korea city/town tiles are excellent for Gori - BUT they miss few city-road or city-river tile variants. Also the city-farm-hill transition is quite hard to handle.. towns/villages are just mixed up with hills. Poti is easier, tho the result looks so so.

conclusion.. hand-tiling key objective areas for better visual..won't deserve the time and energy invested.
If the areas are so important..using dedicated SAT image tiles should be easier.

Anyplace I can download this theater for development work?

For development work, what do you mean by that?

The release post of Georgia theater is here.

I hate that Georgia, Libya and I believe Kuriles theaters were released so that there is no official release topic, but the theater link is hidden somewhere in ccc's topics heh. I'll try to correct that on the next releases

Snake Man wrote:For development work, what do you mean by that?

I meant to work on it SM in order to further its development here at PMC.

ccc wrote:one more tweak to push this theater further.. fix the shared ocean bug in Black and Caspian sea area.
i re-tiled and leveled the elevation in [1,63] section, by hand..darn..

http://www.mediafire.com/file/30dzhmxtt ... ter-L2.zip

put this theater.L2 in terrain folder to replace old one.

then run the two exe in command mode..

C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Utilities\htti.exe -auto C:\Microprose\Falcon4\theaters\georgia\terrdata

C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Utilities\LxNormalFix.exe @georgia @C:\Microprose\Falcon4\Theaters\georgia\terrdata

Basically the sea tile is right on the sea area, and all elevation set to zero. look better.

BUT - the far tiles remain the same old land tiles!! you'll see land tiles near horizon..

Please note for any AF developers that the command for LxNormalFix above is different as follows:

C:\Program Files\Lead Pursuit\Battlefield Operations\Theaters\Georgia\terrdata\LxNormalFix.exe $LP @georgia @c:\Program Files\Lead Pursuit\Battlefield Operations\Theaters\Georgia\terrdata

Note: The above path assumes AF was installed in the default directory path.

Also, I had to put the HTTI.exe terrain builder in the \terrain folder (where the L2/O2 were located) to get it to "see" the L2 file and run to completion.

glad to hear the ball is rolling again

so, does my L2 file fix the sea bug in AF version?

ccc wrote:glad to hear the ball is rolling again

so, does my L2 file fix the sea bug in AF version?

ccc,
is that the problem in the Black Sea? If so, then it appears to be fine in AF. I still need to do more checking though. Haven't flown over the Caspian Sea yet and only one excursion out to the Black Sea real quick.

ya, L2 fix for black sea and Caspian sea.

BTW - which field you are interested in developing Georgia?

my last tweak is working on historical one, check areas of interest, check routes and obj-linking, then stuck in campaign...my campaign tweaks all corrupted.

ccc wrote: BTW - which field you are interested in developing Georgia?

Not sure what you mean by "which field"? Please explain then I can answer you.

sorry, i mean what aspect of theater dev.. like improving terrain, tile, obj-linking, or campaign editing.

ccc wrote:sorry, i mean what aspect of theater dev.. like improving terrain, tile, obj-linking, or campaign editing.

Ah! Ok.

1. User Interface (this always bugs me the most for some reason! ); this includes doing the PAK map if the PAKs are stable and will not change.
2. Checking links\linking
then if I am still motivated
3. Campaign editing/play testing for balance

@ccc,
Can you send me the GEORGIA campaign tgas you did above so I can use them please? I'll send you a PM with my email addy.