Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Iran theater

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Sherlock
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Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-05 19:55:59

I think we need to come up with a plan for editing this theater since there are at least three people working on this theater right now that I know of: Snakeman, demer and myself.

I'll start by identifying the areas I know of that need work to push this theater further along. I'll caveat my comments by stating up front that I only have AF loaded and that is the only version I look at this theater running in:

1. Linking needs work to allow ground forces to achieve objective goals. Removing rivers and/or bridges may be one way to help this.
2. Trigger file work including developing the TRI files to work from both the blue and red sides.
3. Ground and air forces balance (quantities and type of units). More variety also needs to be address, e.g, no paratroops or air assault battalions are currently implemented.
4. PAK maps fixed in each .cam file.

Since we have differences now between the FF, OF and AF databases there is probably going to need to be someone to check each .CAM file for their respective version. Is this a true observation?

I'd like to identify who will be responsible for what work and try to work out a plan for how the work will flow from person to person without causing redo of work (the .cam file changes are my highest concern). I know we have limited ability to export/import with TacEdit so I believe my concerns are well founded.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms?
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by ccc » 2010-08-06 02:23:07

my 0.002c here,
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=22063

better check the road network- main combat routes first, and the move cost value.

if necesary, use THR creator to remove rivers > then remove bridge obj to reduce total obj count.
imho you may leave 3d world river-bridge tile/texture.bin alone..as ground war mostly done in 2d map view, the activities in 3d world are cosmetics.

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by 87th_striker » 2010-08-06 18:06:56

Suggest a check of all key infrastructure, if you are serious. The data you are building this on is just very old.

There would probably be more roads, and some AB's are just small strips and small strips have become bigger bases. There are also a lot of new industries and huge military complexes for storage of weapons and ammunitions. Fixing this can be done, and I'm willing to give a helping hand, even if time often are a problem.

Could we just take data from google earth and correct it in some way with a "pen and paper" digitally ?

And while we are at it... making campaigns are of course interesting, but there is a lot of things to fix before doing that ?

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-06 19:22:59

@Sherlock'
"Since we have differences now between the FF, OF and AF databases there is probably going to need to be someone to check each .CAM file for their respective version. Is this a true observation?"
Yes,I will volunteer to handle the FF DB edit's.I've already started on them.(Only way to get the .cam running without a CTD\Freeze) :wink:

@ccc,
I think Sherlock is already working on that.It is the Path\Area\Tile type in the tile set that determine's the Movement COST of GU's in Falcon.The GU will alway's look for the lowest movement Cost over the terrain and use that route. That is why we see so many Wacky Paths when we LeftClick on a unit in the 2D map.
"Why the Heck are you heading 10km's south to move 2km's North????"
As far as Sherlock's work on the Path's with the tex.bin\.thr file's.They should easily incorporate into the other version's.

@87th_striker,
"Suggest a check of all key infrastructure, if you are serious."
I agree.
Most of the 7000+ Static Object's are unnecessary for Gameplay and only confuse the available tool's that are designed for 4900 or less. Don't think you need every Village\Bridge\Airbase and run-down shack on the map to build a working campaign.

my 2cts.
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-06 19:33:02

87th_striker wrote:Suggest a check of all key infrastructure, if you are serious. The data you are building this on is just very old.

There would probably be more roads, and some AB's are just small strips and small strips have become bigger bases. There are also a lot of new industries and huge military complexes for storage of weapons and ammunitions. Fixing this can be done, and I'm willing to give a helping hand, even if time often are a problem.

Could we just take data from google earth and correct it in some way with a "pen and paper" digitally ?

And while we are at it... making campaigns are of course interesting, but there is a lot of things to fix before doing that ?
Appreciate your input but this is beyond the scope of what I am willing to attempt. All the previous DCW data was imported digitally via DEM2Terrain and unless you have updated DCW data that DEM2Terrain can use then I say we are dead in the water. The only remaining way is manually and that is just too big a task IMO.
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by 87th_striker » 2010-08-06 19:37:44

hmmm. amybe we could map it in Google earth and export / import data ?

Import the roads from Google earth ?

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-06 20:04:00

87th_striker wrote:hmmm. amybe we could map it in Google earth and export / import data ?

Import the roads from Google earth ?
I don't know how. The DCW data is the elevation data. The e00 (ArcInfo?) data contains the roads, rivers, towns, cities, airbases, etc. The new data would need to be put into these old file formats for DEM2Terrain to read it properly. Unless that has already been done and the programs are open source (free) I don't see how we could do it. Besides, taking data from Google Earth isn't free (its under copyright).

Edit: Based on my quick Googling it appears it MIGHT be possible to get updated data that can then be exported as the required .e00 files we need from the ARCView program. It is highly likely, however, this will cost money to get it.
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-06 21:10:49

Y'all have too many "Features\Objective's" in IRAN already!!!
Don't understand this line of thought!?!?!?!?!
Is it because of better tiling pic's. i.e. more PhotoRealistic???? Or SRTM\BAZT for OF\BMS???
Sherlock, you have already started on the Path work for the "legacy" TileSet.
Do you want to wait for a new Map\Tileset and a complete rebuild of the terrain???

Just asking you Ol'Man..............!?!?!?!

demer

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by 87th_striker » 2010-08-06 21:16:00

Just grabbed Road 94 south toward Bandar Abbas. This it how it looks;

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
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<Document>
	<name>KmlFile</name>
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		<Pair>
			<key>normal</key>
			<styleUrl>#sn_ylw-pushpin</styleUrl>
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		<IconStyle>
			<scale>1.3</scale>
			<Icon>
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			</Icon>
			<hotSpot x="20" y="2" xunits="pixels" yunits="pixels"/>
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	<Style id="sn_ylw-pushpin">
		<IconStyle>
			<scale>1.1</scale>
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			<hotSpot x="20" y="2" xunits="pixels" yunits="pixels"/>
		</IconStyle>
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	<Placemark>
		<name>Road 94</name>
		<styleUrl>#msn_ylw-pushpin</styleUrl>
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</kml>
I just didn't delete any coordinates, but it took me less than 10 minutes. I wonder how the e00 data looks for the roads ? By the way, this road data can be considerably simplified. It's just lat long data.

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-06 21:48:11

PATH'S, Man, THINK PATH'S in Falcon!!!!!
MicroProse\Louie gave up year's ago on having GU's move down road's,H*ll he even wanted Train's moving down Track's!!!!!
LP\AF made it kind of work,BUT they had Hundred's of PAID people on their team.

Please take a minute and read the Manual that come's with Fred "BaldEagle" Balding's Pathmaker Tool.You'll understand better I think.


Not trying to slight ya' here,just say'n!!!!!

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-06 22:06:46

demer928 wrote:Y'all have too many "Features\Objective's" in IRAN already!!!
Don't understand this line of thought!?!?!?!?!
Is it because of better tiling pic's. i.e. more PhotoRealistic???? Or SRTM\BAZT for OF\BMS???
Sherlock, you have already started on the Path work for the "legacy" TileSet.
Do you want to wait for a new Map\Tileset and a complete rebuild of the terrain???

Just asking you Ol'Man..............!?!?!?!

demer
Now demer... don't go spastic on me now! ;)

I would like to update/add to the tile set (texture.zip/texture.bin), yes. The current tileset for Iran (and ODS; same one used for both theaters) is too limited in my opinion. But if no one steps forward with the necessary graphic skills to make more varied desert tiles then we'll have to proceed with what we have. I know that I can't do tiles because I'm not a "Photoshop/PSP gawd" and I have very limited "skillz" in that area.

As to updated objectives with new data; I'm not keen on the idea...I'm just saying it's not as impossible as I first thought it was.

Do you have something in the "wings" you haven't told me about to add to the tileset and/or terrain elevations?

P.S. And don't call me Ol'Man. I'm sensitive about my age... :lol:
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-07 00:13:11

Sherlock wrote:
demer928 wrote:Y'all have too many "Features\Objective's" in IRAN already!!!
Don't understand this line of thought!?!?!?!?!
Is it because of better tiling pic's. i.e. more PhotoRealistic???? Or SRTM\BAZT for OF\BMS???
Sherlock, you have already started on the Path work for the "legacy" TileSet.
Do you want to wait for a new Map\Tileset and a complete rebuild of the terrain???

Just asking you Ol'Man..............!?!?!?!

demer
Now demer... don't go spastic on me now! ;)

I would like to update/add to the tile set (texture.zip/texture.bin), yes. The current tileset for Iran (and ODS; same one used for both theaters) is too limited in my opinion. But if no one steps forward with the necessary graphic skills to make more varied desert tiles then we'll have to proceed with what we have. I know that I can't do tiles because I'm not a "Photoshop/PSP gawd" and I have very limited "skillz" in that area.

As to updated objectives with new data; I'm not keen on the idea...I'm just saying it's not as impossible as I first thought it was.

Do you have something in the "wings" you haven't told me about to add to the tileset and/or terrain elevations?

P.S. And don't call me Ol'Man. I'm sensitive about my age... :lol:
O'kay, Dude will leave our age's out of it!!!!! :wink:
Don't know about the Tile's, though, seem's Polak has expressed some interest though. Dunno...!?!?!? IF he is interested in "Giving" his work away.You'd have to talk to the Polak.... :D (Don't worry T*d,half my family came from your country!!!) about that.

See,here we are,this is the connundrum of Open Dev'n.You are now working on a TileSet\.thr file that is built on what we have ATM,transferable to all version's.So I have stopped any further campaign development for FFVersion other than correct the TCL\DB's conflict's until I have your PATH file's.Adding further MAP edit's make's no sense IMHO!!!!
H*ll to get them to run out to 4-6 day's in FF 2D was a challenge by itself!!!!! :D
In the "Wing's"...HAHAHA...AS I HAVE STATED B4, WE NEED TO REDUCE THE # OF STATIC OBJECTS IN THESE LARGE THEATER'S.

NO, BS there........Period!!!!! Not only do the variou's version's of the Code have a problem "doin' the Math", as well the editing tool's do not support them.

demer

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-07 00:30:10

Not for nuth'n, Terrain elevation for Iran should be 14,000 ft..... :wink: You know where to edit it.
I had a suggestion\ORDER from someone last year to use his tool to get the "Real" elevation's of your Theater!!!! :D

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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-07 05:31:23

demer928 wrote:Not for nuth'n, Terrain elevation for Iran should be 14,000 ft..... :wink: You know where to edit it.
I had a suggestion\ORDER from someone last year to use his tool to get the "Real" elevation's of your Theater!!!! :D

demer
There are currently 7,563 objectives in the Iran theater .CAMs. Can you explain, in detail and with specifics, as to why we must lower the number of objectives below 4,096? The theater runs fine in AF with the larger number of objects (at least on the "surface").

There are also elevations above 17,700 feet in the mountains south of the Caspian Sea and north of Tehran. This is very accurate considering the highest mountain in Iran is Mount Damavand at 5,610 m (18,406 ft). Here's a terrainview look at what I'm talking about:

http://a.imageshack.us/img576/3225/iran ... ations.jpg

And, out of curiousity, who was that who's giving "suggestions/orders" to you to get "the 'Real' elevation's" of this theater? Maybe they need to do their homework better? :wink:
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Polak » 2010-08-07 11:09:43

Don't know about the Tile's, though, seem's Polak has expressed some interest though. Dunno...!?!?!? IF he is interested in "Giving" his work away.You'd have to talk to the Polak....
My tiles are going to be available very soon. When ready.
"Giving" them is not the right word, but no matter.
Meanwhile I will try to provide some generic material for others to make a use of it , if so desired. I am thinking about making transition layers, just roads and just rivers which can be used as a layer with any underlaying terrain texture.

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Sherlock
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by Sherlock » 2010-08-07 17:00:57

Polak wrote:
Don't know about the Tile's, though, seem's Polak has expressed some interest though. Dunno...!?!?!? IF he is interested in "Giving" his work away.You'd have to talk to the Polak....
My tiles are going to be available very soon. When ready.
"Giving" them is not the right word, but no matter.
Meanwhile I will try to provide some generic material for others to make a use of it , if so desired. I am thinking about making transition layers, just roads and just rivers which can be used as a layer with any underlaying terrain texture.
That would be excellent Polak if we could use your tiles to enhance the variability of the desert types of cover. Appreciate it.
Sherlock
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demer928
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Gaming Interests: Falcon 4.0
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Re: Plan for Editing Iran in 2010

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-07 17:55:51

Sherlock wrote: There are currently 7,563 objectives in the Iran theater .CAMs. Can you explain, in detail and with specifics, as to why we must lower the number of objectives below 4,096? The theater runs fine in AF with the larger number of objects (at least on the "surface").

And, out of curiousity, who was that who's giving "suggestions/orders" to you to get "the 'Real' elevation's" of this theater? Maybe they need to do their homework better? :wink:
It's not that the variou's Falcon code cannot handle the large number of obj.'s,outside of long load time's.It is more that some of the available Tool's we use to Edit the theater cannot handle them.If I have learned one thing in Hacking Falcon it is this.The Less you throw at the Ol'Girl to calculate,the better she run's! :)

As for my old bosse's,yes. :wink:

demer

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