PMC Tactical forums

Okay,with the release of 3.1, I have had to go back and rebuild Persian Lightning again...HAHAHA!!!
But,it is working in all Three version's ATM.
AF seem's OK but it still "Lock's Up" on occasion, don't know why ATM?!?! (But am looking at it)
OF need's some work,but maybe wait for 4.8...!?!?!?!!?
FF has stopped CTD'ing in game and only getting one on exiting the game. Can y'all live with that for now???

As far as stability go's AF seem's the most stable ATM. Prob'lly the easiest to fix? I have not looked at AF,other then a reference, in year's. But,it is slowly coming back.
FF has imposed some difficultie's that are are being resolved ATM. Y'all will have to decide between using the current terrdata\object's in FF or using your own CampaignDB. I suggest the later due to the fact that it let's you include\preclude what you want in campaign.Important at this point is to match the CT #'s to the DB you intend to use. Some have changed.

Now some question's for the Original Developer's!!!!!

1) Is there a reason that some of the Nuke site's\Research facilitie's are Town's???? Is it because Citie's\Town's can be the only Primary Objective's????
2) Y'all have three bridge's as beach\volcano..please explain.

ANY input,comment's,suggestion's are welcomed.Heck,......Y'all can tell me to F' off if Ya' don't want my help.

demer

demer928 wrote:rebuild Persian Lightning again

Oh okay, did you use the TCL's I put for download 2009?

FF has stopped CTD'ing in game and only getting one on exiting the game. Can y'all live with that for now

Guess we have to, didn't you mention it is some problem with too many objectives or something?

Nothing much we can do about it, well in the sense of not reworking the whole objective system.

decide between using the current terrdata\object's in FF or using your own CampaignDB.

If we make our own and next FF release comes with new fixes to database... don't we miss those fixes then?

Is there a reason that some of the Nuke site's\Research facilitie's are Town's

No idea, I think they should be those nuclear objective models. Are you saying they are not?

have three bridge's as beach\volcano..please explain.

I cannot as I have no idea about this. Three bridges are listed as beach / volcano objectives?

Y'all can tell me to F' off if Ya' don't want my help.

Of course we want help and all help is greatly appreciated

Snake Man wrote:

demer928 wrote:rebuild Persian Lightning again

Oh okay, did you use the TCL's I put for download 2009?

No, used them as a BASE then matched the CT's to the DB's via F4Browse

FF has stopped CTD'ing in game and only getting one on exiting the game. Can y'all live with that for now

Guess we have to, didn't you mention it is some problem with too many objectives or something?

Yes,the src\rsrc has been resolved.(i.e. too many objective's for the TOOL\Code to handle.The CTD I am getting now has to do with how FF is handling the PS file. Seem's they don't use a trail.dat. Known issue and may be resolved with replacing an Obj\Uni Type with what is compatible.(haven't found it yet,but I'm on it!!)Go's back to the Naming\CT issue

Nothing much we can do about it, well in the sense of not reworking the whole objective system.

No,is only happening in certain version's,you would only need to match that version's Code requirement's,That is all

decide between using the current terrdata\object's in FF or using your own CampaignDB.

If we make our own and next FF release comes with new fixes to database... don't we miss those fixes then?

No,your CampaignDB is your own,and reside's totally independent of FF terrdata\object's. I thought Hustler had explained that and the unlocked terrdata DB,but maybe not. I will check with him and see if "I" let the "Cat out of the Bag" so to speak.I don't think so ATM. IIRC the intent was to give Theater Builder's that ability.

Is there a reason that some of the Nuke site's\Research facilitie's are Town's

No idea, I think they should be those nuclear objective models. Are you saying they are not?

Yes,I am saying they are "Town's"!!! I believe that there was a thought (not wrong!! giv'in the available info at the time!!)in the past that to get to an "Endgame" in the .tri file that you needed at least an armoured unit to occupy said objective.I think the thought was that only Citie's\Town's could be a "Primary" objective, which is to be honest, not true in any version.

have three bridge's as beach\volcano..please explain.

I cannot as I have no idea about this. Three bridges are listed as beach / volcano objectives?

Yes,But Thanx,Not Anymore!!!!!!

Y'all can tell me to F' off if Ya' don't want my help.

Of course we want help and all help is greatly appreciated

No problem and Thank you,but I was optimistic of getting these done in a month or two.........seem's now that maybe December\March is a better goal for me\PMC

Sorry!!!!!!!!!!
Regard's,
demer

'Kay, Just got off the Tele with Hustler. We are good to go with FF!!! It will require that we have a seperate DB though,as I expected.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a problem!!! (Already done!!! ) should translate\port to the other version's..........!!!!
Ahhhh.........Open your .cam file's in TacEdit.....Point TacEdit in Propertie's to your Campaign Folder and Point your Object's to the terr\data folder you are using......etc.etc.etc.........!!!!!!!

demer
(BTW he seemed excited that there is a concentrated effort on this Theater, but in the end it will fly anyway's!)

demer,
are you making changes to the .cam files? If so we need to coordinate things. I am working on the .tri file for save2.cam right now but plan to work on the main paths / links for the flow of ground units in the save2.cam next. We all need to coordinate our changes since there is no way I know of to integrate my changes with yours, etc. Thanks.

demer928 wrote:No,your CampaignDB is your own,and reside's totally independent of FF terrdata\object's.

My point exactly.

When we build our theaters\<theater>\objects from a FF 5.5.1 terrdata\objects database and then next version of FF is released with improvements into their terrdata\objects... we are still using the FF 5.5.1 database from our theater directory.

How is that a good thing regarding we are missing all the improvements?

@Sherlock, I am presently working on the save0.cam file,trying to narrow down the data that are causing CTD's etc. Any work to the map or .tri can easily be incorporated into the base file and the camp builder's can go from there. I will PM you later with more detail.

@Snakeman, the terrdata\object's that came with FF5.5 was exhaustively researched\rebuilt over many month's (believe me I know) and should be considered IMO the Master DB for any theater in FF. Using it as a base will insure theater compatability in FF. Any future improvement's to it are likely to be compatable with the present DB.
The beauty of having a dedicated theater CampaignDB is that you can edit it to the need's of your theater without effecting other theater's in FF!.For example,let's say you want an armored unit in your Vietnam theater to consist of only M-48\M-113's, if you modify the terrdata\objects then ALL theater's using that DB are going to have the armored unit intended for Vietnam!!!!But,by using the dedicated CampaignDB then only Vietnam get's the edited unit!!!!


demer

demer928 wrote:Any future improvement's to it are likely to be compatable with the present DB.

If I have edited the files, how is future improvements compatible with them?

Snake Man wrote:

demer928 wrote:Any future improvement's to it are likely to be compatable with the present DB.

If I have edited the files, how is future improvements compatible with them?

I do not believe any major change's are forthcoming to the FF MasterDB, I could be wrong though. Maybe some work at the top of the tree. Any theater specific edit's should be easily reproduced if there is an updated MasterDB released by the FF boyz.What theater specific edit's am I talking about?!?! Say available weapon's for the AC(SSD),Unit make up(UCD)...etc. I believe those would be transferable to any New DB.


demer

Yep gotcha. Well, we just have to hope

Snake Man wrote:Yep gotcha. Well, we just have to hope

We'll be cool, I'm sure!!!!

O'kay,On to bigger and better thing's!!!!! Got save0.cam to work without crashing in FF5.5.x!!!!!
Seem's the PS crash on exit was due to an object. Unfortunately I don't know which one ATM!!!!!!!!!!!!...HAHA
We need to reduce the Number of Volatile(dynamic) and Non-Volatile (Static) Object's though to get it to work successfully.
Think,Object's at bare min. < 4000,Unit's at bare min. <1000 (okay I have to explain here, set a Squad of say F-16CJ's on a base,that is 24 AC the Engine\Code has to draw\calculate, multiply that (the24) by 514 now you may see what I'm say'in). There are WAY too many AC Squad's at present and the Roster #'s are bad. That is part of the reason you have the ATM (guess you guy's call it the ATO) tasking your CJ an hour into the game!!!!! If you select the first flight that come's up (in your CJ) you will return to the debriefing.Why!!!!! that CJ has a Specific Role Score Assigned to it in FF!!!That being SEAD\ESCORT(NO AGM's)........... I have replaced that with the F-16CG and the player will now get flight's within 1-2 minute's of Cam start in FF.

Regard's
demer

Got her going like a R*ped Ape Now!!!!!!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49 ... 28/5-2.jpg

But,I think in this Scenario we might be better off pushing for EndGame once Iraq's Border is secured.
Prob'ly like Day 9-12.

Thought's?????

demer

cool..you made big progress.

BTW Ending game in 9-12 days sounds good... whats the target obj- Tehran?

ccc wrote:cool..you made big progress.

BTW Ending game in 9-12 days sounds good... whats the target obj- Tehran?

Thanx ccc !!!,

I think the retaking of Objective's back to the Iraq\Iran Border should be the EndGame.
Kinda' slap their hand for even trying!!! That is very doable in 9-12 day's in this Scenario.
Remember Blue is on the Defense at start and Tehran is a Loooong way's away.

I'm kinda' saving Tehran for Hammerfall. I think, givin' the immense amount of Air Superiority in that Scenario and shifting the bulk of the Coalition GU's east of Baghdad, that a march into Tehran is possible in 12-15 day's.

Regard's,
demer

demer928 wrote:

ccc wrote:cool..you made big progress.

BTW Ending game in 9-12 days sounds good... whats the target obj- Tehran?

Thanx ccc !!!,

I think the retaking of Objective's back to the Iraq\Iran Border should be the EndGame.
Kinda' slap their hand for even trying!!! That is very doable in 9-12 day's in this Scenario.
Remember Blue is on the Defense at start and Tehran is a Loooong way's away.

I'm kinda' saving Tehran for Hammerfall. I think, givin' the immense amount of Air Superiority in that Scenario and shifting the bulk of the Coalition GU's east of Baghdad, that a march into Tehran is possible in 12-15 day's.

Regard's,
demer

Agreed demer. And the taking of Tehran fits the Op HammerFall scenario back story also with Iran sponsering terrorist strikes against US, Britain and Israel.

Some Persian Lightning GU shot's,almost there on day 5

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49 ... 28/2-6.jpg

it will take another 3-6 day's to get to Dezfal and EndGame:

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49 ... 28/1-7.jpg

If they retake Al Basrah...Well you did'nt do your job Pilot!!!!!

Regard's,
demer

great job!

BTW - do you find any "nowhere" or odd naming objectives in Iran theater?

ccc wrote:great job!

BTW - do you find any "nowhere" or odd naming objectives in Iran theater?

Yes,in most Theater's, including the STOCK one's in FF5.5.1, you will still find some miss\un-named objective's.
I have done some extensive work on the iran.wch file mainly so I can identify Primary\Secondary Objective's while editing in TacEdit.It help's when the objective name's on the in-game campaign map match's those in TacEdit.
As well, I have removed ~5000 unnecessary objective's from Iran.
Falcon build's list's to keep track of where everything is in the VU (VirtualUniverse) . The shorter the list's,the less it has to calculate\work.Soooooo...more stability!!!!!(Less CTD's)

BTW: I know AF use's different naming\numbering convention's in their Code.Just for example. Falcon uses simple .dat file's in SimData, where AF opted for a .bin file structure.So those two external DataBase's are not compatible and cannot be "Read In".
Maybe Ed_1 can help you with the AF structure.

Regard's
demer

Demer,
We count on you for a working campaign
For a turely working campaign, my definition is: both sides have GUs, one side beat the other side's ground force, then move to capture obj and win. we've kept looking for a golden rule of campaign-making in past years.. now we really hope somebody in the know tell/show us the secret of campaign engine.

for VU - yes, overloading/data overflow causes lots CTDs in FF5.. many crashlogs show VU error near highly-poplulated area.

Eagerly waiting for your iran mod!

A little update,
Ran into a little "snag" on Day 8. I "think" I know where it is. Should'nt effect your AF work though, Sherlock.Your path's\movecost\link's and Code are quite different in AF.BTW: That "Zero" comment in the PM on Move Cost, seem's to be wrong for AF. Seem's they use all "zeroe's" unless they want to, exclude, a GU from moving in that direction!?!?!?! Maybe ED_1 can shine some light on that.

As it is now in FF.Seem's my "Rogue" reinf are "Stuck in the Mud", as are most of the PMC camp's for FF. I don't have alot of time ATM, but I'll eventually chase it down.


Regard's and Thank's for the Kind Word's,

demer

Day8 ..Smay8 ............Get er' done!!!!!







demer
BTW: Notice that the "Blue" side is only controlling those objective's neccesary to get to the "Endgame".

wow congrats!!

BTW~what's the magic? can you post the cam for test?

ccc wrote:wow congrats!!

BTW~what's the magic? can you post the cam for test?

MAGIC!!!,.....HAHAHA!!!!,there is no magic, a good understanding of the Campaign file's and how they interact with the "Tool's and File's" is required though!!!!
Once I am satisfied with the result's, I will post, not just a .cam file,but a whole new "Campaign Folder". There were Many file's I had to change to get these result's!!!! I have spoke with Hustler about releasing these unlocked for FF, and he has stated "Go Ahead". IF you know the tool's, you WILL be able to figure out how it is done!!!!

BTW:I had to rewrite the entire Iran TCL script's to get to this point!!!! (Not an Easy Task!!)IMHO it is prob'ly easier to place them by hand, to get what you want.

Regard's,
demer

demer928 wrote:A little update,
Ran into a little "snag" on Day 8. I "think" I know where it is. Should'nt effect your AF work though, Sherlock.Your path's\movecost\link's and Code are quite different in AF.BTW: That "Zero" comment in the PM on Move Cost, seem's to be wrong for AF. Seem's they use all "zeroe's" unless they want to, exclude, a GU from moving in that direction!?!?!?! Maybe ED_1 can shine some light on that.

As it is now in FF.Seem's my "Rogue" reinf are "Stuck in the Mud", as are most of the PMC camp's for FF. I don't have alot of time ATM, but I'll eventually chase it down.
Regard's and Thank's for the Kind Word's,
demer

So, if I understand what you are saying about the AF implementation, I should set all my movement costs equal to zero unless I don't want the Ground Units (GU) to move in that direction?

Sherlock wrote: So, if I understand what you are saying about the AF implementation, I should set all my movement costs equal to zero unless I don't want the Ground Units (GU) to move in that direction?

That is what it seem's for AF. Though I'm using 5 for the first 4 (Static\Foot\Wheeled\Track) which seem's to work OK in both FF & AF.If I set them (the first 4) to 255 around the Airbase's then they seem to go around\avoid them or stop, if no other link is available.I think more testing for AF is needed.

Also,so you know, I used Phoenix711's, Thr tool to eliminate any tile conflict.
I have'nt yet messed with elevation's,but I think when I get to the next scenario I'll have to take a look at it.
As it is in Persian Lightning, the GU's are mostly fighting between Basra and Dezful which is mostly flat.As I stated B4 the road from Baghdad to Tehran is tough(lot's of Mountain's).

Hope's this help's.

Regard's,
demer

ok demer been playing this, is it possible to change AC in Campaign mode as German Tornado`s seem to be the only type that show up?....more realistic for them to RAf and /or RSAF ones.....Thanks.

Update:
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49 ... 28/win.jpg

Looking good for XMAS!!!!
demer

great! only one campaign done? it looks like an iran-iraq scenerio.

btw.. how many GUs in your campaign? pic only shows armoured GUs..is there any infantry/artillery/engineer GUs?

ccc wrote:great! only one campaign done? it looks like an iran-iraq scenerio.

btw.. how many GUs in your campaign? pic only shows armoured GUs..is there any infantry/artillery/engineer GUs?

Only one so far,but a lot of the map work is done, which will apply to the next two scenario's.
Yes there are other unit type's.

demer

A little update for FF5.5.3. Y'all have to modify your Theater ART file's though.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49 ... 553wow.jpg

Regard's,
demer

I saw the campaign ended on Day 2 1840..a good start.

Simmers have very limited sorties to fly in a 2-day campaign..would you plan to extend the war time ?
Adjusting GU quantities or adding iran reinforcement should help.

anyway, glad to hear a winnable cam available in near future!

ccc wrote:I saw the campaign ended on Day 2 1840..a good start.

Simmers have very limited sorties to fly in a 2-day campaign..would you plan to extend the war time ?
Adjusting GU quantities or adding iran reinforcement should help.

anyway, glad to hear a winnable cam available in near future!

Yes, a 2-day winnable war!!!! That has more to do with FF553 and their DB\Code work, I believe.
It was taking blufor GU's much more time to obtain their objectives in FF552!!!

I agree,I'll have to make it a little harder for them!!!!!

demer

btw thanks for the encouragement

Persian Lightning Campaign is done.
Plan to put out a BETA soon for testing (2-3 Falcon week's..........HAHAHA!!!....just kid'n!!! )
Started work on Hammerfall and that should answer the "Can We BOMB them into the Stoneage and WIN question.
As for Brothers at Arm's......welllllllllll......!?!?! Most people @ FF know I loathe "Hysterical"...uhmmm..Historical Scenario's.
But,here are my thought's on it anyway.
1. Period specific AC\Gu\Weapon's....OK
2. Winnable........Ahhhh..it ended in a draw. Hard to model Politic's in a game.....OK
3. 8 YEAR's........c'mon it ain't going to happen!!!......OK
4. Pick a place,battle or REASONABLE time frame that led them to the Peace Treaty and model that.

Regard's,
demer

EXCELLENT.

historical campaigns would be great - you may create TWO - one favors Iran to win, the other favors Iraq.
their win condition does not have to capture capitals like Baghdad or Tehran.. just a big city behind/near the front line.
the key is reporducing the clash of GUs along the FLOT, like that in korea DMZ.

demer928 wrote:...As for Brothers at Arm's......welllllllllll
4. Pick a place,battle or REASONABLE time frame that led them to the Peace Treaty and model that.

Regard's,
demer

That sounds a reasonable approach to me.

Sherlock wrote:

demer928 wrote:...As for Brothers at Arm's......welllllllllll
4. Pick a place,battle or REASONABLE time frame that led them to the Peace Treaty and model that.

Regard's,
demer

That sounds a reasonable approach to me.

Agreed then.


demer

demer928 wrote:

Sherlock wrote:

demer928 wrote:...As for Brothers at Arm's......welllllllllll
4. Pick a place,battle or REASONABLE time frame that led them to the Peace Treaty and model that.

Regard's,
demer

That sounds a reasonable approach to me.

Agreed then.
demer

When you decide on specifics, post them and I will follow your lead for AF version when I get to that point (real life has been pounding me to bits these last few months; not much accomplished on AF version of Iran I'm afraid).

@Sherlock
'Kay,Dial me up if you get a chance.

demer

Cancelled,due to Non-Cooperative interaction.

Sorry,
demer

What do you mean by Non-Cooperative interaction?