3D model tweak - data format changes

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Luk
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3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2008-12-26 15:11:21

Hi and Marry Xmas.
I have question. There are some unused models inside native/default F4AF objects database. I have added Mirage F1 squad inside new Theater and it works well. F-1 has good model, radar, FM and weapons. But the landing gear does not show up in 3d. Afterbuner flame does not have good position. Skin is missing.
OK, skin is not problem. I wanted to make new one. But what about gear and flame? I suppose it is caused because of some minor data-format changes since SP times. I suppose AF database has its root in SP age. How can I fix this please? (Lod Editor shows everything well positioned)

Thank you very much.
Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2008-12-27 01:14:46

you may check your new lode - if it has XDOF type node, or XSwitch node, AF probably unable to activiate them.

BTW be sure to check simdata.zip.. try edit " isComplex = 1 " for the ac.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2009-02-01 13:48:24

Hi Sherlock.
I need help with this issue.
Thanks to CCC for the answer. I wanted to reply, but with some positive contribution... :?
There is a problem - AF simdata.zip is not readable in simple text editor (binary packed).
You have some hexedit skills and basic db skills as well. I want to fix model appearance problems and change the loadouts.
F1 can carry only Magic in AF- and not on wingtips, but huge hardpoint for it. The Matra 530 and S530 are missing.
I thing F1 will be very helpfull AC for unbalanced ODS campaing.

Pitty I have here only these images - in the fly (but with AB off)...if AB is on, it has wrong orientation
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Grounded. As you can see gear is missing.
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Thanks
Luk
Sherlock wrote:
Luk,

I see two different problems here:

1. Unable to read / edit packed binary simdata.zip to change aircraft appearance in sim (note those changes may or may not be supported by the AF exe).
2. Edits you want to make to hardpoints and/or weapons included for a particular aircraft.

I do not have much hexedit skills I am afraid. I've only used the hexedit to do the cockpit investigation I previously reported. There I was dealing with ascii strings in the binary file so it was easy to read and change those. Dealing with hex strings, etc., is something I know nothing about (that's coding stuff and I don't know anything about that).

I can edit (with LPBrowse) the hardpoints and add/change weapons available on a hardpoint. Is that what you want to do?
Thanks.
I will try it by myself.
Following help with hardpoints is very welcomed.
Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Sherlock » 2009-02-01 18:08:44

Luk wrote: Thanks.
I will try it by myself.
Following help with hardpoints is very welcomed.
Luk
Luke,
You've already probably thought of it but I will bring it up just in case you haven't. If you have the right software tools you can export a similar model of the F-1 from AF and examine it to determine how they did the AB and the landing gear. Then you can use that information (examining it in the SIMDATA.ZIP) to trial and error for the F-1 until you get what you want (using the hex editor). That is a theory though because I am talking about things I have not attempted to do myself... :)

When working with F4Browse/LPBrowse never forget to backup your installation first just in case you screw something up and need to restore!

As to using F4Browse/LPBrowse to edit the hardpoints and weapons tell me exactly which hardpoints you want to edit and what weapons you want to go on which hardpoint and I will post pictures and descriptions to get you started. For starters, here is a picture in LPBrowse of the default AF F-1 vehicle:

Here is the unit view after you double-click on the squadron CT:
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Here is the Vehicle Data Details view after you doubleclick on the first plane in the squadron list:
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Here is the hardpoint data screen after you select the first hardpoint (by double-clicking again) in the Vehicle Data Details view:
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And, finally, here is the weapon data for the first weapon on the hardpoint that was selected (in this case a R550 Magic missile):
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-07-19 11:21:54

Thanks to Sherlock for previous post, unfortunaly I did not any progress with Mirage F1. :(
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will use this old thread to continue discussion about unused AF models and their resurrections.

I have seen this thread, posted by ccc and I am also looking forward for some screenshots.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22280

I guess, they choosed more profi way to make AF world more corolfull.

This is my contemporary approach:
I tested F 104 this weekend. This AC had no skin before, it also lacked any weapon hardpoints and was not associated to squadron stores.
But the landing gear and burner are good positioned.
So I tweaked it a little and made some temporary and lame textures. It is because I dont have "unwraped" wireframe texture for it(so I did some reference spots...etc). If you can guide me, how to do it with AF models, I would be happy.

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My Starfaighter can carry Aspide and two versions of Sparows + 3 sidewinder versions(even in wingtips). The tanks are unused F100 tanks at the moment. I flew 4-6 flights with it and it was really funny. This is even worse than Fishbed, its a brick. :)

I need also unwraped wireframe texture(or even better - the template) for these old models:
A-7E/H Corsair
F-8 Crusader
Tu 160 Blackjack
...

I have found a template for MIrageIII, so I can make Swiss skin without problem.

Here is a bonus shot of my quasi "L39"(MB339 tweak). My approach is quite safe, but perhaps a little bit lame.
I am really interested in skunkworks approach. Perhaps they have perfect starfighter and others...?
Image

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-18 02:17:17

I was a little bit tired of the strange "bridge stuff", so took a Gripen for a Baltic trip.
Unfortunally two T-50 attacked me surprisingly.
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I have seen "great naval battles" in the dirty water then...
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..and made pass over my airport, housing friendly F1 Mirages(old arrears) at the time...
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I repainted my plane, droped the bag and finally landed safely. :lol:
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It is good to have some fun when things dont work...
Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-18 02:59:50

Hi Luk - Great shots 8-)

you just make several old lod models alive!!
i exclusively like the two old lods, F104 and MirageF1 .. heheh i built them years ago - in SP era.

Gripen looks amazing - a model from Thoarek?

and.. T-50 is cool - a tweak based on exsiting su-27 lod?

and..what's that ship lod? :shock: i can not recognize it.. looks like a ship hull plus a tank turret?

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-18 09:28:16

you just make several old lod models alive!!
i exclusively like the two old lods, F104 and MirageF1 .. heheh i built them years ago - in SP era.
I like them too! Did not know both of them are yours. Nice!
I just painted few polys in front of F1 canopy, tweaked or disabled some switches to make it work in AF.
Olso edited loadouts - it can carry 2 AS30L's, Martel, Exocet, Super 530 and invisible external chaff/flare/ECM pods. This AC does not have very strong engine, but is very pleasant to fly.
I wated to convert some parts into the "textured polys" - just few places for marking and perhaps paint "fake shining" over the canopy (or just make it more dark). I think it would be also great AC for ODS (painted with green Iraqi triangles).

The Starfighter has still my lame skin. But I have cleaned my registry by hand in the last week. So I have working SP4 install now - I have found an original F 104 texture there. I can use it to enhance the skin for the final release.
Gripen looks amazing - a model from Thoarek?
yes it is his nice free model
I have replaced unused Mirage-2009 slot + tweaked it to carry US armament. These AC's are very similar in general performace. I can just tweek RCS yet...
and.. T-50 is cool - a tweak based on exsiting su-27 lod?
it is tweaked Su-32 lod. I edited it vertex after wertex, painted some faces etc. I replaced Su37 by it. It is well setted for dogfight and everything. Also Su37 is just a demonstrator and there is big family of Su 27 derivates in AF. I want to make one Baltic scenario in early 2k using Eurocanards + F16/15 vs latest russian stuff (without 5th gen).
The second one is the second decade scenario, including 5th generation. So I need Raptor's counterpart. I want to do "Su37/T50" more stealthly(but probably a little bit less than F22) and redirect to F22 FM if possible.
and..what's that ship lod? :shock: i can not recognize it.. looks like a ship hull plus a tank turret?
I wanted to prove my fake NAVAL battles idea, so tweaked some not widely used lods/units.
One vessel is Chung-ma - this SAM is used in only one unit South Korea/NATO hq(i have added more hitpoints to it). It has nothing to do in EU, so I used it as an escort vessel. The second one is Chinese Type85 (more hitpoints, more powered gun etc). My new units contain 3 - 7 vessels acording to purpose (naval icons of course), can fight each other, even fire at coastline objectives. They are fully manageable through waypoints of course. I want also add some heavier "artyllery/rocket" vessel into the Type 90 naval unit(corvette simulation or something). They all can not pass to the dry land (we all know it is not problem to make an unpassable link :mrgreen: )

I am focused on the campaign/terrain work, just needed some lame units to prove my ideas.

I will have an appeal to you one day, to replace my lame models (dont speak about Thoarek's gripen) by some of your lowpoly models. I dont want to disturb you too much, just need something simple, using simple switches or just few basic DOFs.

I unofficialy tried your L39 conversion. AF can not handle XDOFs/XSwitches in my unexperienced opinion. So I had to convert different part of the model, disabled something. I just wanted to fly this beautifull bird in AF. By the way this is an interresting AC even for other scenarios - ok here in Eu it is the only combat plane the Baltic states operate, but it was also widely used in Chechnya, Georgia (besides exCzechAF Georgian Su25s)
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-18 11:56:55

and.. T-50 is cool - a tweak based on exsiting su-27 lod?
it is tweaked Su-32 lod. I edited it vertex after wertex, painted some faces etc.
woohoo~ it's tough to create models by editing vertices.. i did the same tweak many years ago. :wink:
I wanted to prove my fake NAVAL battles idea, so tweaked some not widely used lods/units.
cool.. it looks promising - if moving on specialized sea-texture tiles. Oil rigs and small islands could be the objectives in this sea-lane network.
I unofficialy tried your L39 conversion.
yeh- nice. the original 3d model is created by Miran, a Czech MSFS simmer.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-18 12:42:44

cool.. it looks promising - if moving on specialized sea-texture tiles. Oil rigs and small islands could be the objectives in this sea-lane network.
Yes, I want to use Oil rigs/platforms + some invisible "quotes". The primary could be some port nearby Denmark(red)/Tallin(blue). So the true big wessels as carriers, battleships and cruisers are operating in standoff areas, while these smaller controlable ships are fighting like a GUs. They are smoking brown, but it is cool, militarry vessels dont use ecological pellets/granule like me at home :lol:. But if the smaller vessels want to capture the primary, they have to pass nearby the true navy fleet with longer distance weapons (player participation needed to eliminate).
I had the idea to have one NAVY primary and one landbased primary for each team.
yeh- nice. the original 3d model is created by Miran, a Czech MSFS simmer.
I know he did the mesh. But I downloaded the original MSFS models from his site about week ago and the textures are different. So it looks, you did your own mapping in LODeditor or 3Dsmax. I am sure Milan is a nice guy, so I dont suppose any problem if asked for official "blessing" to use it in F4 world.
BTW I have nice L159 made by different CZ modeler, so I can ask him also... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

On the other hand, I really like lowpoly models, still remember the dancing in early 90s, when did objects/sobjects substitutions in my Falcon3.0 folder. I had to prepare spaciall autoexec.bat to alocate/free some additional memory bites for it. I was so excited when some ACs got the canopy then! It was a big mystery for me before - the models in tac-ref and back-side of the Falcon3 box were much more prettier, than in game 3d. :lol: I am strange, I know. I run A10 cuba for 5-10 minutes per months to look nice graphic. Still wonder somebody was not able to dig-out all the "ugly" textures from Falcon4 durind the decade! Perhaps the second decade of our millenium will be in token of "polyFalcon"!? :P

Edit: just for fun and illustration:
F16 in A10Cuba! video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwUilYDP ... re=related
Evans & Sutherland simulator (80ths) watch it since 3:40min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06mbwNg1Vw4

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-18 13:19:37

i've Miran's permission for falcon use(since SP days). no problem!

BTW Glad to hear you're a falcon3.0 simmer/modder. yeah, it's cool.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-18 22:43:04

i've Miran's permission for falcon use(since SP days). no problem!
Great!

Just added few shots of the "wolfpack" in the formation at sea.
There is also another smaller/lighter unit defined (3 vessels only), but not on the pictures.
The heaviest "corvette" unit is not finished yet.

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vessels are good visible using the "night" vision:
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from above:
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-24 00:11:22

just did some more tests:
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The anti-ship weapons are highly efective against fake NAVAL units. Their movement looks ok (better then real NAVALs). I can even make more space among the units in the future if advisable.

The units are agressive, also against ACs. There are many "bullet chains" when the enemy ASc nearby.
I have added also limited ability to fight the true NAVAL units. But it was not fully tested yet.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-24 01:20:51

looks really cool - it seems this fake naval op idea is working!
just create an area with fake-sea tiles, add several invisible or visible junction objectives to form a naval road network, then put fake naval (GUs) for fake-naval war!

btw.. glad to see my old ship lod there -russian FFL Nanuchka class.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by demer928 » 2010-11-24 01:28:37

Luk wrote:
cool.. it looks promising - if moving on specialized sea-texture tiles. Oil rigs and small islands could be the objectives in this sea-lane network.
Yes, I want to use Oil rigs/platforms + some invisible "quotes". The primary could be some port nearby Denmark(red)/Tallin(blue). So the true big wessels as carriers, battleships and cruisers are operating in standoff areas, while these smaller controlable ships are fighting like a GUs. They are smoking brown, but it is cool, militarry vessels dont use ecological pellets/granule like me at home :lol:. But if the smaller vessels want to capture the primary, they have to pass nearby the true navy fleet with longer distance weapons (player participation needed to eliminate).
I had the idea to have one NAVY primary and one landbased primary for each team.
Luk
:wink: :wink:

"Oil rigs and small islands could be the objectives in this sea-lane network."
...and how would one get the ARMORED GU's to Control them???????..........Remember???? Only ARMORED Unit's can capture\control an Objective.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-24 02:49:27

come on :wink: .. ship model is pure eye-candy! you can have an armour unit - all tanks use ship 3d model heheh :D :D

well- it should be called - armoured [ship] unit.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Hustler » 2010-11-24 04:35:02

All of this is based on CT numbers, you would need to make ships ground units via their CT. I doubt this will work, but I'll think about it for the next few days. I think your over reaching, but sometimes Falcon surprises you.
Image

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-11-25 00:36:17

Hustler wrote:All of this is based on CT numbers, you would need to make ships ground units via their CT. I doubt this will work, but I'll think about it for the next few days. I think your over reaching, but sometimes Falcon surprises you.
If I think what you mean, its not going to work .
If you mean to alter a ship (VCD data) Domain, class, Type, subtype and specific to a ground armor vehicle and then add it to a ship unit data (UCD data ) . It will ctd as you can't mix an match in unit data . the domain needs to be same (land, sea, underwotor an air) .

Your probably thinking of a lot of specific # that are hardcoded but they need right domain, class, type, subtype to go along to trigger the action .

The only thing that might work but I doubt you get full affect wanted without code work to back it up, is alter acd# on ship to one of armor. there a bit of code for acd numbers that affect how they attack or will attack.
We altered this in code in AF to support multiple sensors on ground and ships , but it might have some affect though i doubt it will let take control of area .

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Hustler » 2010-11-25 02:46:27

Ed,

I think your correct. I thought about this today and looked at a few things, but didn't see a way to make it work. The overall killer is, as you mentioned, the hard coding that exist for so many things.
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-27 02:25:14

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4th Kriegsmarine Flotilla in Greifswald - Schiffskapitan Helmuth to gruppenfurer Hanzi " zwei amerikanische destroyers approaching - feuern!" "Yes herr kapitan, but there is no button"...."I do not believe this Hansi!, what about this 1,5 meter long swipe!".... "fucking russian ship herr kapitan - feuern!!!" "Jawoohl!!!" schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh missile left the deck...
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...but crashed into the ground....."fucking french exocet missile, goldene V2!"
But Kapitain Paul, corvette no2 is firing another exocet missile...
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tracking...
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tracking...
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tracking...
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BOOOOOM!!! direct hit!!!
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ones more...
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enemy ship took the damage and started to smoke a little....but there are only 3 corvette in the area...they fired 3 missiles in 3 minutes, the first crashed (probably due to the terrain configuration - it was not on flat sea) and the last two hit the target.

When I said " I added them the limited ability to engage true NAVALs" - I meant I did not give them enough weapons to toast them(just one exocet to each corrvette - besides other conventional guns and uguided missiles already used in previously posted tests - they used to oppen the fire at 9miles before).
I thaught about it before, tried various weapons settings - from timely unlimited eye candy battles to the realistic 20-40km engagements. BUT In Falcon 3.0 days I allways hated common situations - when arrived to the battle zone, I seen just destroyed enemies very often (AI ground war did my job). So is it better to let them fight for ages without any result (waiting for me), or set the ships "realistic" and come late...? who knows...perhaps some compromise..
But sorry, I am quite drunked ...this is the last lame city test..I have the part of the "sea terrain/scene" already prepared. So more tomorrow...perhaps...thus if my wife allows me to do so...but I dubt....
Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-27 02:28:01

jhust a last note- THIS IS NOT PHOTOSHOPED gentlemans.

thanks

Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by demer928 » 2010-11-27 02:36:51

"IF" you could alter the Abstract Manager then maybe it could.....Hmmm.Never thought of it that way????
But, what I have found in trying to get the NTM to work is
#1 The Code is not there\complete for Falcon in ANY iteration!!!!!
#2 You CAN HACK the Data and end up with mixed result's (against what we believe)
#3 One would have to Define Path's\Area's etc. on the GRID for these newly mobilized NU's to go over (i.e. nothing move's on the MAP \GRID unless it has a "DEFINED" PATH\AREA !!!!

Food for thought

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-27 02:58:07

cool test screenies!

BTW Using ground unit(tank/ ground vehicle) as a 3d model base has some advantages - if you add weapon slots on the 3d ship model, you can see weapons fired from correct locations, or SAM missiles visible on launchers.. just like SAM ground vehicles!

BTW - this fake tweak may help creating a simulated amphibious landing! one coast obj as beachhead, and some (pop-up, reinforcement )landing vehicles sailing/moving to capture that beachhead obj.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-11-28 00:59:10

ccc wrote:cool test screenies!

BTW Using ground unit(tank/ ground vehicle) as a 3d model base has some advantages - if you add weapon slots on the 3d ship model, you can see weapons fired from correct locations, or SAM missiles visible on launchers.. just like SAM ground vehicles!

BTW - this fake tweak may help creating a simulated amphibious landing! one coast obj as beachhead, and some (pop-up, reinforcement )landing vehicles sailing/moving to capture that beachhead obj.
So you are saying if you added slot data in LE to Osa II model (make sure parent matches) and then enable visible flag in osa-II VCD data (assuming SSn2 styx is set to ed entity (not abstract)) it won't show up on Osa-II ?

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-28 12:39:04

Ed_1 wrote:So you are saying if you added slot data in LE to Osa II model (make sure parent matches) and then enable visible flag in osa-II VCD data (assuming SSn2 styx is set to ed entity (not abstract)) it won't show up on Osa-II ?
i assumed you mean " it will show up on Osa-II ".

yes - long time ago i tried to make Standard SAM missile visible on O.H. Perry /mk13 launcher. i edited seperate slot/coordinates and x y z matrix. BUT the missile did not show up.

now if you replacae a Ground vehicle with a ship lod - i think those weapon/missile slots/coorindates and matrix should work - just like SAM missiles on SA-6/SA-4 launcher vehicle.

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-11-28 15:03:16

ccc wrote:
Ed_1 wrote:So you are saying if you added slot data in LE to Osa II model (make sure parent matches) and then enable visible flag in osa-II VCD data (assuming SSn2 styx is set to ed entity (not abstract)) it won't show up on Osa-II ?
i assumed you mean " it will show up on Osa-II ".

yes - long time ago i tried to make Standard SAM missile visible on O.H. Perry /mk13 launcher. i edited seperate slot/coordinates and x y z matrix. BUT the missile did not show up.

now if you replacae a Ground vehicle with a ship lod - i think those weapon/missile slots/coorindates and matrix should work - just like SAM missiles on SA-6/SA-4 launcher vehicle.
ok, If you had it setup right I guess code is missing from ships for missiles to show . I can't remember does guns or radar dish rotate on ships , I see some have dof's ?

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by demer928 » 2010-11-28 20:38:01

Jeez Guy's,

B4 we go off the "MODEL DEEP END"

Can we first see if we can get the Codes to recognize these New "Naval\Ground Unit's" and allow them to move along defined paths on a defined set of sea tile's?????? I think the objective link's would not be a problem unless you are modelling an Island theater.Then again,place a few oil rigs,border's,misc objects here and there and you should be able to get them to follow.
IMHO that would be a start........... :)

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-28 22:30:05

ccc wrote:
cool test screenies!
Thanks ccc. I had even some more interresting pics captured, but unfortunaly did not post them - was a little bit "tired"
But as I said - it is the time to move to open sea now! (better occasion for some photos) :D
BTW Using ground unit(tank/ ground vehicle) as a 3d model base has some advantages - if you add weapon slots on the 3d ship model, you can see weapons fired from correct locations, or SAM missiles visible on launchers.. just like SAM ground vehicles!
Yes. That KSAM vessel launcher is visible and nicely animated - but the truth is, this launcher is "boxed". I have also placed dof-animated 240mm rocket launcher on the empty Nanuchka pedestal - the frontal one. Unfortunaly this launcher is "boxed" as well. It was movable inside LOD editor, but I did not use it finaly in game - I did not want to destabilize something in this stage...I am still a little bit shy...
But sure, there is no reason to be weapons invisible.

BTW - its up to you ccc :D ....if you are interrested....I wanted to make just a few F-NU before - let both sides to share them. I just had indifferently thaught of the possibility to make 2 texture sets for them (like some ACs). I wanted to place small triangle/flag to each ship. Wanted to colour it BLUE/RED if possible. But I dont know if it is doable/manageable for GU. There is a html program for ACs (it counts sq number and select the proper text set for it etc)....

But in case, the open sea tests will be OK (I suppose so!!! I dont see a reason why not -just a texture is different) - I think we can make dedicated units for each side! :D
So it is up to you - but I would like to see some of your textured low poly ships(with animated missiles) inside F4.

BTW BTW this is just a note. Dont take it too serious please. Is it possible to set fixed possitions among the vehicles please? I dont think, but who knows. Imagine such a rigid formation - we could make a composite unit then! :lol: The base is a strenghten armor/tank - hull + animated turret (like my small vessel, but much bigger/stronger!), then we could place various artillery, rocket launchers to it + also add a few anti AC missiles/AAA/radars. Then we would got a "composite" battleship - the player must to blast off the radar first, then smaller missile launchers, guns etc and finish that big BOSSe's hull in the end ( F4 ARCADE - I can recall the bad stink inside the caravans for slot-machines during the 80's very well , we used to lost our week pocket-money there very fast :lol: )
OK, please don't take it too serious...but who knows.
BTW - this fake tweak may help creating a simulated amphibious landing! one coast obj as beachhead, and some (pop-up, reinforcement )landing vehicles sailing/moving to capture that beachhead obj.
Yes. But I dont want to make passable links between the two networks (sea and land). The sea road system tiles must end before the amphibious water tiles(short unpassable link). But it is doable. I did already zip/bin changes for it.
I have also some another/spacial idea for amphibious landing - but more about it later.

BTW I did even the unpassable crossroad in one test place - long bridge for GU is perpediculary intersected by sea road for fake-NU. So fake ships can sail through the bridge, but cant jump into the landbase road system. It should work I think.

Unfortunaly I was very busy in last two days (yesterday finished/printed one my RL project, today did another one ...). So I did not have single hour to test it yet.
I will post the report soon.

demer wrote:
Jeez Guy's,

B4 we go off the "MODEL DEEP END"

Can we first see if we can get the Codes to recognize these New "Naval\Ground Unit's" and allow them to move along defined paths on a defined set of sea tile's?????? I think the objective link's would not be a problem unless you are modelling an Island theater.Then again,place a few oil rigs,border's,misc objects here and there and you should be able to get them to follow.
IMHO that would be a start...........
Yes. Its already in progress. I just need some time...back to the RL work now :cry:

Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by demer928 » 2010-11-28 23:07:00

Luk wrote: demer wrote:
Jeez Guy's,

B4 we go off the "MODEL DEEP END"

Can we first see if we can get the Codes to recognize these New "Naval\Ground Unit's" and allow them to move along defined paths on a defined set of sea tile's?????? I think the objective link's would not be a problem unless you are modelling an Island theater.Then again,place a few oil rigs,border's,misc objects here and there and you should be able to get them to follow.
IMHO that would be a start...........
Yes. Its already in progress. I just need some time...back to the RL work now :cry:

Luk
Thanks............ :) I think Ya' got it !!!!!!!

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by ccc » 2010-11-29 02:26:01

ok, If you had it setup right I guess code is missing from ships for missiles to show . I can't remember does guns or radar dish rotate on ships , I see some have dof's ?
yes. the code does not support ship/visible missile on rack. BUT the code does support rotating radar (DOF5, use Longbow script)and turret DOFs (DOF 0 and 1). However these code are for Ground vehicles.. while ONE ship has many rotating radars, gun turrets and SAM launchers.. that means one ships can receive/engage ONE target at a time, and the azimuth and elevation values for all turrets/targeting radars are the same( it use model zero point 0.0.0 as original point, to calculate the azmuth/elevation angles to target, and drive all ship turret/radar DOFs).

Luk, i knew you want o make a big, movable battleship but.. without code change, we can not get individual GUs moving at Fixed formation and space. Instead.. we can have a FIXED battleship with individually working weapons = Fixed battleship model as an Objective( like a SAM site), such obj has fixed feature slots for placing SAM launchers and gun turrets. In this way, all individual weapons can work independently. Some of you may think this static battleship is no joy, well, acutally you may treat such obj as a SAM site obj parking in/near a Port!

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-29 22:07:05

Luk, i knew you want o make a big, movable battleship but.. without code change, we can not get individual GUs moving at Fixed formation and space. Instead.. we can have a FIXED battleship with individually working weapons = Fixed battleship model as an Objective( like a SAM site), such obj has fixed feature slots for placing SAM launchers and gun turrets. In this way, all individual weapons can work independently. Some of you may think this static battleship is no joy, well, acutally you may treat such obj as a SAM site obj parking in/near a Port!
Good news :). It is not so big problem, our ship would be fixed. I wanted to place SAM capable NAVALs nearby the harbours to defend them. I hoped - when placed on the "city"(fake-sea) terrain type, they will be freezed in the place (we dont need the stupid 40miles N-2-S movement I think).
When I have mentioned "some amphibious landing idea", I was thinking of a carrier(Kiev class) placed on the "fake" sea tile(so it is frezed in one place too). In the same place, there is an airborne unit(over the land tile!). So the carrier based Ka-25 helis can take the unit to invade(I have tried it today in AF - UH60/Uh1 squadron, placed in the carrier -helis can take the unit). Other heavier units could be reinforced at specific time, to start the invasion just a tile away from the carrier (Kiev clas can carry marrines as well as similar US "amphibious/heli" ships).
Now we can modify it a little to match your nice idea - but the big BOSS ship is not a SAM objective, but a modified "army base". It is capable to host a helicopter squadron, as well as the SAMs and G2G(S-S) units. You have a really pretty amphibious cruiser/carrier. I think it is a challenge to do such an objective.
I did a table today - comparison - advantage vs disadvantages - carrier vs objective for the "big boss". It is quite interresting. I will think about it tomorrow, then post my opinion (still not sure- in some cases the objective is better, but a carrier has the advantages as well).

Luk

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-30 20:47:22

I would like to inform you, fake NAVAL battles works fine in the fake sea. I have captured/recaptured objectives many times (same like on the ground). Battles among fake and true NAVALs looks great too. Also air mobile amphibious operations, launched from sea army base works fine(airborne specnaz unit placed in the sea armybase). I also did air mobile mission from a carrier, but it worked sometimes. I think it works fine, but I did not try very hard - the problem was probably caused due to multiple airborne units placed in the carrier (so I did not ordered handof to HQ command to the right unit in all cases, I think)...

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2010-11-30 21:29:31

NOTE: I looked at my amphibious carrier again.
I can not to say, airborne missions from AC carrier does not work. It worked in all cases, but I was not able to find the unit anymore :lol: (so I supposed wrongly they were not enplaned - but they were!) .
I thaught marines were killed by nearby small patrol ship unit. So I have cleaned the area. But they were lost again - no more on carrier, but neither in the beech...

But they were "transported".

Luk

EDIT: I just looked at some of my old test screenees - it is very good visible, where the problem was hidden:

I had an invicible test Su34 and fired all the weapons at fake Kirov
tweaked army base inside Kirov vehicle
(I later made a decission to use less object for this special naval objective.)
Image
Image

The bonus advantage of such a solution(inner objectives) is heavy smoke effect:
Image
Image

After the last explosion, there were some debris -and they are not exploding, but makes water splashes!
Image
It showed me, the army base is on the edge of Fake sea-tile (ground). The airborne unit placed in this tile was not concentrated inside ship (I did not tweaked PT points for them). So the particular vehicles+soldiers were scaterred around - some of them in the true water. That is why the transport was not succesfull in this case.

BTW
I precissed Naval idea later much more and made a decission - all the Unit including the frigate and larger are true NAVALs. Stealthy corvettes and smaller (including subs) are fake NAVAL units. They are not vissible all the time (recon missions needed) and are much more mobile...
BTW BTW the generic gunboat looks a little bit better now - MBT origin is not so markable at the first sight
Image
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2011-03-18 11:19:45

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab4/ ... es1024.jpg
..no comment..(just thank to ccc for some models)
I am focused on terrain work ATM

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2011-06-14 17:21:00

Generic cruise_msl weapon (I tweaked dafault AF KH22 model for this new weapon)
Image
It is one of weapons for my composite cruisers (these are mainly true NAVALs without objectives).

I use a carrier-jet as a spy drone/missile guidance module/target drone - according to loadout and skinset. (it is SLAMER tweak - generic drone)
Also the AI can handle it. No need to make a suicidal mission to hit the target (but you can drive a suicidal unarmed drone in MP as well if desired). The final intercept effiencity can be simulated via weapon used. Some must be droped just above the target (subsonic type-HDbomb), some can be launch off distance with rocket booster (Novator type- supersonic terminal phase)
It is possible to shot it down etc... (it has IR signature + datectable but reduced RCS)

in flight
Image
Image
Image
Image

smoke on (just for effect)
Image
Image
(f111A shadow :), Tornado FM this time...it is better to use sluggish B-2 FM)
Image

weapon fired:
Image
Image
various wep types during the terminal phase tested(shadow inacuracy again):
Image

Spy drones after the take off - in formation
Image

It is a part of larger naval concept (also specialized ASW weapons + dangerous subs ...etc)
Luk
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by demer928 » 2011-06-14 21:23:54

BRAVO....BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Keep at it!!!!!!!!

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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by molnibalage » 2011-06-15 09:53:41

I do not understand the post. Are you saying that you are able to create radar guided missile and the air denfense handle then as an aircraft that can be shoot down?
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2011-06-15 10:51:57

BRAVO....BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
Keep at it!!!!!!!!
demer
Thanks demer :)
I do not understand the post. Are you saying that you are able to create radar guided missile and the air denfense handle then as an aircraft that can be shoot down?
No....and yes. :)

There is the carrier-jet and the weapon carried. AD fires at weapon until it is connected to carrier. The weapons are invicible when fired in the Falcon universe I think. If the weapon is HD bomb and carrier uses low-air fighter-bomber mentality, it must pass over the target. It is almost impossible if heavy CIWS used and low hitpoints for carrier setted(but can be balanced even for this case, if stealth tweaked). But these missiles are usually sea-skimming, or have booster for terminal phase to avoid AD. So this is simulated if AM or gliding bomb is used (it can not be destroyed during the final attack, but can be shoot down by SAMs or A-A missiles before).

I did not tweak KH-22 CT enty, just used KH-22 3D model and another, previously unused wep CTs (bombs, cruise msl, "glider"). But the original KH-22 can be also used as an weapon, it has just longer "invicible range" and sharper shape + diferent control surfaces then...
Luk
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by molnibalage » 2011-06-15 18:05:19

I still do not understand what you did.
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Re: 3D model tweak - data format changes

Post by Luk » 2011-06-15 18:27:24

I still do not understand what you did.
never mind, it's just a fake - like everything :wink:

F111 (with Tornado/B-1 or B-2 FM), without RWR, gun, chaff, flares and other equipment is dropping glider bomb at the ship.
It is exactly what happened in MATRIX today... :lol:

And now, what happened for me today:

The new built Russian frigate launched a pack of cruise missiles at US destroyer group. She also sent some spy drones/decoys to overload US AD systems and make greather hit chance. Cruise missiles flied just over the waves in relatively low altitude. In the target area they sorted the targets (one ?Club? was shooted down by AD in this moment) and attacked destroyers. One ship was sunk, another was damaged. Three drones returned from mission safely and were caught from the sea nearby the ship.... the life is much more funny with some fantasy.

Luk

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