Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Terrain / Theater editing

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Phoenix711
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Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-06-28 11:05:18

After a lot of work, I've decided that the correct EYE ALT for Google Earth (without terrain selected) is 2.40 km. I decided like this, because the runway length is almost completely true from that alt. 10000 feet, is the real runway, 9800 is the OF runway. They both seem to be the same. I'll be using 2.40 after now and will correct the current city tiles, which you cannot feel the sepeed well from low altitudes.

The two ss below shows tiles worked from that height.

Here's the two ss from Aegean theater.

This is WIP. It is GE tiling of a 15x15 area near Bandirma AB. It is not included in the current release.

Image

Image

I'll include a video soon. It is a 15x15 km area WIP.
Last edited by Phoenix711 on 2009-01-14 22:53:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ccc » 2008-06-28 11:56:42

Geez .. the shots look cool! 8-)

if possible, areas like airbases should have such tiles, the rest can use generic ones.

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Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-06-28 12:04:47


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Post by Snake Man » 2008-06-29 07:54:43

So in google earth we decent to 2.4km altitude and then just screenshot the tileable images from there, is that how its done?

Or is there some more automated feature in the software to grab the screenshot without any status bars and stuff on the screen?
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Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-06-29 20:57:20

Snakeman, I'm still not sure of that 2.40 km.

BTW, every option in GE should be closed, especially TERRAIN.

Working still, I think 1.76 might be the real height. It is not so important at some point tho.

Since I'm still in search of every kind of tool that can help me (image merger, slicer, GE importer/exporter ETC), for now, I'm just doing this:

1. Print Screen from google earth (you may use a print screen software for this for not pasting every print screen after copying it)

2. Merge all these images in a one big image in Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro..

3. Expand the canvas size to multipliers of 2048 in both width and height, centered.

4. Using slicer under File/Export, slice the big image to 2048x2048 images

5. Fill the gaps left/right/over/under with appropriate generic tile parts, using paint shops or photoshops "clone copy" utility, or just copy paste etc.

6. For every 2048*2048 picture, convert to 256 color, make the last 4 colors copies to 1,2,3,4th colors (by using RGB values) and then make the last 4 colors RED (255,0,0) (For night lighting not to be an issue). Save the palette. Undo your convert (so you have a 16 mil. color image again)

8. Slice the 2048 images to 512*512 (16 images each) so you can get 16 tile parts from each image

9. For each 16 images, using the appropriate palette, convert to 256 color. Save with the appropriate format and names (HXXXX###.pcx). Discard the tiles, if all the 512x512 part is a generic tile.

Rest is standart work of creating M,L and T tiles using Runtiles.bat, adding these to .bin file and to texture.zip, then tiling the area worked.

Regards.

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Post by ccc » 2008-06-30 05:00:34

just checked the vid - nice looking tiles!! :D

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Airbase Tiles

Post by Epic » 2008-06-30 07:34:01

Pheonix
Working still, I think 1.76 might be the real height. It is not so important at some point tho.
I have been working on GE airbase tiles as well and I am using a similar process as you are. I have the eye altitude narrowed down to around 1.77. Same as you I am still trying to get it exact.
Print Screen from google earth (you may use a print screen software for this for not pasting every print screen after copying it)
Are you getting better quality images than using GE's save method? I am saving the image through GE as a jpeg and then loading all the images into Paintshop Pro X2. Then I am copying and pasting them as layers to line them all up to create a large image of the area. Then I merge the layers. Then I can use the crop tool to cut them into 512x512 tiles.

Soon I will have some questions about your palette work, I was only aware of changing the last 4 colours to white for night lighting.

Thanks,

Epic

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Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-06-30 09:09:46

If GE's save method uses compression for the jpeg, then Yes, I'm getting better results, because I don't use any compression for the jpeg. It is just what I see on the GE screen.

I'm almost sure now that the correct EYE ALT is 1.76. Checked a lot of islands, lakes etc, and that seems the right one.

BTW, the copying of the last 4 colours, is important. Because PSP, gives the last colours to the mostly used colours. If you dont copy these, then the resulting 256 color image will not look good enough.

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Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-06-30 10:21:27

Ok checked and I can say, don't use Save function from GE because it uses compression.

GE saved image 128 Kb, print screen + jpeg 598 Kb.

The difference can be seen clearly. Save the images and zoom, you'll see the effects and quality problems caused by the compression better.

Print Screen Image saved without Compression (jpg)
Image

GE saved image (jpg)
Image
Last edited by Phoenix711 on 2009-01-14 22:55:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-06-30 10:56:46

Just use print screen and psp or photoshop should automatically allow you to paste the clipboard in there. Personally I'm using GrabClipSave util which works fine.
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Tile Quality

Post by Epic » 2008-07-01 23:32:23

Pheonix

Thanks for the advice on the print screen!! I will use that.
For every 2048*2048 picture, convert to 256 color, make the last 4 colors copies to 1,2,3,4th colors (by using RGB values) and then make the last 4 colors RED (255,0,0) (For night lighting not to be an issue). Save the palette. Undo your convert (so you have a 16 mil. color image again)
Just to clarify, after you reduce colours to 256, you copy the last 4 colours into the first 4 colour slots of the palette?

What effect does using red in the night lighting slots have? Are you eliminating night lighting completely or do you still use night lighting on your tiles somehow?

Thanks,

Epic

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Post by Phoenix711 » 2008-07-01 23:57:05

When you convert to 256 color (I'm using Paint Shop Pro), the most used colors are put to last numbers.

I copy the last 4 colors to first 4 colors, to be able to use these colors when I convert for the last time to PCX.

I don't use night lighting for terrain. If I want to use lighting, I'am able to do it easily by changing one of the last 4 colors (which are noıt used) to a color that is close to ones used in the picture and put ligthing pixels in the picture. So the lighting pixels are not seen bad at day time flying.

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Snake Man » 2009-07-27 13:51:23

Is there any new developments for the google earth 2.40km altitude for screenshots taking tip?
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Tip

Post by Luk » 2009-07-27 17:40:09

I dont have experience with GE for F4 tiles. But I use GE and other GIS software very often. Wanna share one easy, but very usefull tip.

I work with 1200x800 resolution laptop screen most of time. When I want to grab some large picture (for example about 3k x 3k pixelmap), I uncheck in > desktop -> right click -> properities -> Ge force - > resolution - uncheck "hide unsupported resolution..." or something (I have Czech language windows) " ---then --> I set desired resolution, much larger then monitor- for example 3840x2400 pixels.
It saves a lot of time I wasted before - during stitching. You can scroll through 3x3 monitor area, so hide your mouse button please :)

Hope it helps. But there can be some complication in GE (perspektive distortion?). It works excellent in any 2D GIS (Google map and similar).

Luk

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-03 16:59:52

Luk,

at F4Spain (http://www.f4spain.com) we have devised a way to get photorealistic textures in a fairly quick and automated with textures 512 px (1px = 2m). We talk about extensions of up to 200 km2.

For example, Madrid and Barcelona (I have not yet included in the field volable):

Barcelona was the first thing I did and it cost me meant a lot to do with a lot of software testing.
Image

A tile 512px:
Image

Another tile 512px:
Image

But an established procedure to obtain the textures of Madrid took me less than two hours; little more than 200 textures.
Image

I created a small manual to guide and not to forget the process.

As you know I use a translator. I do not know English, which hampers the communication and that translators do not take into account the context. This is why you step manual Castilian ... if someone can translate the English did not return to post.

Without you our project would not be possible. Thanks, guys:






MANUAL PARA LA CREACIÓN DE AMPLIAS REGIONES FOTOREALISTAS
-Buscar coordenadas de latitud y longitud en grados en: http://juanreyero.com/util/latlong/


-Yahoo Satellite maps downloader 5.19
-poner coordinadas. Ojo no te pases con la extensión que te pueden banear la ip
-Descargar con zoom 3
-Combinar imágenes.


-Photoshop: En la bigmap fusionada debes redimensionar la imagen en porcentaje al 88 % con paint Shop Pro y guardar en jpg para ahorrar espacio. GUARDAR

-COMPROBAR TAMAÑO IMAGEN:NOTA: PARA CIUDADES MÁS PEQUEÑAS PUEDES TRABAJAR CON EL BIGMAP ENTERO DIRECTAMENTE SI TE LO PERMITE ABRIR EL IMAGE CUTE. pARA ESO AL ADAPTAR EL MARCO, BUSCA LA IMAGEN MÚLTIPLO DE 512 MÁS PEQUEÑA POSIBLE PERO CON UN NÚMERO PAR DE TEXTURAS EN LOS DOS EJES POR SI HUBIESE QUE PARTIRLA EN 4 TROZOS.


-Photoshop: redimensionar marco: 13312x1312(multiplo de 512): dividimos la imagen en cuatro para que Image cute la pueda gestionar. bigmap11, bigmap12 bigmap21 bigmap22
-pintar en blanco las zonas que no interesen. Lo que no formará parte de la zona interesada.
-Crear malla de 512x512 para visualizar y seleccionar
-Seleccionar 13x13 cuadrantes (dividir en cuatro supercuadrantes 13x13)-seleccionar-copiar
-Crear nuevo documento: 6656x6656 pegar. Encuadrar con zoom al máximo y guardar los cuatro
supercuadrantes6656x6656 (bimap 11,bigmap12, bigmap21 bigmap22)
-Reducir el bigmap.jpg a 2000x2000



-Paint Shop Pro:
-Tomar el bigmap2000x2000-reducir a 256 colores y exportar paleta
-importar paleta en xhtile.pcx para
"01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALETA DE LAS TEXTURAS H"

-Image Cut ver 1.5 http://www.sliceimage.com/
-Import background: Abrir el supercuadrante 6656x6656 con ImageCut
-splitter-delete all spliters
-add gridd: 13x13
-Split. Comprobar que salen las texturas de 512.
-Save (elegir carpeta donde se guardará)
-Repetir el proceso con los cuatro supercuadrantes (al abrir el nuevo no guardar el previus)


-ACDSEE:Borrar texturas en blanco. si tienes dudas con iMage cute mirar que cuadrantes hace falta borrar. mirar numeración

-renombrado masivo con ACDSEE (8 letras o números): H**XX### (la H por la textura H, siendo ** las siglas nombre de la ciudad,XX el código del supercuadrante del cual procede 11,12,21,22 y 000 la numeración, p.e.: HBC11###). Hacemos por separado los juegos que provienen de bigmap11, bigmap12 bigmap21 bigmap22

-Total image converter: convertir masiva a PCX

-Paint Shop Pro: edición de texturas de transición, costas si hay, etc.Comprobar previamente con Terrainview cual es el terreno predominante en la zona para transicionar.

-APLICAR 01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALETA DE LAS TEXTURAS H (aquí tenemos que tene el xhtile.pcx con la paleta ya importada).
runtiles.bat:

@echo off
md htiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxhtile.pcx -p -Xb512 -Yb512 %x htiles\%x

-Path maker:
- Modificar Texture.bin. Introducir sets de texturas con las nuevas texturas (16 en 16) -Editar zonas de mar, caminos, etc.


-Introducir texturas en la carpeta de terrainview-texturas (testear)

-colocar texturas del terreno en su lugar de forma manual. Terrain View

-APLICAR 02-Runtiles.v1.1CREAR RESTO DEL JUEGO de texturas. (se usa xfartiles.pcx)
runtiles.bat:

@echo off
md mtiles
md ltiles
md ttiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb256 -Yb256 %x mtiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb128 -Yb128 %x ltiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxfartile.pcx -p -Xb16 -Yb16 %x ttiles\%x
cd mtiles
ren h*.pcx m*.pcx
move m*.pcx ..
cd ../ltiles
ren h*.pcx l*.pcx
move l*.pcx ..
cd ../ttiles
ren h*.pcx t*.pcx
move t*.pcx ..
cd ..
rd mtiles
rd ltiles
rd ttiles


-Winrar: Introducir texturas en Texture.zip. (sin comprimir)

-SPTinstall: construir terreno

-Tacedit:Valorar situación aeropuertos."
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by ccc » 2009-08-04 05:23:05

wow....great.. speechless! :D

PS - do you have any automatic tool to tile these new terrain tiles?

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-06 21:07:41

Hey everybody,

Just like always I arise from underground and post a couple of messages...

I just want to point that I made photoreallitic theater once in the past, I could even maybe search for it and upload it to rapidshare so you all could test it.

For those who remember I first tried with Nevada in 2002, taking all photoreallistic textures out of Jane's USAF, the result was quite good but then it apeared the (famous for me) 4096 maximum number of tiles error, there was a maximum of 4096 tiles in texture.zip (or texture.bin)... more tiles gave as resulta bunch of weird corrupted stuff.

Incredibly the screenshots of Photoreallistic Nevada are still in photobucket, I should upload everything there because it's more realiable than my own computer ;-)

Image

Image

Image

Image

This project represented 4096 km^2 of las vegas and surrounding area, decript USAF database of images was quite easy and for getting the exact size of the tiles I just had to use a couple of simple matematical rules.

Then, one or two years later (after one of my big breaks out of falcon world) I did in a couple of evenings a "just for fun" project, it was the Spanish Canary islands, again I don't know why but the gallery is still alive (in Photobucket), for those of you that want to check the screenshots of that project you can do it here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v736/ ... ds%20test/

BTW, I tested this one on Falcon AF and it worked perfectly, at that time BMS and Falcon AF terrain system were not so different... I don't know about now.

Image

For this I used 2x2 km size (4km^2) per tile, this way I could represent 16384 km^2 with 4096 tiles, more than enough since the surface of the islands were around 8000 sq km but now the problem was that the terrain grid resolution was too low and the mountains were kind of ugly... about how to calculate this exact number for google earth I can help you since it can be done with a few calculus.

All the imagery for the canary islands was taken out of FSPLANET CANARY ISLANDS for flight simulator (http://www.fsplanet.com/mainstore8.htm) ... FS2004 and so on imagery database is hell out of simple, its based on quadtree of deep 15 and you can even made a tool for getting the Lat/Lon of each corner of the tile (and put them all together).

If you are planning to do a photoreallistic terrain I highly recommend to use FSPLANET's sceneries for FS, all the terrain is already worked in gamma, contrast and so and the results will be really nice.

A little bit later the 4096 problem was supposed to be fixed by BaldEagle although, from what I know, nobody has still tested it.

Around the end of 2006 I made my own simple flight simulator, I used FSPLANET scenery of Valencia community (http://www.fsplanet.com/mainstore14.htm) and I have a document explaining everything of the project (even how to get image data out of FS, BTW, the document is in spanish), even the source code (although the data is 4GB) if anybody wants it, I'm open source guy ;-)

Here are a couple shots of this project:

Image

Image

Image

I just want to point out that doing a photoreallistic theater on Falcon is hell out of difficult because its terrain engine (i don't know any changes in Falcon's terrain engine in the last years).

Even if you can sort out the 4096 max tiles error and do all the tiles for a terrain with 100000 sq km (that's 100000 tiles) you will have a HUGE problem setting path data, water data, packs, etc, etc and worst of all is that you won't know if it will work at last (because falcon engine has lots of secrets).

About performance in Falcon with Nevada I remember it runned quite good on BMS 1.03 ( or something from the middle ages or around the dinosaurious) with a Voodoo3 at 20-60FPS in Tactical Engagement. Now it should be ok.

I made the falcon photoreallistic theaters with an auto cropping/tiling tool and it was really fast (after configuring the files needed) 30 seconds more or less. Configuring the files was about one hour. I don't know where the hell I have the source code but I can search for it or even I can remake it, it was quite easy.

Next step was gonna be to make a auto path maker out of ArcGIS data, but I never reach that point... I'm lazzzzy

Well, this is all I can contribute, I just wanted to give my 2 cents.

Best regards for everybody,

Tomás --- AKA Com_GP

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-07 10:20:07

Great work, ComGp.... Uffff :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


- Make a 100% photorealistic terrain is virtually impossible, in fact, ComGp. We agree on this point. We have also studied this posibildiad. We are preparing 1024 px photorealistic textures. Well, if the ground is 100% photorealistic have the following: 128seccionesx128x16x16texturas = more than 4 million new textures ... 4x1000000 Texture texture = x 1mega by more than 4 terabytes in just texture.zip textures with H, if we add texture L, T and M as do calculations (well come to the Tb 6, good quality ).... : shock: If the textures were 256 as we texture.zip be a little more than 2Terabyte (and quality horrible) ... ok ... divide between the two because the seas are not correct ... The data are still not encouraging. Let us note that the theater is intended to average user and not a super-mega-gamers with 10 hard drives in RAID-art ... : shock:. Recall that the architecture does not support zip over 4 gb (http://www.winrar.es/soporte/manual/HELPLimitations): THE LIMIT IS THE TEXTURE.ZIP At least for a theater of 128 sections. For a small well in 32 sections and sea, could be quite viable.

Another reason is that it may use to place CATE textures automatically manual.4x1000000 textures ... all :shock: :?

Another reason is that the address data of all roads and rivers ... at least the most important should be placed in the Texture.bin.....

..............................


What we propose is:

Replace-texture texture.zip by the photorealistic textures. It would be like a pack Hi-res (but with all text. Photorealistic) ... A plus or minus 1 per mega texture, it is a texture.zip about 2 gigs, once completed. CATE automatically corrected quickly, and we all quadrants. The project is perfectly feasible. And the result amazing. : D

The beauty of our proposal is that after these games textures (once adjusted) could be used at any stage ... I mean ... Any theater could become photorealistic with little effort.

This included completely photorealistic small areas: major cities, major airports, military areas of interest - cultural-historical ...

What is your opinion, Comgp?
A little bit later the 4096 problem was supposed to be fixed by BaldEagle although, from what I know, nobody has still tested it.
We will include new cities and points of interest until we overcome this limitation. We have the tools BaldEagle. Maybe we are the first to test it.
I have a document explaining everything of the project (even how to get image data out of FS, BTW, the document is in spanish),
The manual explains how to do adjust the map projection of the FS special dem2terrain??
I could spend this manual, please ...
I don't know where the hell I have the source code but I can search for it or even I can remake it, it was quite easy

Does this tool has a limit to the size of the image to cut? (Pe: image does not work well with cute pictures of over 10.000px x10.000 px). Can you reach it me?

I suppose you are referring to a tool type CATE, that merely placing the textures that you cut with another program, such as when writing with a typewriter (from left to right and from top to bottom), or as a defragmenter. ..

Ideally have two main tools:

-cut and rename it automatically to a textured image
-place in the place (kind CATE)
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Snake Man » 2009-08-07 12:03:06

Com_gp wrote:even the source code (although the data is 4GB) if anybody wants it, I'm open source guy
I would of course be interested of it. Please send it over and I'll keep it safe at PMC theater HQ :)
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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-07 12:45:04

THE LIMIT IS THE TEXTURE.ZIP
And not only the size... The number of entries:

"The original ZIP format had a 4GiB limit on various things (uncompressed size of a file, compressed size of a file and total size of the archive), as well as a limit of 65535 entries in a zip archive".... Source wiki
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Snake Man » 2009-08-07 13:05:33

But... doesn't Falcon 4 also read the texture\ directory if texture.zip is not found, or does it read it anyways.

Could someone test this please on AF/OF and RV?
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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-07 20:28:08

Joe Labrada wrote: Replace-texture texture.zip by the photorealistic textures. It would be like a pack Hi-res (but with all text. Photorealistic) ... A plus or minus 1 per mega texture, it is a texture.zip about 2 gigs, once completed. CATE automatically corrected quickly, and we all quadrants. The project is perfectly feasible. And the result amazing. : D

The beauty of our proposal is that after these games textures (once adjusted) could be used at any stage ... I mean ... Any theater could become photorealistic with little effort.

This included completely photorealistic small areas: major cities, major airports, military areas of interest - cultural-historical ...

What is your opinion, Comgp?
Of course it is perfectly possible, but hard to make and get a good result. The problem about making a theater with pseudo photoreallistic textures is that it's more an artist work than a cropping/autotiling tool.

There was a long time ago another guy who though about remaking terrain tiles based on photoreallistic data. He was (or is) Ranger822.

First I think you should choose all the possible terrain types, make many (16-32 or more) templates of each terrain type that matches each other in all tile-sides, making the templates is REALLY hard because you have to make them so they don't look like repeating (you made really good job with the desert template I've seen in other thread), there are PhotoShop plugins to check this repetition stuff... and good tutorials too (http://www.pixelpoke.com/Tutorial%20One ... orial.html as a fast google search example).

Then, once you have the templates, with an auto-tile-creator (a new tool that should be similar to OTP) it would be easy to create the transitions... but this I think is the weakest point in Falcon's terrain engine, even with Thomas "tom2" Wälti tiles you can even notice the mosaic look specially in wood to farms and coasts (water to ground) transitions... I think this simply SUCKS in Falcon.

The only solution for this is defining a new transition system instead of the 16 tiles one defined by original Falcon... this was first proposed by maddogmcewan, the guy of MIAs Angolan Theater... but I think they never made it from what I know...

This system would be using 32 (or even 64) tiles per transition between terrains, the results I think would be MUCH MUCH MUCH better. I've made a fast conceptual example image of what I mean.

Image

To achieve this objective of making the transition tiles of course they would be made with an auto creating tool similar to OTP, like I said before, then, once it has been done all the needed transitions (it's important to think a lot about making the right transitions, counting three way transitions, and things that right now I don't know)

Then with another auto tiling program similar to CATE it would be possible to autotile with this new transition system and then, after getting the new-auto-tiled L2 and 02 files apply special photoreallistic areas like you said military airbases, cultural places and so on.

I think after this (a little bit tedious) work you would get the best playable ever terrain for Falcon... as always this is just the way I think, I don't mean you should do it like this. Just my 2c.
Joe Labrada wrote: The manual explains how to do adjust the map projection of the FS special dem2terrain??
I could spend this manual, please ...
More or less it explains it... it's in Spanish so I think you must be able to understand it, so send me a PM with your email address and I will send it to you.
Joe Labrada wrote:
Does this tool has a limit to the size of the image to cut? (Pe: image does not work well with cute pictures of over 10.000px x10.000 px). Can you reach it me?
Yeah, sure, only I have to find it..., even it seems that long time ago I send it to maddogmcewan since I've found this post at Frugals http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/show ... stcount=49 ... even he attached the email I sent him... (he should know that's illegal ;-) personal data leaking ... ) I will search on my email sent folder to see if I still have it there and send it to you.

And I don't remember the exact size that it supported but it was something HUGE... as big as you could get in your RAM memory... anyways, it was possible to set several smaller files and the proggie knew how to put them all together.

Joe Labrada wrote:
I suppose you are referring to a tool type CATE, that merely placing the textures that you cut with another program, such as when writing with a typewriter (from left to right and from top to bottom), or as a defragmenter. ..

Ideally have two main tools:

-cut and rename it automatically to a textured image
-place in the place (kind CATE)
You are perfectly right, they were two tools, once first for cutting the images and creating all the tiles and then another one for autotiling the theater with a special rule.
Snake Man wrote: I would of course be interested of it. Please send it over and I'll keep it safe at PMC theater HQ :)
I will upload it somewhere next week since I have more upload bandwidth at work than at home, if not I can always send you a DVD by ordinary mail.

Joe Labrada wrote:
THE LIMIT IS THE TEXTURE.ZIP
Still if 65000 files is the maximum is enough to make a 256x256km theater... (if the theater has no water) or 512x128km (would be 512x512 but 3/4 of the theater would be water, one coastal or island theater like hawaii) but anyways... I think it's hardly possible to make a FULL photoreallistic theater (But not IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!)

Cheers to everybody,

Tomás

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-07 20:50:59

Snakeman wrote:
But... doesn't Falcon 4 also read the texture\ directory if texture.zip is not found, or does it read it anyways.

Could someone test this please on AF/OF and RV?
AF reads texture.zip.There is no alternative, for now. We know they are working in Lead Pursuit... A world map type Flight simulator???? Hopefully :shock: :shock:

And in FF, RV and OF, in fact, when using the simulator reads the DDS textures. It's not necessay the texture.zip, fartiles.raw. The problem arises in its creation. There are two pitfalls:

A / In the process of creating textures DDS season switcher is used, which requires the texture.zip and fartiles.raw.

B / The fartiles.raw is created with the sptinstal. And Sptinstall also need to read the texture.zip also.


It should be adapting these two programs so that they could get a textures folder directly and not texture.zip file.

If I had to do a theater with 100% photorealistic textures DDS opttaría hold the half the pcx.

Examples of fotoralistas theaters (only if not used planteable the texture.zip (4gb limit and65,535 entries):

-A 128x128-theater sections > 4194304 textures DDS 1024 px (1m-1px) (513kb) = 2 x 2 TB (DDS textures evening-N) = 4TB + 1 / 3 of 4TB (some other games textures M, L, T) = more or less rounded = 5TB. We estimate that 2 / 3 parts of the ground are water> TOTAL = 3TB

-A 128x128-theater sections textures DDS 512 px (2m-1px) (KLB 129) TOTAL = 333gBapproximately

-A 128x128-theater sections with DDS textures of 256x256 px (4m-1px) (33kb) TOTAL = 122GB.

-A 128x128-theater sections textures DDS 128x128 px (8m-1px) (9kb) TOTAL = 33 GB

-A 64x64-theater sections with DDS textures of 1024px TOTAL = 448GB

-A 64x64-theater sections with DDS textures of 512px TOTAL = 120 GB

-A 64x64-theater sections with DDS textures of 256px TOTAL = 30 GB

-A 64x64-theater sections with DDS textures of 128px TOTAL = 8 GB

Are estimates. Takes up a lot. More acceptable size, the 8 GB, resulting in a theater with 64 px textures with a resolution of 8m-1px. if we want to embellish it in some areas the highest resolution size easily be doubled (how we are going to us). As will Flight Simulator to occupy as little as large photorealistic scenes?


Given these figures F4Spain decide to replace all the textures into texture.zip in photorealistic textures of 1024 px. Such as:

Before
Image


Now

Image
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-07 21:10:58

nd good tutorials too (http://www.pixelpoke.com/Tutorial%20One ... orial.html as a fast google search example).
good tutorial for Photoshop. Thank you.
... but this I think is the weakest point in Falcon's terrain engine, even with Thomas "tom2" Wälti tiles you can even notice the mosaic look specially in wood to farms and coasts (water to ground) transitions... I think this simply SUCKS in Falcon.
Transitions are a very sensitive issue. I completely agree. Be very careful.


Actually, the proposed transitions based on 32 or 64 is very good. Hard work.

ComGP, I sent you a MP
I think it's hardly possible to make a FULL photoreallistic theater (But not IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!)
Indeed, nothing is impossible, dear friend.
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Polak » 2009-08-08 00:27:10

There is a lots of NEW and INTERESTING concepts and information floating around about F4 terrain. This is REALLY a think tank of F4 terrain.
"Photo real" terrain is a holy grail for such an immortal simulations as Falcon4 , but current storage and displaying capabilities are preventing from "IT" being a reality --- at least as of yet. The biggest trick right now is to "marry" photo real into the tiled terrain. It can be accomplished but only in minimal size of the photo real swath which should not exceed 16 tiles. I have accomplished it here:
Image
Anything larger perhaps may be GOOD in the midst of the terrain , but not @ the transitions. I have to make this point that I am still reading your most interesting posts and processing interesting information with most interest and attention. Let us continue this "think tank".

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Polak » 2009-08-08 04:14:19

Instead of "bursting anyone's bubble" in respect to photo real terrain in F4 let me contribute with the link to a tool which may help to harvest those large satellite photos @ Google Earth or MS Virtual Earth . This little gem program is called FSEarth Tiles and can be found here :
http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/read. ... 634&t=4634
Image
Play with it and see ho handy it is. There are perhaps others too, Google Earth map downloaders. Could you share?

Seriously ... photo real terrain is definitely in the future mods of all older simulations( as the hardware develops it becomes easier and more feasible to accommodate those Terra bytes of pixels). Same with newly developed simulations (if there are still any of them yet :? ). All of them should be expected to be furnished with GE or MSVE access ...or this is maybe and precisely this is the reason they are not anymore in development :( .

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-08 08:05:09

Polak wrote: "Photo real" terrain is a holy grail for such an immortal simulations as Falcon4 , but current storage and displaying capabilities are preventing from "IT" being a reality --- at least as of yet
You are mostly right but... as I said yesterday a photoreallistic terrain is hardly doneable, but not imposible, but it is important to remark that size of the theater SHOULD be smaller than 128 segment theaters as you are accostumed... for example 16 segment is perfectly doneable, it is 256x256km and 65536 tiles maximum (if there is not a single sq km of water), perfectly supported by texture.zip and Falcon engine if it really supports more than 4096 tiles as it has been said. A good example for making this would be Nevada and surrounding areas.

Even it would be possible to make a 32x32 segment photoreallistic terrain if it's coastal theater and 3/4 of the theater are water, for example Israel theater or taiwan or hawaii..., I think all of them are interesting theaters one problem is getting the imagery data.

For getting the imagery data it is posible to do it with FS2004 addons or any other flight sim that uses photoreallistic data, maybe google earth or even that tool that you just posted to get the data out of "earth service", only we would have to check the quality of sat data in the region of interest.
Polak wrote:The biggest trick right now is to "marry" photo real into the tiled terrain. It can be accomplished but only in minimal size of the photo real swath which should not exceed 16 tiles. I have accomplished it here:
Image
Anything larger perhaps may be GOOD in the midst of the terrain , but not @ the transitions. I have to make this point that I am still reading your most interesting posts and processing interesting information with most interest and attention. Let us continue this "think tank".
This image looks good, but even so you can notice the road is repeating... it happens the same with terrain transitions, this is why I propossed to define a new transition tile system (also for roads).

Another important thing is the way to make terrain templates, as I said yesterday I would make 32-64 terrain templates for EACH terrain type, each one of them matching with each other in the sides, so then tiling with a CATE similar program with some random functions the terrain shouln't look so repeating. Another improvement would be to make fixed 2x2, 4x4 and 8x8 tiles templates so they could be used where possible. I mean instead of making all 1x1 tile for the terrain type making bigger ones representing 2x2, 4x4 or 8x8km (at same resolution) and then cropping them, they should always be tiled together (4x4 or whatever) where they fit and the result would be much better. I don't know if you will get this point, it's tricky to explain.

It is important to remark that contrast/colour/brightness shouldn't be really different between one terrain type and all that could be adyacent to it, if not the transition will be really noticeable by human eye...

One example:

Image

But all of this that we have been talking this couple of days is HELL OUT OF TIME CONSUMMING..., and some of us doesn't have much free time... I just apport my ideas to see what you think.

The reason why it's a lot of time consumming is because it's more an artist work than anyother thing, and it's hard to make good artistic tiles... but even so there is a bunch of data that could be made automaticly like for example transitions and tiling.
Polak wrote: Seriously ... photo real terrain is definitely in the future mods of all older simulations
I totally agree and I think Falcon shouldn't be less than the rest of older flight simulations.
Polak wrote:Same with newly developed simulations (if there are still any of them yet :? ). All of them should be expected to be furnished with GE or MSVE access ...or this is maybe and precisely this is the reason they are not anymore in development :( .
I don't think it's the main reason, I work for the last two years developing comercial simulators for port cranes, construcion crane tower, ships and so on and developing one of this "simple" simulators is hell out of expensive...

Falcon costed around 5 million $ on 1994-1998 if I remember correctly and for sure it has produced a bunch of benefits, but even its company (Microprose) was sold a little bit later...

For game companies it's much profitable to make a shot them up for Xbox or similar than a ultra expensive and high complex flight simulator like falcon.

Cheers,

Tomás

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-08 11:01:48

Polak wrote:Instead of "bursting anyone's bubble" in respect to photo real terrain in F4 let me contribute with the link to a tool which may help to harvest those large satellite photos @ Google Earth or MS Virtual Earth . This little gem program is called FSEarth Tiles and can be found here :
http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/read. ... 634&t=4634
Image
Play with it and see ho handy it is. There are perhaps others too, Google Earth map downloaders. Could you share?

I've played around with it and I just can say it's great, only problem is that google seems to be not supported anymore because google guy (who are quite smart) have noticed about people downloading their data and they have protected the service.

It works with yimg and virtualearth but both of them are worthless for photorrealistic terrain, maybe in the US but not in the rest of the world...

Do you have any FSEarthMasks.ini that works with google?

Cheers,

Tomás

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Polak » 2009-08-08 11:11:22

this is why I proposed to define a new transition tile system (also for roads).
There is so much interesting stuff that I will take a later time in the weekend to study all what you guys wrote. However , immediately this new initiative of introducing new system of transitions (equally applicable to terrain , coast roads and rivers) pops out and REALLY stirs some interest. Is it really possible to do that? That would be the best modification of Falcon4 terrain engine - for sure. No more those swirly lines of roads and rivers and costs. That would REALLY looking better I am sure.
What is involved and how this can be accomplished?? I am talking CATE or other placing smart proggy - not making the tiles itself (they are not so complex to make them and I gladly could procure an example for test purpose).

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Polak » 2009-08-08 11:20:19

I've played around with it and I just can say it's great, only problem is that google seems to be not supported anymore because google guy (who are quite smart) have noticed about people downloading their data and they have protected the service.

It works with yimg and virtualearth but both of them are worthless for photorrealistic terrain, maybe in the US but not in the rest of the world...

Do you have any FSEarthMasks.ini that works with google?
VE and others are worthless - I concur. I think Google Earth is working fine with FSEarth , however there was something I also noticed about the quality of an output. So I have researched this further, found something else and made some "adjustments" to it .... now all quality is available. Glad you mentioned it.

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-08 11:30:19

Polak wrote: VE and others are worthless - I concur. I think Google Earth is working fine with FSEarth , however there was something I also noticed about the quality of an output. So I have researched this further, found something else and made some "adjustments" to it .... now all quality is available. Glad you mentioned it.
And... could you share FSEarthMasks.ini that has all quality aviable?

It would be of great help... I still can't make it work... only VE and YIMG... but they are not even close to the quality I can see in the google maps (in firefox).

Thanks,

Tomás

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Com_gp » 2009-08-08 11:41:29

Com_gp wrote: And... could you share FSEarthMasks.ini that has all quality aviable?
Hi, Fixed here, not needed anymore... it was all about changing number of google maps interchange image API version. Now is 39 instead of 36.

Cheers,

Tomás

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by toro » 2009-08-08 21:01:06

Gracias ´joe labrada´ por poner en español las instrucciones, prometo ayudar con la creacion de los terrenos, fuerte abrazo.

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Snake Man » 2009-08-08 22:17:15

toro: this is English forum, write English.

Also everyone else, this topic is about google earth tile making altitude, the generic discussion about creating photo realistic terrains is just barely fitting here (the altitude where to grab screenshots of google earth). Lets stick to the topic and perhaps open another one for the photo terrain creation.

Thanks.
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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by molnibalage » 2009-08-09 15:37:16

Ok, guys. This is too long and complicated me. :(

Can you answer to me in short? Can GE tiles use for Falcon and what are the limitations?
Image
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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-18 14:10:35

What are the GE tiles?
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by molnibalage » 2009-08-18 14:24:52

GE = Goggle Earth
Image
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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Joe Labrada » 2009-08-19 12:06:40

Here:


Legal Issues: Use of images
Print
This article explains that:

You can use Google Earth imagery for personal use, but cannot sell it to others.

We're flattered to hear that you're further incorporating Google Earth into your online world. You can personally use an image from the application (for example on your website, on a blog or in a word document) as long as you preserve the copyrights and attributions including the Google logo attribution. However, you cannot sell these to others, provide them as part of a service, or use them in a commercial product such as a book or TV show without first getting a rights clearance from Google.

If you require these commercial rights, please visit Google's permissions guidelines. You can then submit your application through our online request form.

Please note that we'll only be able to respond to permission requests submitted through the above form.
Cordialmente,

Image

NOTE: Apologies my English. I use Google Translator

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Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Iceburg » 2010-02-22 22:47:54

Joe Labrada wrote: MANUAL PARA LA CREACIÓN DE AMPLIAS REGIONES FOTOREALISTAS
-Buscar coordenadas de latitud y longitud en grados en: http://juanreyero.com/util/latlong/


-Yahoo Satellite maps downloader 5.19
-poner coordinadas. Ojo no te pases con la extensión que te pueden banear la ip
-Descargar con zoom 3
-Combinar imágenes.


-Photoshop: En la bigmap fusionada debes redimensionar la imagen en porcentaje al 88 % con paint Shop Pro y guardar en jpg para ahorrar espacio. GUARDAR

-COMPROBAR TAMAÑO IMAGEN:NOTA: PARA CIUDADES MÁS PEQUEÑAS PUEDES TRABAJAR CON EL BIGMAP ENTERO DIRECTAMENTE SI TE LO PERMITE ABRIR EL IMAGE CUTE. pARA ESO AL ADAPTAR EL MARCO, BUSCA LA IMAGEN MÚLTIPLO DE 512 MÁS PEQUEÑA POSIBLE PERO CON UN NÚMERO PAR DE TEXTURAS EN LOS DOS EJES POR SI HUBIESE QUE PARTIRLA EN 4 TROZOS.


-Photoshop: redimensionar marco: 13312x1312(multiplo de 512): dividimos la imagen en cuatro para que Image cute la pueda gestionar. bigmap11, bigmap12 bigmap21 bigmap22
-pintar en blanco las zonas que no interesen. Lo que no formará parte de la zona interesada.
-Crear malla de 512x512 para visualizar y seleccionar
-Seleccionar 13x13 cuadrantes (dividir en cuatro supercuadrantes 13x13)-seleccionar-copiar
-Crear nuevo documento: 6656x6656 pegar. Encuadrar con zoom al máximo y guardar los cuatro
supercuadrantes6656x6656 (bimap 11,bigmap12, bigmap21 bigmap22)
-Reducir el bigmap.jpg a 2000x2000



-Paint Shop Pro:
-Tomar el bigmap2000x2000-reducir a 256 colores y exportar paleta
-importar paleta en xhtile.pcx para
"01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALETA DE LAS TEXTURAS H"

-Image Cut ver 1.5 http://www.sliceimage.com/
-Import background: Abrir el supercuadrante 6656x6656 con ImageCut
-splitter-delete all spliters
-add gridd: 13x13
-Split. Comprobar que salen las texturas de 512.
-Save (elegir carpeta donde se guardará)
-Repetir el proceso con los cuatro supercuadrantes (al abrir el nuevo no guardar el previus)


-ACDSEE:Borrar texturas en blanco. si tienes dudas con iMage cute mirar que cuadrantes hace falta borrar. mirar numeración

-renombrado masivo con ACDSEE (8 letras o números): H**XX### (la H por la textura H, siendo ** las siglas nombre de la ciudad,XX el código del supercuadrante del cual procede 11,12,21,22 y 000 la numeración, p.e.: HBC11###). Hacemos por separado los juegos que provienen de bigmap11, bigmap12 bigmap21 bigmap22

-Total image converter: convertir masiva a PCX

-Paint Shop Pro: edición de texturas de transición, costas si hay, etc.Comprobar previamente con Terrainview cual es el terreno predominante en la zona para transicionar.

-APLICAR 01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALETA DE LAS TEXTURAS H (aquí tenemos que tene el xhtile.pcx con la paleta ya importada).
runtiles.bat:

@echo off
md htiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxhtile.pcx -p -Xb512 -Yb512 %x htiles\%x

-Path maker:
- Modificar Texture.bin. Introducir sets de texturas con las nuevas texturas (16 en 16) -Editar zonas de mar, caminos, etc.


-Introducir texturas en la carpeta de terrainview-texturas (testear)

-colocar texturas del terreno en su lugar de forma manual. Terrain View

-APLICAR 02-Runtiles.v1.1CREAR RESTO DEL JUEGO de texturas. (se usa xfartiles.pcx)
runtiles.bat:

@echo off
md mtiles
md ltiles
md ttiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb256 -Yb256 %x mtiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb128 -Yb128 %x ltiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxfartile.pcx -p -Xb16 -Yb16 %x ttiles\%x
cd mtiles
ren h*.pcx m*.pcx
move m*.pcx ..
cd ../ltiles
ren h*.pcx l*.pcx
move l*.pcx ..
cd ../ttiles
ren h*.pcx t*.pcx
move t*.pcx ..
cd ..
rd mtiles
rd ltiles
rd ttiles


-Winrar: Introducir texturas en Texture.zip. (sin comprimir)

-SPTinstall: construir terreno

-Tacedit:Valorar situación aeropuertos."
Translated by Nomis of the 72nd VFW
MANUAL FOR THE CREATION OF AMPLE PHOTOREALISTIC REGIONS

- look for coordinates of latitude and length in degrees in: http://juanreyero.com/util/latlong/

- Yahoo Satellite maps to downloader 5.19
- put coordinates.

- Download with zoom lens 3

- Combine images.

- Photoshop: In bigmap fused(?) you must resize the image in percentage to 88% with paint Shop Pro and keep in jpg to save space. KEEP

- VERIFY SIZE IMAGE: NOTE: FOR SMALLER CITIES YOU CAN WORK DIRECTLY WITH THE WHOLE BIGMAP IF IT´S ALLOWED TO YOU TO OPEN IT WITH IMAGE CUTE. TO DO THAT WHEN ADAPTING the FRAME, LOOK FOR the SMALLER POSSIBLE IMAGE WHICH IS A MULTIPLE OF 512 BUT WITH an EVEN NUMBER OF TEXTURES IN BOTH AXES IN CASE YOU WANT TO DIVIDE IT IN 4 PIECES.

- Photoshop: resize frame: 13312x1312 (multiple of 512): we divide the image in four so that image cute can manage it: bigmap11, bigmap12 bigmap21 bigmap22 - paint white the zones that do not interest.

- create enmeshes of 512x512 to visualize and to select

- select 13x13 quadrants (divide in four 13x13 superquadrants) -select and copy

- create new document: 6656x6656. fit with maximum zoom and keep the four superquadrantes 6656x6656 (bimap 11, bigmap12, bigmap21 bigmap22)

- reduce bigmap.jpg to 2000x2000

- Paint Shop Pro:

- take bigmap2000x2000 - reduce to 256 colors export pallete

- Import pallete in xhtile.pcx to "01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALLETE OF the H TEXTURES";

Image Cut Ver1.5: http://www.sliceimage.com/

- Import background: Open the superquadrant 6656x6656 with ImageCut

- splitter: delete all spliters

- add gridd: 13x13

- Split. Verify that they leave the textures 512.

- Save (choose folder where you´ll save it)

- Repeat the process with the four superquadrants (when you open the new one do not to save the previous one)

- ACDSEE: erase blank textures. if you´re doubt, check with iMage cute which quadrants are left to erase. Check numeration.

- multi-rename with ACDSEE (8 letters or numbers): H ** XX### (the H for the texture H, being ** the abbreviated names of the city, XX the code of the superquadrant from which it came (11,12,21,22) and 000 the numeration, EP: HBC11###). We match the filenames according to the bigmap they came from.

- Total image to converter: massive conversion to PCX

- Paint Shop Pro: edition of transition textures, coasts if any, etc. verify with Terrainview what is the predominant terrain in the transictioning zone.

- APPLY 01-Runtiles.v1.1 PALLETE OF TEXTURES H (we need to have xhtile.pcx with the Pallete already imported). runtiles.bat:

@echo off
Md htiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxhtile.pcx -p -Xb512 -Yb 512 %x htiles\%x

- Path maker:

- modify Texture.bin: Insert sets of textures with the newly created textures (16 in 16)
- Edit sea, paths, etc.
- Insert textures in the folder of terrainview-textures
- replace land textures manually.

Terrain View

APPLY 02-Runtiles.v1.1BUILD REST OF the GAME of textures. (xfartiles.pcx is used) runtiles.bat:

@echo off
md mtiles
md ltiles
md ttiles
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb256 -Yb256 %x mtiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy ---f -p -Xb128 -Yb128 %x ltiles\%x
for %x in (h*.pcx) do alchemy -fxfartile.pcx -p -Xb16 -Yb16 %x ttiles\%x
cd mtiles
ren h*.pcx m*.pcx
move m*.pcx ..
cd ../ltiles
ren h*.pcx l*.pcx
move l*.pcx ..
cd ../ttiles
ren h*.pcx t*.pcx
move t*.pcx ..
cd ..
rd mtiles
rd ltiles
rd ttiles

-Winrar: Insert textures into Texture.zip. (without compression)

-SPTinstall: build terrain

-Tacedit: Validate airport situation(?)."
http://www.72ndvfw.org Find me on Skype Iceburg84

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Sherlock
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Joined: 2006-05-24 22:01:01
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Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Magic Number is: 2.40 km ?

Post by Sherlock » 2010-02-22 23:17:53

Very nice. Thanks to Nomis at the 72nd to taking the time to translate the original. Also thank you chuckl for posting the translation.
Sherlock
Victurous te Saluto

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