Synching up airbases/airstrips in Iran based on ODS theater

Iran theater

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Synching up airbases/airstrips in Iran based on ODS theater

Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-18 03:08:48

Hey all,
Just thought I would let you know I am now synching up the airbase and airstrips in the save0.cam for Iran to match those (at least on the western half of the Iran theater) of the ODS theater. I figure that since Red Dog and Snake Man spent so much time getting the airbases/airstrips correct for ODS that I shouldn't redo that work or change it.

For the eastern half of the theater I'll do the research to get the closest airbase layout as possible to real life (limited, of course, by what is in the AF database).

EDIT: Quick question---Should I be doing this in the te_new.tac instead or does it matter since I can export the objectives and reimport into tac or cam later?

On a related note, I've been looking at the layout of the airbases for the Iran theater and have found some "clumps" where IMO there are just too many airbases in a small region. I am thinking it would make life easier as far as tiling, fixing airbase layout on tiles / orientation, etc., if we had fewer airbases/airstrips. Here is a graphic I made that has the candidate areas circled in red where I thought there were just too many airbases/airstrips in the area:

Image

Snake Man, what would you think about "skinnying" down the number of airbases in these areas?
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-04-18 04:09:33

This is really Red Dogs area of expertise, he did such a great job on ODS, Europe and Afghanistan. We should ask him if wants to do Iran as well. I've seen him recently on frugals, perhaps you can private message him on there?

If he dont want to do them, then you're free to take upon the task.
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-18 06:51:30

Snake Man wrote:This is really Red Dogs area of expertise, he did such a great job on ODS, Europe and Afghanistan. We should ask him if wants to do Iran as well. I've seen him recently on frugals, perhaps you can private message him on there?

If he dont want to do them, then you're free to take upon the task.
I'll PM him at Frugals but I have no idea how often he stops by Frugals so I don't have any idea how long it will be before he replies.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-18 08:38:07

I'll PM him at Frugals but I have no idea how often he stops by Frugals so I don't have any idea how long it will be before he replies.
Everyday :D Got your PM this morning Sherlock :)

Here's the catch, I'm fully busy trying to convert old stations.dat file to make them coherent with ILS and Tower stations with OF
That's my priority at the moment and I'm working on the ODS stations file.

It will be a while before I'm ready to work on Iran so I guess it would be great if someone made the initial research to see which airbases really need to be implemented and which need to be deleted.
Once the list has been reduced I can start working on getting the correct radionav data for those selected airbases

If I can, I'd send my take on airbase work:

There are way too many airbases automatically generated in terrain initially. I found out during my past work that all civvies, military, abandonned military and even the smallest airstrip to land an ultralight on are generated.
In Europe or ODS, I deleted almost 300-400 airports each.
So please decrease the number drastically. We would just need all major civil airports and military airbases and a few airstrips.

I had a quick look on the Iran OOB on scramble:

Code: Select all

Airbase structure
The IRIAF Airbase structure consists of a number of Tactical Air Bases which are numbered. 
1st Tactical Air Base , Tehran Mehrabad Int'l (OIII) 
2nd Tactical Air Base , Tabriz (OITT) (aka Janbaz and Shahid Bakeri) 
3rd Tactical Air Base , Nosheh (OIHH) (aka Hamadan) 
4th Tactical Air Base , Vahdati (OIAD) (aka Dezful) 
5th Tactical Air Base , Omidiyeh (OIAJ) 
6th Tactical Air Base , Bushehr (OIBB) 
7th Tactical Air Base , Shiraz Shahid Dastghaib Int'l (OISS) 
8th Tactical Air Base , Esfahan/Shahid Beheshti Int'l (OIFM) 
9th Tactical Air Base , Bandar Abbas Int'l (OIKB) 
10th Tactical Air Base , Chah Bahar (OIZC) 
13th Tactical Air Base, Zahedan (OIZH) 
14th Tactical Air Base, Mashhad (OIMM) 
Unknown airbase assignments are: 
Tehran-Ghale-Morghi (OIIG) 
Shahid Ashrafi Esfahani(aka Bakhtaran and Kermanshah) (OICC) 
12th? Tactical Air Base, Tehran-Doshan/Tappeh (OIID) 
12th? Tactical Air Base, Masjed Suleyman (OIAI) (aka Shahid Asyaee) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Aghajari (OIAG) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Kerman (OIKK) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Mahabad (OI??) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Ahwaz (OIAW) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Khorramshahr (OI??) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Khark Island (OIBQ) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Nou Shahr (OINN) (Noshahr) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Abamusa Island (OIBA) 
??th Tactical Air Base, Badr (OIFP) (aka Sepah Air Base) 
See, that's about 25 airports and IMHO more than enough. We might need to add a few civvies (although most military shares runway with civilian airport) and a few airstrips as well.
Those above we can probably get runway orientation, runway elevation, etc etc then radionavigation data on like Tacan or VORDME or VOR or NDB frequencies and range, tower frequencies and ILS freqs?
Although I doubt we will find a lot of tacan or VorDme but probably more NDB which is a problem since it's not really implemented in F4
With that information we can make the iran terrain airbases closer to the reality by aligning the airbases with the airbases type we have available in F4 and assign radionavigation element by working on the stations.dat file

Here's an image of the airbase coverage in Iran: (also from Scramble)
Image

For instance, Bandar abbas is a 03/21 Right/left runway
Closest we have in F4 would be a 03/21 single runway or a 05/23 L/R double runway (from memory)
Runway lenght irl is 12008 and 11341 feet but that's not important to us at the moment
Tacan is 078X and there's even a VorDme offset the field on 119x
Tower is 118.1
Field elev is 22feet
I know there's at least one ILS there but don't know the frequency yet.

Finally, I would suggest we check the airbases already implemented in ODS and afghanistan if they are redundant on IRAN and make sure we use the same settings.
I just checked ODS and afghanistan and we already have quite a lot of airbases redundant. So I would like to keep those, and see what are the ones we need to add.
Last edited by Red Dog on 2007-04-18 08:58:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-18 08:42:59

So to sum it up:

1. Have a list of all airbases currently in Iran
2. Slash dramatically into that list to have a final 50 - 60 airport max and make sure we keep the airbases already in ODS and afghanistan
3. Send me that final list
4. Adding the selected airbases to my airbase list spreadsheet which is the backbone of all my airbase work for F4 terrain
5. Collect runway info
6. Compromise the F4 airport in Iran with real runway orientation (Airport ID)
7. Collect radio-nav data
8. Create the stations;dat file

So if you want to start on 1, 2 and 3 that would be great.
Then we can work together to get to point 8.

What do you say?

Where can I find a map of the current Iran theather border?
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-18 15:18:26

Red Dog wrote:So to sum it up:

1. Have a list of all airbases currently in Iran
2. Slash dramatically into that list to have a final 50 - 60 airport max and make sure we keep the airbases already in ODS and afghanistan
3. Send me that final list
4. Adding the selected airbases to my airbase list spreadsheet which is the backbone of all my airbase work for F4 terrain
5. Collect runway info
6. Compromise the F4 airport in Iran with real runway orientation (Airport ID)
7. Collect radio-nav data
8. Create the stations;dat file

So if you want to start on 1, 2 and 3 that would be great.
Then we can work together to get to point 8.

What do you say?

Where can I find a map of the current Iran theather border?
Wow...that was really quick! Very, very nice to have you back here at PMC helping out Red Dog!

As for a map of the Iran theater with borders here is a link to a couple of bmp graphics that SM put up. One of them has the green borders and both are for use in TacEdit. Will these work? http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/downloads/Iran_map-01.rar

As to working on 1-3, you got it! I want to roll this theater forward as fast as possible because since I got "bitten" by the Falcon "bug" it has been my dream to be able to fly the Iranian Theater of Operations.

You covered pretty well in your previous post the country of Iran as far as applicable airbases we should look at. But what about the other countries? Keep in mind that I am thinking we stick with the ODS standard on airbases/airstrips (unless you think we should delete some of those--then we will have to do the same in the ODS theater) meaning if they are currently in ODS AND they are situated in the Iran Theater of Operations (ITO) then we keep them. The same question applies to Afghanistan Theater of Operations (ATO). Finally, what about countries like Turkmenistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakistan and Pakistan?

I don't have the ATO theater installed so I don't have any idea how far north-south-east and west that theater extends or what airbases are included with it. Could someone please email me or post a link to the Afghanistan Theater airbases and airstrips that are currently in the theater? The CSV file from TacEdit would be great. Email addy is lod_viper1 at yahoo dot com.

The one reference standard that immediately comes to my mind that we might use for help in determining which airbases/airstrips to delete and which to keep is the rating that comes in the TDF files from the DCW data for the bases. Here is the rating scale:

Code Definition

1 = Active civil
2 = Active civil and military
3 = Active military
4 = Other
5 = Airport location added from ONC source when not available in the DAFIF

Would this rating be helpful Red Dog?
Last edited by Sherlock on 2007-04-18 16:41:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-18 16:36:04

Starting status update:

Current total number of airbases/airstrips in Iran theater: 329
Current total number of airbases in Iran theater: 286
Current total number of airstrips in Iran theater: 43

By Team:
U.S. = 0
Coalition = 99
Afghanistan = 2
CIS = 141
Pakistan = 4
Iran = 77
Turkey = 5
(Source was the cam file)

The breakout according to the code definition (scale 1-5) I presented above is as follows:

Code: Select all

Code      Qty of Bases
1              17
2              22
3              33
4              161
5              105
338 Total (after deleting blank entries for airport names).

(source was the TDF airport file from DEM2Terrain).

----------------------------------------------------
Edit: Update2
Comparing ODS to Iran there are 118 airbases/airstrips in Iran that are also in ODS. To obtain this list I exported the objectives from the Desstorm1 campaign folder, save0.cam file, sorted by type copied off all airbase/airstrips then compared this data in Excel to the similar Iran data. Here are the bases that are shared between the two:

Airbases common between Iran and ODS:
ABQAIQ
ABU ALI
AGHA JARI
AHMED AL JABER AIR BASE
AHWAZ
AL AHSA
AL FATHAH
AL HASA
AL ISKANDARIYAH NEW
AL KHARJ EAST
AL MUFRASH
AL SAHRA
AL TAJI
AL TAQADDUM
Ali Al Salem AB
AR RUMAYLAH SOUTHWEST
BADR AFB
BAGHDAD MUTHENNA
BAHRAIN INTL
BAHREGAN
BALAD SOUTHEAST
BAQUBAH
BASHIQAH
BASRAH INTL
BEHBEHAN NORTHWEST
BISHEH KOLA
BUSHEHR
CHELEKEN EAST
DASHTE NAZ
DEZFUL
DEZFUL HIGHWAY STRIP
DHAHRAN INTL
DO LENGEH
DOHA INTL
DOSHAN TAPPEH
ERBIL NORTHWEST
ESFAHAN INTL
GACH SARAN
GASSIM
GHALAYSAN NEW
GHALE MORGHI
GHAZVIN
GORREH
HABBANIYAH
HAFAR AL ATK
HAFR AL BATIN
HAMADAN
HAMADAN MIL
ILAM
JEBEL DHANA
K 1
K 2
KARAJ
KHARK ISLAND
KHORRAM ABBAD
KHURAIS
KING ABDUL AZIZ MIL ACADEMY
KING ABDUL AZIZ NAVAL BASE
KING FAHD INTL
KING KHALID INTL
KING KHALID MILITARY CITY
KIRKUK
KUT AL HAYY EAST
KUWAIT INTL
LAMERD
LENKORAN
MANZARIYEH
MASJED SOLEIMAN
MEHRABAD INTL
MOSUL
NAIN MILITARY
NEBIT DAG NORTHWEST
NOSHAHR
OMIDIYEH
PETROLINE 3
PETROLINE 6
Prince Sultan Airbase
QALAT SALIH
QALAT SIKAR
QASR TALL MIHL
QAYYARAH SOUTH
QAYYARAH WEST
RAFHA
RAMSAR
RAS MISHAB
RAS TANURA
RASHEED
RASHT
RIYADH MIL
SADDAM INTL
SAFWAN
SALUM
SAMARRA EAST
SANANDAJ
SARVESTAN
SEMNAN
SEMNAN NEW
SHAIBAH
SHAIKH ISA
SHAYKA MAZHAR
SHIRAZ INTL
STEPANARKET
SUBAKHU
TABRIZ
TAL ASHTAH NEW
TALLIL
TANAJIB
THUMAMAH
TIKRIT EAST
TIKRIT SOUTH
TUZ KHURMATU
UBAYDAH BIN AL JARRAH
UROMIYEH
VAN
YANGADZHA
YEREVAN-PARAKAR
ZARGAN

Airbases not in ODS that are in Iran currently:
(211 airbases/airstrips in the following list)

ABANDONED KARS
ABONDONED PUSHKINO EAST
ABU DHABI INTL
ABU MUSA ISLAND
AGDZHABEDI
AL DHAFRA
AL UDAYLIYAH
AL WARIAH SE HWY LDG STRIP
AMARA NEW
AN NUMANIYAH
ARADZHI
AS SALMAN NORTH
ASHAGY SURRA
ASHKHABAD NORTHWEST
ASHKHABAD/BEZMEIN
ASIM AL MUHAMMAD
BAKHTARAN
BAKU-BINA
BAKU-KALA
BAKU-LOKBATAN
BAKU-ZABRAT
BANDAR ABBASS INTL
BANDAR LENGEH
BANDAR MASHUR
BARDA SOUTHEAST
BASHIR NORTH
BASHUR
BASRAH MAQAL
BASTAK
BATEEN
BERD
BIRJAND
BIRUNI
BUKHARA
BUNYADLY
BYGYR
BYURGYUTLI SOUTHEAST
CHAH BAHAR
CHARDZHOU WEST
CHARYSHLY 2
CHARYSHLY 4
CHAUDER
DALLYAR
DARAB
DARGAN ATA
DARRAHI
DARVAZA
DOKSHIN
DUBAI INTL
DZHEBEL
DZHINGILDY
ESENMENGLI
ESFAHAN EAST
FARAB NORTH
FASA
FAYZABAD
FIZULI EAST
FUJAIRAH
GELDY BAY
GIZHOUVAN WEST
GONABAD
GWADAR
GYAURS
GYAURS AGRI
HERAT
IMENI STALINA
IMISHLY
IMISHLY EAST
IRANSHAHR
ISPAS
JABAL AL FAHDAU
JAHROM
JALIBAH SOUTHEAST
JUBAIL
KAGAN SOUTH
KALAI MOR
KALALEH
KALININO
KAMO
KARACHALA
KARAKUL
KARS SOUTHEAST
KARSHI SOUTH
KASAN SOUTHWEST
KAUSY
KAZAKLY BAURDAK
KAZI MAGOMED
KELYATA
KENIMEKH
KERMAN
KHACHMAS
KHALACH
KHALADZH
KHANKA
KHATAB
KHATYRCHI NORTHWEST
KHAUZ KHAN
KHAUZ-KHAN NORTH
KHODZHAMBAS
KHODZHAYLI
KIROVABAD NORTH
KIROVSK IMENI LENINA
KISH ISLAND
KIZYL ATREK NORTHWEST
KIZYL ATREK WEST
KIZYL-ARVAT NORTHWEST
KIZYL-AYAK
KODZHAR SOUTHWEST
KOSH RABAT
KP 718
KUBA KHALILLI
KUVACHA
KYRVKHLY
KYURDAMIR CIVIL
KYURDAMIR NORTH
KYURDAMIR NORTHEAST
KYZYLAGADZH
LAR
LAVAN ISLAND
MARAGHEH HIGHWAY STRIP
MARY NORTH
MARY NORTHEAST
MASHHAD
MAYMANAK
MENI KALININA/AMU DARYA
METS MAZRA
MINHAD AB
MOLLAKEND
MORGUNOVSKIY
MOSHKARA
MOYAK/OLUM
MUGANLY
MUGLAN
MURAV YEVKO
MURUNTAU SOUTHEAST
NARIMANOVKA SOUTH
NARIMANOVKA SOUTH
NARIMANOVKA SOUTHWEST
NASOSNYY
NAVOI
NEJEF NEW
NISHAN
OKTEMBER HIGHWAY STRIP
OMAR-KHODZHA
PANJGUR
PARSABAD
PASNI
PIRSAGAT
PITNYAK
PRISHIB
PUSHKINO
PUSHKINO SOUTH
PUSHKINO SOUTHWEST
RAS AL KHAIMAH INTL
RAS SAFANIYA
RIYADH SOUTH
SABZEVAR
SABZEVARAN
SAKAR-CHAGA
SALYANY
SALYANY SOUTHWEST
SANGACHALY
SARAB
SARAKHS SOUTH
SARVAN
SEEB INTL
SERAKHS
SERNYY ZAVOD
SHAHABAD HIGHWAY STRIP
SHAHROKHI HIGHWAY STRIP
SHAHRUD
SHARJAH INTL
SHAYKH HANTUSH HWY STRIP
SHINDAND
SHINUYAR
SIRRI ISLAND
SISIAN
SITAL CHAY
SIYAZY/PA YAN
SOGA
SOTSIALIZM SOUTHEAST
STEPANAVAN
SUGRALY SOUTHWEST
TALIMARDZHAN
TANRYKULULAR
TATVAN
TAWI AWIR
TAZAKEND NORTH
TEDZHEN
TEDZHEN SOUTHEAST
TEHRAN WEST
TURBAT
TURTKUL
UGTAH HIGHWAY STRIP
UMM QASR
VASHT
YANGI ARYN
YANGIVAB
YANGIVAB NORTHWEST
YAS ISLAND
YAZD
YERDEN
YEREVAN-YEGVARD
YEVLAKH
YUKARY-AMAN
YUKSEKOVA HWY STRIP
ZABOL
ZAHEDAN INTL
ZAKATALY
ZHDANOVSK
ZHDANOVSK EAST
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-18 22:33:55

@Red Dog: I found this UN map that is pretty recent and appears to be very thorough on the airports of the middle east. The following is a small version (probably can't make out any detail) but I'm including a link to a download in case you haven't seen this before:

Image

Download Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?5wm3lzmdtmm
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-19 08:26:12

Rod,

Thanks for the Iran map with border, that's perfect.
The kneemaps of ODS and afghanistan are great to check which airbases we need and which terrain gap we have.

Here's a quick superposition of the ODS and afghan kneempas on the Iran images you posted.

Image

That obviously tell us where the gaps are.

1. We should keep all ODS and Afghan airbases (same type, same radionav info) that are on that image and fill in the gaps :
Since I did the airbase work on those two terreain, I know exactly which airbases in thoses countries we need for Iran.

We just need to fill the gaps:
Part of Turkey (missing from ODS)
Part of Azerbaidjan (missing from ODS)
Part of Armenia (missing from ODS)
Part of Turkmenistan (missing from ODS and Afghan)
Part of UAE (missing from ODS)
Part of OMAN (Not implemented in ODS nor afghan)
and of cource the center part of Iran (missing from ODS and Afghan)

I certainly already made the research on those airbases located in the gaps because when I did the work on the ODS and afghan, I mostly worked country by country and then deleted the airbases that I would not need because out of the borders.
So it would be a simple matters to merge all the info from my airbase_list spreadsheet into a new IRAN tab...

You should get something from me very soon...

But basically I think we should leave the area already implemented in ODS and Afghanistan the same as they were and concentrate only on adding airbases in the gaps.
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-04-19 10:31:12

Red Dog, nice to see you :)

I just love that image you posted, heh so cool. You should post that to frugals like "We build the world, theater by theater..." :D

Anyways, yes we will keep ODS and Afghanistan airbases as they are and just coordinate / update Iran with the existing data and the gap.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-19 10:47:44

lol, I love it too :) It's interesting to note how I had to angle the theater towards Iran to make the borders approx the same. probably that damn F4 projection problem :(

Here's a list of the merged airbases from ODS and afghanistan that will go into IRAN
They are set by country and all we have left to do is add the airbases in the uncovered area on the chart above - that should be pretty easy

Kuwait
complete
AHMED AL JABER AB
ALI AL SALEM AB
KUWAIT INTL

Saudi Arabia
complete
ABQAIQ
ABU ALI
AL AHSA
AL HASA
AL KHARJ EAST
GASSIM
HAFAR AL ATK
HAFR AL BATIN
King Abdul Aziz Naval Base
KHURAIS
DHARHAN INTL
KING ABDULAZIZ MIL ACADEMY
KING FAHD INTL
KING KHALID INTL
KING KHALID MILITARY CITY
PETROLINE 3
PETROLINE 6
PRINCE SULTAN AIRBASE
RAFHA
RAS MISHAB
RAS TANURA
RIYADH MIL AIR BASE
TANAJIB
THUMAMAH

IRAQ
complete
AL FATHAH
AL ISKANDARIYAH NEW
AL MUFRASH
AL SAHRA
AL TAJI
AL TAQADDUM
AR RUMAYLAH SOUTHWEST
BAQUBAH
BAGHDAD MUTHENNA
BALAD SOUTHEAST
BASHIQAH
BASRAH INTL
ERBIL NORTHWEST
GHALAYSAN NEW
HABBANIYAH
K1
K2
KIRKUK
KUT AL HAYY EAST
MOSUL
QALAT SALIH
QALAT SIKAR
QASR TALL MIHL
QAYYARAH SOUTH
QAYYARAH WEST
RASHEED
SADDAM INTL
SAFWAN
SALUM
SAMARRA EAST
SHAIBAH
SHAYKA MAZHAR
SUBAKHU
TAL ASHTAH NEW
TALLIL
TIKRIT EAST
TIKRIT SOUTH
TUZ KHURMATU
UBAYDAH BIN AL JARRAH

IRAN
Initial list from ODS merger with Afghan - needs center of the country added
AGHAJARI
AHWAZ
BADR AB
BAHREGAN
BAKHTARAN
BANDAR MASHUR
BEHBEHAN NORTHWEST
Birjand
BISHE KOLA
BUSHEHR
Chah Bahar Konarak
DARRAHI
DASHTE NAZ
DEZFUL HIGHWAY STRIP
DEZFUL
DO LENGEH
DOSHAN TAPPEH
ESFAHAN EAST = BADR AIRBASE
ESFAHAN INTL
GACHSARAN
GHALE MORGHI
GHAZVIN
GORREH
HAMADAN MIL
HAMADAN
ILAM
Iranshahr
KARAJ
KHARK ISLAND
KHORAM ABAD
LAMERD
MANZARIYEH
MARAGHEH HIGHWAY STRIP
MASJED SOLEIMAN
MEHRABAD INTL
NAIN MILITARY
NOSHAHR
OMIDIYEH
PARSSABAD
RAMSAR
RASHT
Sabzevar = Jiroft
SANANDAJ
SARAB
Sarakhs
SARVESTAN
SEMNAN NEW
SEMNAN
SHAHABAD HIGHWAY STRIP
SHAHROKHI HIGHWAY STRIP
SHIRAZ INTL
TABRIZ
TEHRAN WEST
UROMIYEH
ZARGAN
Zabol
Zahedan

TURKEY
current list from ODS - miss the Northen Turkey for Iran
BORANKOY
DIYARBAKIR NORTHWEST
HINS
KONYA WEST
MALATYA = ERHAC
MUS WEST
TATVAN
TEMELLI
VAN
YUKSEKOVA HWY STRIP

Azerbaijan
List taken from ODS - miss Northern airbasesLENKORAN
STEPANARKET


Barhain
Complete from ODS
BAHRAIN INTL
SHAIKH ISA

United Arab Emirates
List taken from ODS needs to be completed
DAS ISLAND
JEBEL DHANA
AL DHAFRA
ABU DHABI INTL
DUBAI INTL

Turkmenistan
List Taken from ODS and Afghan, miss centre and north part
Ashkhabad
CHELEKEN EAST
NEBIT DAG
YANGADZHA
Chardzhev
Kalai Mor
Kizyl Arvat
Mary North
Mary Northeast
Pitnyak
Serakhs

Qatar
Complete from ODS
DOHA

Armenia
List Taken from ODS, miss northern part
YEREVAN

Oman
To be worked on
MASIRAH ISLAND
THUMRAIT
SEEB

Afghanistan
Should be complete - taken from ATO
Herat
Shindand

Pakistan
complete
Gwadar
Turbat Intl

Uzbekistan
complete
Bukhara
Kagan South
Karshi South
Maymanak
Navoi
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-19 10:53:25

Here's a link to the updated airbase_list file
Open the xls, check the tabs and go to the last one called IRAN

It's the same list as above but with already all the info we need:
http://www.candyparty.com/ST/SP/Airbase_list.zip
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-19 11:40:47

Sherlock,

How about we take that list I just posted and work country by country until we have all the countries missing airbases added.
basically, we would just need to work on:
Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaidjan, Georgia (above Armenia), Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan (avobe turkmenistan), Iran, UAE and OMAN
Airbases common between Iran and ODS:
It should be the same as the list I posted above, except my list take also the afghanistan airbases that needs to be in Iran as well.
Airbases not in ODS that are in Iran currently:
(211 airbases/airstrips in the following list)
Thos probably are part of the ones I orginaly deleted from ODS when reducing the airbase list
The criteria was too small, too unknown, no available published data , ...
but I'm including a link to a download in case you haven't seen this before:
Re middle east map
I'm interested in having the large version but that damn link is bogus :) Servers are always occupied ;)
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-19 15:19:44

Red Dog wrote:Sherlock,

***SNIP***
but I'm including a link to a download in case you haven't seen this before:
Re middle east map
I'm interested in having the large version but that damn link is bogus :) Servers are always occupied ;)
Sorry about that. I didn't know their servers were all down. Here try this filefront link instead:

http://dodownload.filefront.com/7283665 ... e78c7e335d
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-19 16:20:45

Super Rod, Got the file, It's splendid
Exactly what we need for this discussion :D
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-20 04:31:29

Red Dog wrote:Super Rod, Got the file, It's splendid
Exactly what we need for this discussion :D
@RD: Got a quick question for you related to your spreadsheet. I was looking at it tonight (wow! what a thorough job!) and I see that you have vertical text on each worksheet that LARGE and is running vertically on the page. For instance, on the IRAN sheet it has a large ODS turned, running vertically up the page in BLUE letters.

How did you creat that? :) and how can I change it to put it to "IRAN" for the Iran page?

thanks!
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-20 07:55:30

Rod,

I have no idea what you're talking about ?
Have a pix?
probably a difference of excell version - But I don't have that large ODS text running vertically

Spreadsheet update, UAE and OMAN are completed
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-20 15:08:42

Red Dog wrote: Rod,

I have no idea what you're talking about ?
Have a pix?
probably a difference of excell version - But I don't have that large ODS text running vertically

Spreadsheet update, UAE and OMAN are completed
This is what I mean (this is the Iran page):

Image

Circled in red. BTW, some of the worksheets don't have the large blue lettering and some of them the lettering is there but runs left to right (normal; but still large). Funny thing is that you don't see those letters when you are zoomed into normal zoom level, i.e., 100%. YOu have to zoom out to 25% to see the lettering.

Red Dog wrote:Spreadsheet update, UAE and OMAN are completed
Link? The old link still has the older version apparently (just looked at date/time info on internal file).
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-20 16:21:15

No idea how I did this - but I started this file some 6 or 7 years ago ... :) Best guess is that it's related somehow to the tab name.
I just created a new tab for Iran and got the ODS blue text to disappears but no new one for iran got in.
So I guess it's something not supported anymore by the modern versions of Excell :)

The new version is up now - same link
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-24 15:39:01

All right, I'm filling the gaps in Iran;
Iran should now be almost complete as far as airbase selection is concerned

basically, the airbases in Iran already in ODS and afghanistan remain unchanged.
Here are the added airbases covering the gaps in the middle

BANDAR ABBAS INTL
BANDAR ABBAS NAS
KALALEH (Strip)
KISH ISLAND
KERMAN
METAR KALATEH (strip)
MASHHAD INTL
RAFSANJAN
SHAHROUD
SIRJAN
TABAS
YAZD SHAHID
JIROFT (SABZEVARAN)
BAM
LAR
BANDAR LENGEH
JASK
DAYRESTAN





I have one problem although not really important:

Do lengeh was confused with Bandar Lengeh when I did ODS, as a consequence, do lengeh has the info of Bandar Lengeh. that was not a problem with ODS since Bandar Lengeh is out of the theater. Now that we need both we need to switch them so they are realistic. Do lengeh will thus be different in IRAN than in ODS

here's the updated Airbase list_spreadsheet
http://www.candyparty.com/ST/SP/Airbase_list.zip
Don't mind the colour for the moment, it's for my own tracking


Here's the above map with added airports in IRAN, OMAN and UAE in RED

Image
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-24 18:00:27

Oliver,
A couple of questions, if I may...

I noticed your list in your post above doesn't appear to address airstrips/Highway strips but I believe you spreadsheet does. I take it then that the spreadsheet is the definitive source for what needs to be put in as the airbase objectives?

In my first post in this thread I identified several areas on the Iran map where I thought we might want to look hard at removing some airbases. What are your thoughts on that?
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-24 19:26:39

Rod,
I noticed your list in your post above doesn't appear to address airstrips/Highway strips but I believe you spreadsheet does.
I try to minimize the airstrips because honestly they aren't really necessary. But the spreadsheet has the airstrips (as the list above - I just didn't mentionned them)
My criteria for an airstrip is usually a runway less than 5000 feet and no real published information
I take it then that the spreadsheet is the definitive source for what needs to be put in as the airbase objectives?
That's the idea, yes.
In my first post in this thread I identified several areas on the Iran map where I thought we might want to look hard at removing some airbases. What are your thoughts on that?
That's exactly what I am doing - but on a general point of view with all the theater and taking into consideration what was already done in ODS and afghanistan.
If you look at the map I just posted above, you have all the airbases&airstrips that will be implemented in Iran (except that I still need to work on armenia, turkmenistan and Azerbaidjan (but I don't expect a lot of additiion there)
So that should have your identified area cleared.

Once the IRAN tab of the spreadsheet is complete, we can compare it to the tacedit generated list and start deleting all airbases/airstrip names not in my airbase list and we will end of with the image above.

Hope that's clear enough - I always have been working like that to decrease the number of auto generated airbase in a new theater, but that's just me :)
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-24 19:34:40

Oliver,
thanks. I understand more clearly now. :)

I will be glad to make the edits to the airbases in TacEdit based on your spreadsheet. I will start with the old ODS and Afghan theater bases since they are "concrete" (I also noted the exception of Bandar Lengeh and will use the info in the spreadsheet).
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-24 19:40:15

Wait, till the spreadsheet is complete, should be soon now.
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-24 19:42:40

Red Dog wrote:Wait, till the spreadsheet is complete, should be soon now.
Ok. :)
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-04-25 05:11:57

Red Dog wrote:Do lengeh was confused with Bandar Lengeh when I did ODS, as a consequence, do lengeh has the info of Bandar Lengeh. that was not a problem with ODS since Bandar Lengeh is out of the theater. Now that we need both we need to switch them so they are realistic. Do lengeh will thus be different in IRAN than in ODS
Of course we should fix this in next ODS release, so please forward me the information needed for the change.
Sherlock wrote:I will be glad to make the edits to the airbases in TacEdit based on your spreadsheet. I will start with the old ODS and Afghan theater bases since they are "concrete"
Red Dog has done them by himself (wheter in real tacedit or just text editor in CSV file), I've always just got the updated CSV from him.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-25 08:42:54

f course we should fix this in next ODS release, so please forward me the information needed for the change.
Good catch Snake, I will forward the info ASAP, as soon as I got the list finalized and once I am sure there won't be any change.

There will be also some changes in Afghanistan as I added some airbases in Iran that were apparently missiong from afghanistan originally (BAM, JIROFT, MASSHAD, ...
But again, once the stuff is finalized, you'll get the clear instructions
Red Dog has done them by himself (wheter in real tacedit or just text editor in CSV file), I've always just got the updated CSV from him.
Yes I always sent back the modified CSV list so it corresponds to the airbase list spreadsheet. I do it because I need the ID and ID2 to create the stations.dat file.

The work is done in three steps once the airbase list is finalized.
1. Delete any airbase from the CSV not in the airbase list
2. Get the ID and ID2 from the CSV to the airbase list (currently we still have objective ID from ODS and afghanistan + blanks (the one added)
3. Make sure the CSV has the correct type (airbase/airstrip) and the correct subtype (airbase type)

It's been so long that I just don't remember where to find the objective ID and ID2 in the CSV :P
3.
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-25 15:09:33

Red Dog wrote:The work is done in three steps once the airbase list is finalized.
1. Delete any airbase from the CSV not in the airbase list
2. Get the ID and ID2 from the CSV to the airbase list (currently we still have objective ID from ODS and afghanistan + blanks (the one added)
3. Make sure the CSV has the correct type (airbase/airstrip) and the correct subtype (airbase type)

It's been so long that I just don't remember where to find the objective ID and ID2 in the CSV :P
3.
Maybe I can help with getting the ID and ID2 info....

Here's an excerpt from the AF stations.dat file:

# Seoul
277 046 X 15 25 1 110.9
# Suwon
360 022 X 12 25 1 108.5
# Taegu
778 125 X 21 25 1 108.7
# Yechon
872 095 X 40 50 1 114.8
# Hoengsong
762 053 X 47 50 1 110.2
# Sokcho
1212 047 X 48 25 1 0
# Kumi
873 002 Y 32766 0 1 0
# R110
883 003 Y 49 0 1 0
# R419
867 004 Y 32766 0 1 0

Which numbers are the ID and ID2?
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-25 20:48:19

The structure of the stations.dat is as follows:

Objective ID2, Tacan channel, Tacan band, Approach Index, Tacan range, emitter type, ILS freq

that structure is different for OF
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-25 20:56:39

Red Dog wrote:The structure of the stations.dat is as follows:

Objective ID2, Tacan channel, Tacan band, Approach Index, Tacan range, emitter type, ILS freq

that structure is different for OF
So is ID equal to the TacEdit Objective "ID" and ID2 is equal to the TacEdit Objective "CAMPID" (which, btw, are nearly always the same in PMC produced theaters)?
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-26 12:22:05

I am not sure I understand, Rod...

here's the line in the CSV file
Name, Type, Subtype, ID, Objective, X, Y, Z, .....
PARSSABAD, Airbase, 11_29 Airbase, 4, 1775, 499, 1813, 0,....

Thus
Name= PARSSABAD
Type= Airbase
Subtype= 11_29 Airbase
ID = 4
Objective = 1775
X=499
Y=1813
Z=0

I just need to know if the ID2 from the stations.dat file is the ID or Objective from the CSV file

The approach index apparently starts at 1 and gets implemented through the list, so no big deal here
Tower index is Approach index value + 46
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-04-26 16:13:00

Red Dog wrote:I am not sure I understand, Rod...

here's the line in the CSV file
Name, Type, Subtype, ID, Objective, X, Y, Z, .....
PARSSABAD, Airbase, 11_29 Airbase, 4, 1775, 499, 1813, 0,....

Thus
Name= PARSSABAD
Type= Airbase
Subtype= 11_29 Airbase
ID = 4
Objective = 1775
X=499
Y=1813
Z=0

I just need to know if the ID2 from the stations.dat file is the ID or Objective from the CSV file

The approach index apparently starts at 1 and gets implemented through the list, so no big deal here
Tower index is Approach index value + 46
ID2 = CAMPID in TacEdit = XID in tacedit exported csv file

Which, BTW, in PMC theaters is usually the same as the ID. Only in the original (Microprose produced) Korean theater does the XID and the ID number tend to be different.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-04-26 16:25:11

Indeed, I was confused because i used ODS as a reference and they are different
But you're right indeed, they're the same in Afghanistan and Europe

Update:
The northern countries airport selection is complete, I'll post the updated airbase spreadhseet ASAP
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-05-06 15:09:01

Red Dog wrote:Indeed, I was confused because i used ODS as a reference and they are different
But you're right indeed, they're the same in Afghanistan and Europe

Update:
The northern countries airport selection is complete, I'll post the updated airbase spreadhseet ASAP
Oliver,
is the list complete now for all countries so I can download the latest spreadsheet and start editing the campaign file per its contained list of airbases and airstrips?

Also, should we add Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar, (southwest of Doha/Ad Dawhah) since it has become an important staging and refueling base (as well as transport aircraft) for the US in the CENTCOM area of ops? It's also the longest runway in the mid-east at 15,000 ft. length.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-05-09 10:46:53

No Rod, the list is not complete yet, i have been busy for work and had to place Iran on a back burner. Hope to be on it ASAP.

As for Al Udeid, I don't ming adding it (and in ODS as well then) but the argument of the longest rwy in the area is of no interest. All runway have the same 7000-8000ft runway lenght in F4....
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-05-09 15:11:46

If I recall which airbase youre talking about, it wasn't build in 1991 so it wont fit ODS.

We could always add it for additional campaigns, but its getting complicated then, you add the airbase, linking and then terrain tiling (possible roads etc leveling). So I'd say that ODS will stick with the existing airbase data but for this fictional/present day Iran theater we should add it.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-05-10 10:06:19

Fine with me Snake.

Rod,
there must be an error somewhere
I checked Al UDEID and it's reported to be a 12000 ft runway IRL? The only 15000ft runway in Qatar is Doha

i added Al udeid to the airbase list, but I think it's redundant. It's very close to Doha whicg already is a large airbase.
I could live without, but I don't mind adding it at your request

For the record, it's not in the original CSV file either - objective are inexistant for Al UDEID
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-05-10 16:31:47

Red Dog wrote:Fine with me Snake.

Rod,
there must be an error somewhere
I checked Al UDEID and it's reported to be a 12000 ft runway IRL? The only 15000ft runway in Qatar is Doha

i added Al udeid to the airbase list, but I think it's redundant. It's very close to Doha whicg already is a large airbase.
I could live without, but I don't mind adding it at your request

For the record, it's not in the original CSV file either - objective are inexistant for Al UDEID
Oliver,
The 15,000' length I got from globalsecurity.org. I assumed they knew what they were talking about ;) After looking it up at the airport guide I see your info is correct and they were wrong. Sorry about that! :(

However, isn't Doha Intl only civilian traffic? If so, I think we should add it to be more realistic in carrying military traffic. However, if Doha Intl DOES carry mil traffic then I agree we don't need AL UDEID.
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Post by Red Dog » 2007-05-10 16:59:16

I'll let that one for you to decide.
:?
my source says Doha is joint civil/military
http://www.worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=QA04668
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-05-10 17:30:57

Red Dog wrote:I'll let that one for you to decide.
:?
my source says Doha is joint civil/military
http://www.worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=QA04668
Ok, let's stick with just Doha Intl. No Al Udeid.
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