So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
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So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
Starting this topic to open the discussion on Theater work:
I'm assuming we are going to push ODS out the door first...
I'm working on the bug report for the airbases in ODS...should be done by the close of this weekend. Biggest problem is offset locations for the 3D airbase models versus the Airbase tiles that were laid down. Other problems include no airbase tiles under 3D models, airbase tiles laid down over existing road/river tiles so that they are truncated, intermixing of 3D models (airbase and city for example), headings on 3D model runways don't line up with airbase tiles...etc.
Do you want to redo the CATE script for putting down the airbase tiles or do you want to fix these bugs manually in TVLg?
We need lots of new tiles made in order to make this scenery much more relistic...so we need tile makers....where are we going to get them? (yeh, I know we can make some but I've never made a tile in my life!)
How are we going to address the campaigns? Here are some observations I've made on these:
- Too many blue squadrons in Persian War; they overwhelme the red side.
- Not enough engineer units on either side in Persian War
- movement problems for ground units between Saudi Arabia and Iraq in all campaigns
I'm assuming we are going to push ODS out the door first...
I'm working on the bug report for the airbases in ODS...should be done by the close of this weekend. Biggest problem is offset locations for the 3D airbase models versus the Airbase tiles that were laid down. Other problems include no airbase tiles under 3D models, airbase tiles laid down over existing road/river tiles so that they are truncated, intermixing of 3D models (airbase and city for example), headings on 3D model runways don't line up with airbase tiles...etc.
Do you want to redo the CATE script for putting down the airbase tiles or do you want to fix these bugs manually in TVLg?
We need lots of new tiles made in order to make this scenery much more relistic...so we need tile makers....where are we going to get them? (yeh, I know we can make some but I've never made a tile in my life!)
How are we going to address the campaigns? Here are some observations I've made on these:
- Too many blue squadrons in Persian War; they overwhelme the red side.
- Not enough engineer units on either side in Persian War
- movement problems for ground units between Saudi Arabia and Iraq in all campaigns
Sherlock
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I know a guy who's become pretty adept at taking Google Earth or other ortho photo shots of land and making them into tiles.
He (and I) are kinda busy with something else right now, but our time may be opening up relatively soon.
I don't think he's registered here, yet, but I've directed him to this thread. Even if we can't directly help with ODS, maybe he can share some of his expertise.
Plus, hopefully, more people will be able to get a taste of what he's doing.
He (and I) are kinda busy with something else right now, but our time may be opening up relatively soon.
I don't think he's registered here, yet, but I've directed him to this thread. Even if we can't directly help with ODS, maybe he can share some of his expertise.
Plus, hopefully, more people will be able to get a taste of what he's doing.
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Re: So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
as for this one , it remind me that i had a same problem with the "Yom Kipur War" or with the "Six Days War " Campaigns , Iraqi troops , ground units or A/C's eighter did not moved/advanced thru Israel (Iraqi units were stationed in Syria)....Sherlock wrote: - movement problems for ground units between Saudi Arabia and Iraq in all campaigns
What i did and solved this was : make sure that in the link Step ,link mode , choose 2 closest objectives of the opposite sides and draw a line between them (as in the tutorial) , now----you probably need to do that for every opposite Team , so i just draw a line between an Iraqi obj to Israeli obj , and magic ! ground units move to israel and lot of Air crafts bombing israel ----cool !
while Iraq is actually just a support team for the red side , but still need a link to israel .
what you probably got is just one link between iraq to Kuwait.....
so--- i do not know what is the status between Iraq to Saudi , i guess opposite side , but try when link , to draw a line in a link mode between 2 most close obj of these countries , i think it worth a check .
ofcourse try also to define a trigger event that will help them move towards Saudi .
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That would excellent T_Rex. I think using actual imagery from GoogleEarth would be great for the cities and airbases plus other places like SAM sites, Army Depots, etc. Him sharing his knowledge on how he does it would make it much less "painful" for all involved. Looking forward to hearing from him!T_Rex wrote:I know a guy who's become pretty adept at taking Google Earth or other ortho photo shots of land and making them into tiles.
He (and I) are kinda busy with something else right now, but our time may be opening up relatively soon.
I don't think he's registered here, yet, but I've directed him to this thread. Even if we can't directly help with ODS, maybe he can share some of his expertise.
Plus, hopefully, more people will be able to get a taste of what he's doing.
Sherlock
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Hi Ihawk...
Flown your Israel Theater in FF3 many many times....
Its without douht a superb and explosive campaign
Even now although i fly AF a lot i still have to jump into FF3 Israeli Theater when i get a chance
Superb stuff....
Cant wait for Peleds release
Should be mindblowing,
Good for you guys 8)
Flown your Israel Theater in FF3 many many times....
Its without douht a superb and explosive campaign
Even now although i fly AF a lot i still have to jump into FF3 Israeli Theater when i get a chance
Superb stuff....
Cant wait for Peleds release
Should be mindblowing,
Good for you guys 8)
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The plan is to hunt down the most seen bugs in the theaters.So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
Yes. Or "yes" in the way that what ever comes first, it might be simple art directory and texture update for Nevada or it might be the full blown new version of ODS, I don't know for sure. All is open. So far nobody has posted any bug reports besides you.I'm assuming we are going to push ODS out the door first
And I thank you for that.I'm working on the bug report for the airbases in ODS
CATE of course, who would want to do manual work. Yet the CATE config file is manual work by itself heh, but the same config can then be used by others which is great. Well at least with the texture.bin in question, but in that also I was thinking that some unified texture.bin with CATE configs would be great, why the hell would we do different bin's for different theaters if we can just CATE the work with one major kickass bin+conf file setup. The textures of course can be different but the bin itself should be the same.Do you want to redo the CATE script for putting down the airbase tiles or do you want to fix these bugs manually in TVLg?
At least I remember spending hours to build that ODS CATE config, I wouldn't want to do the same for other theaters.
Yeah, what else is new...We need lots of new tiles made in order to make this scenery much more relistic...so we need tile makers....where are we going to get them?
How? We track down any issues and try to fix themHow are we going to address the campaigns?
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Thanx, but It's not my campign... i just upgraded a little... working now on it a little more serious, since now i know some PMC stuff alsophoenix wrote:Hi Ihawk...
Flown your Israel Theater in FF3 many many times....
Its without douht a superb and explosive campaign
Even now although i fly AF a lot i still have to jump into FF3 Israeli Theater when i get a chance
Superb stuff....
Cant wait for Peleds release
Should be mindblowing,
Good for you guys 8)
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I haven't seen those tiles in their entirety. Where can I download them from so I can assess what can be used (from Qaz's tiles) and what tiles will still need to be created?Malc wrote:I was kinda hoping the Nevada tiles Qaz has supplied would fit into the ODS theater pretty nicely.Snake Man wrote:Yeah, what else is new...We need lots of new tiles made in order to make this scenery much more relistic...so we need tile makers....where are we going to get them?
Sherlock
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I was going to post yesterday but thought of letting it go and just generally replied. But now I need to ask, if the topic is...
The topic name is basically what would fit into the comeback topic, however the content is pure ODS stuff. Confusing no?
... in Falcon 4 General area, why are we talking about ODS here?So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
The topic name is basically what would fit into the comeback topic, however the content is pure ODS stuff. Confusing no?
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I emailed Snake Man the tileset during the week. Perhaps he can make them available for download? 44Mb in total, give or take.Sherlock wrote:I haven't seen those tiles in their entirety. Where can I download them from so I can assess what can be used (from Qaz's tiles) and what tiles will still need to be created?Malc wrote:I was kinda hoping the Nevada tiles Qaz has supplied would fit into the ODS theater pretty nicely.Snake Man wrote: Yeah, what else is new...
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hehe...yeh, the topic switched from general to ODS when you answered the question above.Snake Man wrote:I was going to post yesterday but thought of letting it go and just generally replied. But now I need to ask, if the topic is...
... in Falcon 4 General area, why are we talking about ODS here?So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
The topic name is basically what would fit into the comeback topic, however the content is pure ODS stuff. Confusing no?
Guess we need to move the discussion to ODS forum now!
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I was thinking that since the Iran is now out and installer(s) are proven to be working, next on the list would be to cather up all fixes so far on ODS and release it on the NSIS installer. Then from alphabetical order for not making any particular order, we would do the same cathering of fixes and release time permitting Afhanistan, Europe, Nevada and Vietnam theaters.
Whole point would be to get the new installers compatible for RedViper, OpenFalcon and Falcon 4 Allied Force out to the community as fast as possible since so much posts have been made lately "is XYZ theater available for AF" or "is there any theaters for RV?" etc.
The fixes list for the other theaters than ODS would be quite minimal, barely to justify new version, but I think in overall big picture it would be the best choice to release them.
And yeah I was thinking about the new version releases as same as the previous Taiwan, Korea128 and Iran, a developer ones hush hush here in PMC forums, then when initial test results come for all falcon versions from enough amount of users, then we would release them into the public with big news on sites & forums.
If anyone has any ideas or thoughts, please post.
Whole point would be to get the new installers compatible for RedViper, OpenFalcon and Falcon 4 Allied Force out to the community as fast as possible since so much posts have been made lately "is XYZ theater available for AF" or "is there any theaters for RV?" etc.
The fixes list for the other theaters than ODS would be quite minimal, barely to justify new version, but I think in overall big picture it would be the best choice to release them.
And yeah I was thinking about the new version releases as same as the previous Taiwan, Korea128 and Iran, a developer ones hush hush here in PMC forums, then when initial test results come for all falcon versions from enough amount of users, then we would release them into the public with big news on sites & forums.
If anyone has any ideas or thoughts, please post.
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Re: So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
Im trying to do as many of these tiles as possible, though I was familiar with the process I had never really tried to do this before on this scale.Sherlock wrote: We need lots of new tiles made in order to make this scenery much more relistic...so we need tile makers....where are we going to get them? (yeh, I know we can make some but I've never made a tile in my life!)
If its possible to get an image of the AB with the objects overlayed it would make it much easier to make proper AB tiles. I thought the korean default AB tiles used same object placement in ODS but I guess not.
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Re: So what is the plan to get this Theater show rolling?
The only way I can think of to do this is in-game using the recon feature to take overhad shots showing the 3D airbase model sitting on the tiles. Would that do what you need?Khronik wrote:If its possible to get an image of the AB with the objects overlayed it would make it much easier to make proper AB tiles. I thought the korean default AB tiles used same object placement in ODS but I guess not.
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ODS is now out. Next comes Afghanistan.
In that theater the biggest flaw is the tiles as they look quite horrible, also I recall the airbase tiling is pretty non existant. Then of course there was the after campaign crash bug.
Also there should be effort to get the RedViper, OpenFalcon and Allied Force User Interfaces done with the installer tweaks. Even as I stated on the release posts about it, I'm pretty sure its matter of time before first bug report comes in from ODS that the IA/Campmap/Flags are korean.
In that theater the biggest flaw is the tiles as they look quite horrible, also I recall the airbase tiling is pretty non existant. Then of course there was the after campaign crash bug.
Also there should be effort to get the RedViper, OpenFalcon and Allied Force User Interfaces done with the installer tweaks. Even as I stated on the release posts about it, I'm pretty sure its matter of time before first bug report comes in from ODS that the IA/Campmap/Flags are korean.
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Its now April 14th and work still continues daily (if not even 24hrs/day) the get the next theater in release order.
Release Goals
My goal is to get the line of PMC theaters into public distribution as quickly as possible, no I dont want to "rush" them, but I'm talking about dev time of days or maybe week(s) instead of months. This is just to give the users or merely a developers all the theaters to work with, its saddens me that there is no installers for these theaters at the moment (besides the obvious released ones). As said I dont want to just repack the SP4 theaters and release them, some editing or improving has to be done. This mostly comes in the form of improving the CATE conf files for terrain tiling, in which I did quantum leap progress on ODS bin (ODS/Iran), to fix / tweak the campaigns (removed the "CTD" bug after exiting game) and to build somekind of UI in them. There is lot of juggling with the old files to get them in order with the new dir structure and installer, but once done, its so enjoyable to just click the installer for RV, OF and AF versions.
At the moment I feel little bit like dragging feet with Afghanistan. For example I looked the objective linking which was incomplete, this baffled me as I remembered I already completed it, so I went and redid the linking completely which took like two days about. Then all of the sudden I discover some mystical backups which had some older campaign files, I took a look at them, you know, just for fun... and what the fuck, these are the cam files with the completed linking and Red Dog airbases. You can imagine how pissed I was, heh well stuff happens
Also as the theater L2 file is from freaking 2002 or 2003, I had to redo it with the feature data for my sanity, well of course from some strange reason the road/river tiling is not compatible anymore so I think I need to scrap the bridges and re-link the part where new bridges come. Not totally a big deal but its about one nights good work. Also as the terrain in real life is almost without rivers, who knows there might be some real life issues to consider and perhaps (gulp) leave out most if not all bridges. I have no idea about this bridge business, its easy to leave them all out or have them all in, any other compromise is alot of manual work I think. We'll see, most likely we go with the thousands of bridges normal theater choice.
NSIS Installer
We have made big leaps in the NSIS installer technology many thanks to T_Rex in that department. The next installer will have unique database capability for RV, OF and AF versions, I'm also hoping to get unique user interface for each version but I cannot say anything beyond that since I havent yet done the installer script parts, but taking consideration the DB, the UI code should be no problem.
DataBase
At the side I did the trial tests of the database editing for RV and AF, specificly on Europe for the 1985 Cold War scenarios. The db looks good, works good and NSIS installer for it works good as already stated. Afghanistan theater wont have DB edits but Europe, ODS and Vietnam will so we're all good in that area now. Hopefully we can get the OF side in order also where I opened a specific topic to ask around. At the moment editing AF and RV is doable by me, but I wanted to hand out the OF db work to someone else. Of course if anyone wants to do RV db or even point out that there is already historically loaded aircraft for our theaters, please do so.
User Interface
User Interfaces are now setup pretty ok thanks to Sherlock for making the 128 theater SCF backbone for AF. Couby did good job taking the old ODS UI for OF and hopefully he can continue the same process for other theaters. So far nobody havent come forward offering help to do RV UI which might be quite a task, Khronik had some mentioning that hes interested on it though. I did setup Afghanistan as well as Europe with the basic old UI for campaign buttons and IA/Campmap/PAK screen, it looks acceptable now and we can go with that. However there is no new fancy graphics made so far (except the Iran buttons by Sherlock) but then again, why reinvent the wheel as we have basic graphics done now. Khronik was nice enough to create all theater labels for AF so it looks very nice and unified now.
Utilities
We desperately need a new Terrain Rebuilder and normal fixing tool combined in one. The current SPTInstall is not working for AF only users (no original F4 registry entry) and LxNormalFix is too heavy on 128 theaters. Especially the sptinstall is bottle neck right now as I will not make the installer to ADD something on users windows registry, modifying is ok but adding stuff is not, that is crossing the line. Yeah someone might scratch their head that whats the big deal on modifying users registry when 99.99% of the users dont even know it happened. Well its more like a principle, I always hated in OFP scene when dummies did for small addon with an executable installer which left nasty programs menu on the win and all, I just will not go down that road.
Anyways the problem is that if you only have AF, the installer will fail but if you have original F4 installed it works just ok, also I think with 512mb ram the installer cant even complete, but not sure though and heh yeah 512meg today would be a quite strange configuration, perhaps on some laptops or something(?). The point being; all installers will now fail for AF users until fix is made. We need the new util, bad, really bad. If someone can C/C++ code, please help us!
Summary
I was bored, needed a break so I wrote this situation update
If anyone have any thoughts of the overall theater development process and so on, I'm all ears for questions/suggestions, but remember that this is not specific theater area, we only talk about "we will fix X next" not "how to do setup campaign objective 123 texture in X??" etc.
One more time, next comes Afghanistan and then Europe. From there we go in Nevada I think and finally then Vietnam which is the last big boy on the block (new tiles and database with UI needed, oh my).
After all that stuff, we rotate back to ODS I think, or what I mean is that this "goal" and theater ball rolling thing planning ends there. We'll see in what week/month we are in at that point and how good are we in terms of latest utils, installer, conf files (TCL, CATE) and how are the released theaters accepted.
Release Goals
My goal is to get the line of PMC theaters into public distribution as quickly as possible, no I dont want to "rush" them, but I'm talking about dev time of days or maybe week(s) instead of months. This is just to give the users or merely a developers all the theaters to work with, its saddens me that there is no installers for these theaters at the moment (besides the obvious released ones). As said I dont want to just repack the SP4 theaters and release them, some editing or improving has to be done. This mostly comes in the form of improving the CATE conf files for terrain tiling, in which I did quantum leap progress on ODS bin (ODS/Iran), to fix / tweak the campaigns (removed the "CTD" bug after exiting game) and to build somekind of UI in them. There is lot of juggling with the old files to get them in order with the new dir structure and installer, but once done, its so enjoyable to just click the installer for RV, OF and AF versions.
At the moment I feel little bit like dragging feet with Afghanistan. For example I looked the objective linking which was incomplete, this baffled me as I remembered I already completed it, so I went and redid the linking completely which took like two days about. Then all of the sudden I discover some mystical backups which had some older campaign files, I took a look at them, you know, just for fun... and what the fuck, these are the cam files with the completed linking and Red Dog airbases. You can imagine how pissed I was, heh well stuff happens
Also as the theater L2 file is from freaking 2002 or 2003, I had to redo it with the feature data for my sanity, well of course from some strange reason the road/river tiling is not compatible anymore so I think I need to scrap the bridges and re-link the part where new bridges come. Not totally a big deal but its about one nights good work. Also as the terrain in real life is almost without rivers, who knows there might be some real life issues to consider and perhaps (gulp) leave out most if not all bridges. I have no idea about this bridge business, its easy to leave them all out or have them all in, any other compromise is alot of manual work I think. We'll see, most likely we go with the thousands of bridges normal theater choice.
NSIS Installer
We have made big leaps in the NSIS installer technology many thanks to T_Rex in that department. The next installer will have unique database capability for RV, OF and AF versions, I'm also hoping to get unique user interface for each version but I cannot say anything beyond that since I havent yet done the installer script parts, but taking consideration the DB, the UI code should be no problem.
DataBase
At the side I did the trial tests of the database editing for RV and AF, specificly on Europe for the 1985 Cold War scenarios. The db looks good, works good and NSIS installer for it works good as already stated. Afghanistan theater wont have DB edits but Europe, ODS and Vietnam will so we're all good in that area now. Hopefully we can get the OF side in order also where I opened a specific topic to ask around. At the moment editing AF and RV is doable by me, but I wanted to hand out the OF db work to someone else. Of course if anyone wants to do RV db or even point out that there is already historically loaded aircraft for our theaters, please do so.
User Interface
User Interfaces are now setup pretty ok thanks to Sherlock for making the 128 theater SCF backbone for AF. Couby did good job taking the old ODS UI for OF and hopefully he can continue the same process for other theaters. So far nobody havent come forward offering help to do RV UI which might be quite a task, Khronik had some mentioning that hes interested on it though. I did setup Afghanistan as well as Europe with the basic old UI for campaign buttons and IA/Campmap/PAK screen, it looks acceptable now and we can go with that. However there is no new fancy graphics made so far (except the Iran buttons by Sherlock) but then again, why reinvent the wheel as we have basic graphics done now. Khronik was nice enough to create all theater labels for AF so it looks very nice and unified now.
Utilities
We desperately need a new Terrain Rebuilder and normal fixing tool combined in one. The current SPTInstall is not working for AF only users (no original F4 registry entry) and LxNormalFix is too heavy on 128 theaters. Especially the sptinstall is bottle neck right now as I will not make the installer to ADD something on users windows registry, modifying is ok but adding stuff is not, that is crossing the line. Yeah someone might scratch their head that whats the big deal on modifying users registry when 99.99% of the users dont even know it happened. Well its more like a principle, I always hated in OFP scene when dummies did for small addon with an executable installer which left nasty programs menu on the win and all, I just will not go down that road.
Anyways the problem is that if you only have AF, the installer will fail but if you have original F4 installed it works just ok, also I think with 512mb ram the installer cant even complete, but not sure though and heh yeah 512meg today would be a quite strange configuration, perhaps on some laptops or something(?). The point being; all installers will now fail for AF users until fix is made. We need the new util, bad, really bad. If someone can C/C++ code, please help us!
Summary
I was bored, needed a break so I wrote this situation update
If anyone have any thoughts of the overall theater development process and so on, I'm all ears for questions/suggestions, but remember that this is not specific theater area, we only talk about "we will fix X next" not "how to do setup campaign objective 123 texture in X??" etc.
One more time, next comes Afghanistan and then Europe. From there we go in Nevada I think and finally then Vietnam which is the last big boy on the block (new tiles and database with UI needed, oh my).
After all that stuff, we rotate back to ODS I think, or what I mean is that this "goal" and theater ball rolling thing planning ends there. We'll see in what week/month we are in at that point and how good are we in terms of latest utils, installer, conf files (TCL, CATE) and how are the released theaters accepted.
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Let's not repeat earlier mistakes.
A lot of people have interresting projects. A focus on pulling all available resources to pull theater by theater off is needed. Right now a lot of resources are focusing on a lot of different thing, but the drive I see here has been unequalled for years !!
I guess we all are tired of the verbal fighting, and we are focusing on the creative, or maybe even the resources are new. Anyway, what I see in this place is professional drives for the common thing, F4.
I suggest a priority are set to finish theater by theater, and a timeline for doing so.
I take my hats off for all you contributing guys !! A special thank to Snake Man for coming back from his sauna in the deep forests of the land of thousand lakes !
A lot of people have interresting projects. A focus on pulling all available resources to pull theater by theater off is needed. Right now a lot of resources are focusing on a lot of different thing, but the drive I see here has been unequalled for years !!
I guess we all are tired of the verbal fighting, and we are focusing on the creative, or maybe even the resources are new. Anyway, what I see in this place is professional drives for the common thing, F4.
I suggest a priority are set to finish theater by theater, and a timeline for doing so.
I take my hats off for all you contributing guys !! A special thank to Snake Man for coming back from his sauna in the deep forests of the land of thousand lakes !
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my .02c,
i like Snake man's dev approach. he provides us a basic, working installers - terrain and campaigns. Based on them, other dev have more playground, and can do their modding at their own pace.
a good example is Israeli theater first dev by Dudi.
years later Ranger and Peled decided to upgrade it - now we got a much better ITO2.
you can't expect a fully done theater mod be done in given time. just release a basic one, interest more modders, then it will be developed on its own pace.
i like Snake man's dev approach. he provides us a basic, working installers - terrain and campaigns. Based on them, other dev have more playground, and can do their modding at their own pace.
a good example is Israeli theater first dev by Dudi.
years later Ranger and Peled decided to upgrade it - now we got a much better ITO2.
you can't expect a fully done theater mod be done in given time. just release a basic one, interest more modders, then it will be developed on its own pace.
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I need to shoot this "view" down right here and now. PMC Tactical Team's EULA says clearly that our work is not to be edited without our permission. So there definitely wont be any outside development of our theaters. You can find our EULA when you click the installer (you need to accept it or cancel installation) and after install its located on Theaters\<THEATER>\eula.txt file.ccc wrote:i like Snake man's dev approach. he provides us a basic, working installers - terrain and campaigns. Based on them, other dev have more playground, and can do their modding at their own pace.
Just to remind everyone and cut all these kind of talks from spreading.
And about focusing etc, you guys take just way too dark view on things, if I'd sit here all day pulling my hair out that "uuh no theaters will get finished EVER!" then how would I have time and energy to edit any theaters?
YES we arent going to have fully working and finished theater anytime soon, for example the ATC voices, I cannot do them... and I would like to remind everyone that even in LeadPursuit's v1.0.11.4772 Falcon 4 Allied Force there is still tiling errors... so lets just ask ourselves a question "is this theater enjoyable to fly, or am I nitpicking about XYZ until I grow old?"
Okay, we're getting sidetracked here. Lets focus on this topic what theater gets released next. Thanks.
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Well,Snake Man wrote:I need to shoot this "view" down right here and now. PMC Tactical Team's EULA says clearly that our work is not to be edited without our permission. So there definitely wont be any outside development of our theaters. You can find our EULA when you click the installer (you need to accept it or cancel installation) and after install its located on Theaters\<THEATER>\eula.txt file.ccc wrote:i like Snake man's dev approach. he provides us a basic, working installers - terrain and campaigns. Based on them, other dev have more playground, and can do their modding at their own pace.
Just to remind everyone and cut all these kind of talks from spreading.
And about focusing etc, you guys take just way too dark view on things, if I'd sit here all day pulling my hair out that "uuh no theaters will get finished EVER!" then how would I have time and energy to edit any theaters?
YES we arent going to have fully working and finished theater anytime soon, for example the ATC voices, I cannot do them... and I would like to remind everyone that even in LeadPursuit's v1.0.11.4772 Falcon 4 Allied Force there is still tiling errors... so lets just ask ourselves a question "is this theater enjoyable to fly, or am I nitpicking about XYZ until I grow old?"
Okay, we're getting sidetracked here. Lets focus on this topic what theater gets released next. Thanks.
As this is about sugestions i would like to add one if i may
whatever Theater gets released next lets make sure its got at least one fully working and flyable campaign...
The UI for each Theater should be finished so it looks professional and integrates with the current version and if it takes more time than it should then so be it 8)
As much as i hate to say it the latest release of ODS to the public was just nowhere near ready and lets not forget that most falcon simmers whatever the flavour do not expect to see half missing menus and ctd or unflyable campaigns...
If Afghanistan is next out the door then lets get it right and blow the F4 world into oblivion with a professional looking theater with fully working menus and and at least one fully working campaign with fully working database of all entities that each version uses...
Releasing these theaters now is crazy as their nowhere ready but they could be fixed in time...
Fuck the installers
No1 cares how it gets on their drive as long as it works.
Tacedit experts are whats needed to really make these theaters rock in all versions (Tacedit is where the meat of this sim really exists).
BTW some really cool things on the backburner here and i commend every1 here for their great efforts
Just my 02 and not meaning to offend any1
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I have to agree with Phoenix in a round about way....
basically I would suggest that if we are going to make theaters available to the general public then they should be pretty dang close to as perfect as we can get them. Otherwise, we risk jepardizing the good PMC name with a percieved bad product. VERY FEW PEOPLE READ THE README FILE to see that it is a developer version; that's just a fact of life (I know it doesn't make it right but that is just the way it is). Hehe. it's actually probably just the Developers who read the README file!
For developer versions we are working on here there are two paths I see:
1. Post the link(s) but keep quiet about them (and hope they don't migrate to Frugals), or
2. Keep the links private in PMs so the general public doesn't learn of them.
I know that #2 goes counter to the free and open sharing/forums that SM trys his best to promote here and I agree that it would really be taking a giant step backwards to do #2 (I don't like the idea of it personally myself!).
Any other ideas? Thoughts?
basically I would suggest that if we are going to make theaters available to the general public then they should be pretty dang close to as perfect as we can get them. Otherwise, we risk jepardizing the good PMC name with a percieved bad product. VERY FEW PEOPLE READ THE README FILE to see that it is a developer version; that's just a fact of life (I know it doesn't make it right but that is just the way it is). Hehe. it's actually probably just the Developers who read the README file!
For developer versions we are working on here there are two paths I see:
1. Post the link(s) but keep quiet about them (and hope they don't migrate to Frugals), or
2. Keep the links private in PMs so the general public doesn't learn of them.
I know that #2 goes counter to the free and open sharing/forums that SM trys his best to promote here and I agree that it would really be taking a giant step backwards to do #2 (I don't like the idea of it personally myself!).
Any other ideas? Thoughts?
Sherlock
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Hi Sherlock,
Just wanted to say that i didnt mean to sound negative in my previous post but its super cool to see PMC running again and would hate to see PMC get a bad name over public confusion between what is a finished Theater and a Developers Theater...
Falcon peeps see an advertised link for a PMC Theater and think "wow"
A new finished theater and install without reading jack shit
Then they get dissapointed or upset when they see its not finished and dont understand why it got released...
It must be stipulated that these theaters are in development stage and still BETA or WIP so the casual F4 Driver knows what to expect.
That said,
i can fully understand PMC releasing ODS and others as "developing theaters" but most casual falconers wont.
Again,
Some awesome work going on here (That terrain looks fucking super ) and would be a shame to see the place get a RAW DEAL...
Better to release only finished theaters to the public and then update or patch them as needed.
God bless...
Just wanted to say that i didnt mean to sound negative in my previous post but its super cool to see PMC running again and would hate to see PMC get a bad name over public confusion between what is a finished Theater and a Developers Theater...
Falcon peeps see an advertised link for a PMC Theater and think "wow"
A new finished theater and install without reading jack shit
Then they get dissapointed or upset when they see its not finished and dont understand why it got released...
It must be stipulated that these theaters are in development stage and still BETA or WIP so the casual F4 Driver knows what to expect.
That said,
i can fully understand PMC releasing ODS and others as "developing theaters" but most casual falconers wont.
Again,
Some awesome work going on here (That terrain looks fucking super ) and would be a shame to see the place get a RAW DEAL...
Better to release only finished theaters to the public and then update or patch them as needed.
God bless...
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Afghanistan is out now, next comes Europe. I have already done good progress on it and its easy theater anyways as it doesn't have new tiles to worry about.
Also when we make progress on any theater, it "cumulates" to the next theater coming under work, for example here the UI work I did for Afghanistan was already dropped into Europe theaters configuration like 30min after Afghanistan release, now Europe's UI status is the same as Afghanistans, nice.
The goal is to have Europe in such shape that its enjoyable, ie as little CTD/critical bugs as possible and so on.
Also when we make progress on any theater, it "cumulates" to the next theater coming under work, for example here the UI work I did for Afghanistan was already dropped into Europe theaters configuration like 30min after Afghanistan release, now Europe's UI status is the same as Afghanistans, nice.
The goal is to have Europe in such shape that its enjoyable, ie as little CTD/critical bugs as possible and so on.
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Europe is now out and next comes Nevada, the small theater.
At least there is no problem with objectives/linking now with this small 64 segment theater as I got pretty much fed up with them in Europe. No database to worry about, its rather simple setup.
Soon we have all the old theaters brought to the three falcon versions
At least there is no problem with objectives/linking now with this small 64 segment theater as I got pretty much fed up with them in Europe. No database to worry about, its rather simple setup.
Soon we have all the old theaters brought to the three falcon versions
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Nevada is now out and next comes Vietnam, the great historical war theater.
Actually I havent got the slightest clue how Vietnam looks like, I have worked on these theaters one at the time to keep my sanity. For keeping that sanity I had to do Nevada release now without getting the new tiles in ("too" much work) or to wait Red Dog's airbase update. I'm planning on really kick ass on Vietnam now, time to give it the 2007 facelift and get the ball rolling to finally complete the PMC 2007 comeback theater development cycle, Vietnam is the last theater on the "product line" of ours and I'm really looking forward to release it.
Actually I havent got the slightest clue how Vietnam looks like, I have worked on these theaters one at the time to keep my sanity. For keeping that sanity I had to do Nevada release now without getting the new tiles in ("too" much work) or to wait Red Dog's airbase update. I'm planning on really kick ass on Vietnam now, time to give it the 2007 facelift and get the ball rolling to finally complete the PMC 2007 comeback theater development cycle, Vietnam is the last theater on the "product line" of ours and I'm really looking forward to release it.
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Good, then we can get back to the theater that really matters: Iran!
BTW, what is being done to overcome the installer issue with AF? I noticed you still have the words in the new post on Nevada that say basically if you are running just AF then you are out of luck...?
Why can't a workaround be made to get the installer to work with just AF installations? Perhaps incorporate the registry keys into the installer package for the old F4 so it inserts them if there aren't any? Or change the installer in some other way so it works properly with an AF only stall?
BTW, what is being done to overcome the installer issue with AF? I noticed you still have the words in the new post on Nevada that say basically if you are running just AF then you are out of luck...?
Why can't a workaround be made to get the installer to work with just AF installations? Perhaps incorporate the registry keys into the installer package for the old F4 so it inserts them if there aren't any? Or change the installer in some other way so it works properly with an AF only stall?
Last edited by Sherlock on 2007-06-06 21:17:34, edited 1 time in total.
Sherlock
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I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but the installer could check for the keys, and if they aren't there, it can create them only temporarily. It could delete them again once the SPTinstall was run.
So, while it would be adding the keys, it would also be restoring the system back to the way it was when it finished.
Or, the SPTIFix could be packaged with the installer so people could run it before running the installer.
Just some ideas.
So, while it would be adding the keys, it would also be restoring the system back to the way it was when it finished.
Or, the SPTIFix could be packaged with the installer so people could run it before running the installer.
Just some ideas.
Sic Semper tyrannosauro.
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Or ask Tom Waelti if we could use his HTTI.exe installer which DOES NOT HAVE THE ISSUE that SPTInstall.exe has...T_Rex wrote:I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but the installer could check for the keys, and if they aren't there, it can create them only temporarily. It could delete them again once the SPTinstall was run.
So, while it would be adding the keys, it would also be restoring the system back to the way it was when it finished.
Or, the SPTIFix could be packaged with the installer so people could run it before running the installer.
Just some ideas.
Sherlock
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I was just wondering what is the theater status beyond me, I mean as there has been no work done by me right now since the last releases, I havent received any files, artwork, nothing from anyone since then... so, is the scenario, future, plan, facts of life as so, that if I dont make things happen, nothing will happen?
I got no problem with that really, but would be kind of nice feeling to get some support from someone. Yes I know I've had great support from many people since the comeback, but I'm talking about AFTER the Vietnam v0.9 release, as I have not received any work since then. Have the trolls of frugal scared everyone away or what
So what happens next? I'll start a another dev cycle, post some annoying dev diarys and we wait if someone steps up and offers to help?
Anyways.
As I said, havent done any theater work since Vietnam v0.9, well ok the installer fix but thats not really a work. I was thinking that every day that goes by there is "broken installers" out there, we might as well create new installers with the new terrain rebuilder that allows people to install these theaters to all versions properly. Of course releasing for example new ODS with just this tiny fix but the download being so large, is kind of... lame sort of. Of course its quite essential fix to have it to be installed to those AF only guys. Dunno...
I got no problem with that really, but would be kind of nice feeling to get some support from someone. Yes I know I've had great support from many people since the comeback, but I'm talking about AFTER the Vietnam v0.9 release, as I have not received any work since then. Have the trolls of frugal scared everyone away or what
So what happens next? I'll start a another dev cycle, post some annoying dev diarys and we wait if someone steps up and offers to help?
Anyways.
As I said, havent done any theater work since Vietnam v0.9, well ok the installer fix but thats not really a work. I was thinking that every day that goes by there is "broken installers" out there, we might as well create new installers with the new terrain rebuilder that allows people to install these theaters to all versions properly. Of course releasing for example new ODS with just this tiny fix but the download being so large, is kind of... lame sort of. Of course its quite essential fix to have it to be installed to those AF only guys. Dunno...
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