Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Nevada theater

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Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 05:56:00

Ok, I may have a winner here.

This scenario is based upon the Red Flag 07-2. The OOB is based upon that available from Dreamlandresort.com.

Now, dreamland doesn't provide a "scenario", just OOB's. Therefore, I've been working on what seems to me to be a reasonable scenario for the given OOB. With the one I am using here, the best scenario seems to be a "Strategic Strike" type scenario. But before we go any further, let's look at BLUEFOR...

Nellis AFB:
1xF-22A

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1xTornado ECR (should be GR.4, but I was unclear if it was available in Tacedit)

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1xTornado IDS (should be GR.7, same deal as above. Both squadrons are German, so it probably is fine as is...)

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Payson Airbase
1xF-111F (from Australia)

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1xEA-6B (man this jet needs a new skin...)
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1xF-16CG
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1xF-117A
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Desert Rock Airbase

1xAV-8B
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1xA-10
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Hill AFB

1xB-2 (a rare daytime photo)
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1xE-3 AWACS
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1xKC-135 Refueler
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1xU-2
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1xC-130H Airlift
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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 06:01:25

OPFOR

China Lake
1xF-16CJ
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1xF-18C
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Yucca Valley
1xF-16C+
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1xF-18C
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Barstow Dagget
2xF-14A

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Van Nuys

1xC-130H


Mojave

1xE-8 JSTARS

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 06:15:44

The Scenario

Looking at the OOB, it is clear that we are testing the ability of the F-22 as an air superiority fighter for a variety of strike and interdiction aircraft. The F-22 should be dominating. BLUEFOR has one dedicated "fighter" against the OPFOR, any of which can fight equally well in the air-to-air role as strike. The addition of the B-2 and F-117 also suggests a 4th generation "strike" type scenario. This is the direction I will go with this iteration.

The goal, then, will be to reduce OPFOR force levels to some criteria that renders the OPFOR ineffective. This could be either ground forces, air forces, or both. The "force ratio" trigger could be the end game trigger for this type of scenario. A set of ratios can be provided which, if BLUEFOR accomplishes within a given time-frame (no less than 3 days, no more than 10), the scenario ends with a BLUEFOR win. If the time limit is reached without the victory ratio being reached, it is an OPFOR win. In my mind, I see 3-5 days as the 'sweet spot' for this scenario.

This scenario may work well from either side. In my mind, it would seem that the victory conditions of a ratio being met would work best for a player-BLUEFOR. The reason I say this is because the player understands the victory conditions and can task his forces as required to accomplish the objectives. The computer AI may not work towards a 'victory condition' trigger, but instead fight the strategic war from the Falcon 4 engine...going after factories and other objectives that will not fulfill victory conditions.

An OPFOR scenario, then, may be best constructed separately- perhaps with OPFOR on the striking role, and BLUEFOR tasked with air superiority. Having said that, the scenario is still 'fun' from OPFOR.

The trigger file for this scenario is still under construction.

My goal with this AAR is to investigate how a vigorous interdiction and air superiority campaign affects force levels. If I can achieve disparity in force levels through air only, then I can continue to tweak and program until achievable victory conditions are put into a trigger file and a working, competitive campaign is put together!

Initial force levels upon starting campaign:

Airforces- keep in mind this includes ALL aircraft
Blue (BLUEFOR): 175
Red (OPFOR): 100

Ground forces-
Blue: 11500
Red: 2500

Ratios (if I read the trigger tutorial correctly):
Blue Air: (blue*10)/(red): (175*10)/(100)= 17.5

Blue Ground: (blue*10)/(red): (11500*10)/2500= 46

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 06:32:03

Day 1

Mission 1: Nellis AFB. 2xF-22 BARCAP SW Nellis. A-A loadout. T/O: 0946

The mission starts aggressively with an inbound F-16 raid 20nm out from Nellis. I launch in MRM mode, master arm on. Nearly immediately I acquire a bogey, go SRM and get into a dogfight.

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Take note at how noticable the camo scheme is on the OPFOR F-16.

Unfortunately, I never do get a clean shot. My wingman gets an AIM-120 kill on one F-16, and in return gets himself shot down. SAMs get the remaining 3 F-16s.

I continue just a few miles into my onstation area beyond Nellis and happen upon 2xF-18. I take 3xAIM-120 against the Hornets before they can get a good lock on me for 2 kills.

Nearly immediately I get 2xF-14A on RWR and turn to engage. The F-22 is magical. The Tomcats simply can't hold a lock on my jet. Meanwhile, I get an AIM-120 off for a kill on one F-14.

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On debrief, I note that the Tomcats shot 5xAIM-54 (no hits) before WVR.

I go 1v1 with the remaining Tomcat. I'm carrying way too much speed. I get some quick views of the Tomcat, but even with AIM-9x's I can't get a tracking shot long enough to get a lock. Again, note how well that camo shows on the OPFOR jet.

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My sloppiness in the merge starts to cost me as the Tomcat pulls into me and eats up the angles. I see a flash as 1 AIM-9H misses me...it is HARD to get a heat lock on the F-22 when not in burner. However, I'm pulling hard now, starting to blackout and running out of options. The F-22 is a great jet, but if you blow enough opportunities, an AI Tomcat can beat you!

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(pulling Gs)
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Debrief shows in WVR I had 2xAIM-9H, 2xAIM-54 and 2xAIM-7F shot at me. The first sparrow hit. I eject and am rescued (as was my wingman).

Result: 3 A/A kills for me, 1 A/A kill for wingman, both shot down for RS.

I can't afford to trade jets with OPFOR in this scenario though...so this is actually an OPFOR victory IMO.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 07:28:28

Mission 2. Nellis. 2xF-22 BARCAP 80nm SW Nellis. A-A loadout. T/O: 1147.

We get about 40nm from Nellis before we start getting multiple bogeys in our oparea. I would guess, based upon JSTARS, that these are OPFOR BARCAP flights; they seemed to show a patrol-type movement on JSTARS.

I order wingman weapons free from spread and the fight's on!

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We engage 2xF-14A initially. Wing gets one BVR kill with a 120, as do I. I give the 'chutes a waggle as we blow by for the rest of the engagment.

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Immediately thereafter I pick up a flight of 4xF-16CJ. We shoot BVR for 2 kills by me, one by wingman. During the engagement with the F-16s, we get a flight of F-14s on RWR. We turn into them...wingman is hit early for a KIA. Rapidly, the fight moves WVR. I am carrying AIM-9X and get a snapshot on one F-14 for a kill on the merge.

(it's hard to pick out here, but I have two F-14s in the upper portion of the picture. My wingman is going down a the lower portion, dropping flares...)
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Snapshot kill
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I then get into it with the remaining F-14s. This part is interesting. I have a flight of OPFOR bugging me from behind. I'm in afterburner egressing. The F-22 accelerates like crazy, but the top end speed is relatively low. I'm doing maybe mach 1.14 on the deck; not exactly stellar speed. I call AWACS for a bogey check and the nearest bogeys are a flight of F-16s at 20nm behind me. I'm feeling pretty good about things until I check 6 and see a Tomcat sitting snuggly about 2 miles back in my exhaust. AWACS couldn't see this guy!

I pull hard and get into it. It gets foggy about now...alot of pulling. I get a snapshot off for a hit, but don't kill him. The fight degenerates from there.

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face shot

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Debrief has 1xAIM-7, 8xAIM-120 launched at me in the end game.

Result: 4 A-A kills for me, 2 A-A kills for wing, I am RS, wing in KIA. Still OPFOR win IMO- lost 4 jets in 4 hours of campaign time...

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-30 12:25:04

I love reading the campaign experiments and AAR from you Toonces, keep it up!

I'll promise to devote hour or two tonight to fiddle around with the Nevada ground texture tiles. If I just find a nice configuration setup for them in the auto tile tool and re-learn how to change palettes in PhotoShop, then we can have a tile patch for Nevada in few days time :)

Anyways, these campaign experiments and AAR's deserve a tile fix for Nevada, definitely.
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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by ccc » 2008-11-30 12:59:01

very interesting AARs..from reallife reports, raptor should be able to wipe out all air targets easily.. the exchange rate should be over 380:1 ?

Shouldn't the raptor fly high, fast, and stealthy, do BVR at its best, or sneak in 6 o'clock of target and shoot them down with aim9x or gun.. OR our database fail to model the super capabilities properly? :mrgreen:

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 22:46:40

Well, there's probably a bit of operator error with the employment of the F-22 in this scenario :lol:

But, that's the beauty of this scenario- you can boot up the F-22 or OPFOR and see for yourself how the super-F-22 fares in the modern battlefield. Having experimented with the OPFOR side a bit, the F-22 is tough to lock up with radar. And, in fact, it is very hard to get a consistent sidewinder lock as well.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 22:51:01

Mission 3. Nellis AFB, 2xF-22 BARCAP 40nm west of Nellis. A-A loadout. T/O: 1310.

This mission went much more how I anticipated F-22 missions to go. We locked up a flight of F-18s first; wing got a BVR kill on one. Then we got a flight of OPFOR F-16CJ. I got two BVR kills and one damage. Finally we were engaged by a flight of F-14s. I got a BVR kill on one, hit another with an AIM-9M; wingman finished him off.

Fox-2 on F-14.
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RTB. Result- me: 3 kills, wingman: 2 kills, both successfully RTB.
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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-11-30 23:02:24

Mission 4. I tried to get an F-111 mission or an A-10 mission, but I had alot of trouble getting a mission out of Payson and my A-10 missions all aborted. I have to investigate if this is a problem with the airforces I have in this scenario.

After dark, I managed to get an F-117 mission.

Payson Airfield. 4xF-117 OCA Strike against Independence AF; additional strike is 4xB-2 out of Hill AFB meeting us enroute. Load is 2xGBU. T/O: 2126.

It was a long flight at 36,000. The target was over 300nm away. I was hawking the fuel gauge- the F-117 doesn't carry alot of gas. I had in the back of my mind that I might have to 'learn' to refuel on the way home...but one thing at a time.

We caught up with the B-2s about 60nm out from the target. Ingress was relatively uneventful.

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I listened to the B-2s drop on range. They were engaged by the SA-10 site at the enemy field, but they took it right out. However, one B-2 was claimed by the SAM (that SA-10 is a real badass missile).

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I ordered my flight into trail and we dropped uneventfully for 100% hits.

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Egress was, at first, uneventful. But, just short of the FLOT we got picked up by a flight of F-14s. I was complacent and not checking with AWACS enough and by the time I got bugged by them, they were within 15nm and we were in the hurt locker.

I got a launch warning. I put the plane straight down and dove out. I'm not sure if I was hit by a missile, or if I overstressed the jet, but I lost my right engine in the dive. Not good (debrief had 5xAIM-54 launched at me).

I leveled out at 1000 and got vectors to a divert field. I debated ejecting, but my flight was being savaged and I really needed to save the jet if I could.

I made it to the field and made an emergency landing.

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What a disaster. Altogether we lost two B-2 and three F-117, hitting a field that isn't even a primary OPFOR field. Maybe I need to adjust the target priority in TacEdit so that, if the engine is going to schedule OCA Strikes, they're at least against the big-3 fields.

Finally, I checked the intel screen. As you can see, the ratio of force levels has changed dramatically. This could be a good trigger for ending the campaign.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by ccc » 2008-12-01 01:46:33

nice AAR, flying F117 with one single engine is tough..

Last time i flew a "damaged" F117 back to airbase is in [Microprose's F-117 nighthawk]..many years ago! i still remember that once you're damaged, that sim simulated a very unstable fight control, make your way home extremely exhausting.
Finally, I checked the intel screen. As you can see, the ratio of force levels has changed dramatically. This could be a good trigger for ending the campaign.
yes i think a air force ratio can be used for [end game event].

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-02 04:56:37

Mission 5. Nellis AFB. 2xF-22 BARCAP SW Nellis. A-A loadout. T/O: 0230.

I went with the ccc mode this time around. My wingman and I went override on the radar and took steers from AWACS to a flight of 6 or 8 Tomcats. At 20nm we lit em up and then salvo'd our AIM-120's for 3 kills and 1 damage apiece. Then we turned and successfully RTB'd.

Result: 6 A-A kills, no losses.

Sorry, no pictures, not much to see this time around.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-02 05:04:16

Mission 6. Nellis AFB. 4xF-22 OCA Strike against Barstow Dagget (a main F-14A base). Load is 2xGBU-35/JDAM and some missiles. T/O: Day 2, 0627.

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Ingress is uneventful with radar off. About 30nm from target we get bugged by some Tomcats and go radar on. The Tomcats were nose on, probably in burner and the fight develops quickly. Apparently I got a BVR kill on one Tomcat and a bonus kill on a C-130 that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We quickly get WVR. I tried to get a shot at the guy in my HUD, but my radar was locked on his buddy and I couldn't uncage and get this guy locked quickly enough.

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I'm not sure what happened to the other 3 Tomcats- it is possible another flight of F-22s hit them BVR during our engagement. Immediately after the fight, the SA-2 site I was over lit me up with 9xSA-2 launches. Yes, 9. Nothing like 9 launch warnings to get your head on a swivel.

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(dude, that pic is cool! I love RV man.)

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By now we're over the target. I get of 2 JDAMs for two kills, flight gets off one each for some kills. During evasion, I take a AAA hit that gives me an avionics fault.

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I milk the jet home for a successful emergency landing at Nellis.

Result: 2 A-A kills, 1 A-G kill, flight all successfully RTBs. Barstow Dagget inop.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-04 17:18:10

Mission 7. Nellis AFB. I decided to give the Tornado ECR a try. Tasking is 2xTornado ECR BARCAP 47nm west of Nellis.

Now, I had picked the Tornado ECR not really understanding what it does. The ECR model is a SEAD platform, not an A-A platform. This may explain why they're getting killed onsta. The max A-A loadout is 2xAIM-9, which is useless in a modern environment. So, for the next iteration of this scenario I need to replace them with the A-A version.

Anyway, I 'hijack' the BARCAP and load up some HARMs to do some SAM hunting.

T/O is about 0730.

It's a relatively uneventful flight. I drive the flight over to an SA-4(?) site and start shooting HARMs. I launch 4 for 3 kills on various radars. Both jets successfully RTB.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-04 17:25:01

Mission 8. Nellis AFB. I move to the other model of the Tornado- the Tornado IDS version. Tasking is an OCA Strike against (?) in conjunction with 4xAV-8B. Loadout is GBUs and Mk-83s. T/O is about 0930.

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Enroute is uneventful. The field is defended by SA-2s. Now, against the F-22 they were essentially worthless. How will they work against the Tornado?

The far airfield is the target.

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Shortly we pick up significant AAA and SA-2s. The RWR starts going crazy. In Falcon 5, we'll have a nice Tornado cockpit for this- for now I make do with the F-16...

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Unfortunately, I get a bad drop on my first pass and decide against better judgement to make a second pass. Bad move. I take several AAA hits- the first knocks out some avionics and an engine. The second kills my avionics and I have to eject. I did get out a call for the rescue chopper at least.

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Result- field shut down by the rest of my flight, but I had to eject and give the jet back to the taxpayers.

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Re: Toonces' Redflag1/Save2 AAR#2 (Strategic Strike Scenario)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-04 17:31:02

Force levels- we see a nice dip right in the middle there, but the reinforcements have brought levels to nearly the pre-start level. I'll have to look into how to modify reinforcements. Can we alter something so that the airplanes aren't resupplied so quickly?

What I'm looking for is a huge disparity between BLUEFOR and OPFOR. If the current trend continues, then this campaign is "working" as far as I'm concerned. A second victory condition could be if BLUEFOR and OPFOR levels become equal. Had OPFOR shot down a handful more planes at the end of day 1, that would be an OPFOR victory.

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Finally, ccc had asked or commented on the F-22 kill ratio. It's not 380:1 yet, but it's not horrible. Keep in mind I drove at least a few of those jets into the ground so it's probably not representative of how well the 2D or 3D AI would do.

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