Marine units and locations

[Guest]

Here's some Marine units and locations:
First, aviation units at Da Nang:
MAG-11 1st MAW
1. VMCJ-1(RF-4B phantoms and EA-6's)
2. VMFA-115 (F-4B's)
3. VMFA-232 (F-8 then F-4's)
4. VMFA-531 (F-4B)
5. VMFA-122 "
6. VMF(aw)-312 (F-8)
7. VMA(aw)-225 (A-6)
8. VMF(aw)-235 (F-8)
If i missed a squadron we can add it later.

Infantry: HQ CO.at Da Nang was the 1st Marine Division. Also 1st,2nd,3d battalions of the 1st Marine Division.
HQ Company and 3d Battalion, 9th Marines
1st Battalion,26th Marines

Artillery: 1st BN, 11th Marines
2d,BN,12th
1st 8" howitzer battery, 13th Marines

Times up got class, much more to write later on today.

[Guest]

brewskie,
maybe you could add their quantity figures.
say, the links i posted should provide LOTS info there!

[Guest]

Okay are those all single squadrons? I think Falcon 4 supports only four squadrons per airbase.

Would the EA-6B Prowler be ok in Vietnam theater?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Guest]

it should be EA6A, i think.
but use EA6B would be ok at present.
hey, USAF and Marine F4 on land bases..you got to create new object item, and insert new skins for both! say, use one of Dogfight F4E for Marine, the white team, painted in Marine scheme.

[Guest]

Well then go with 4 squadrons for now.
I would include the following more can always be added on later:
1. VMCJ-1 the Marine composite recon squadron had several <5 RF-4B's at any one time and about 4 EA-6A's but use the B.
2. VMFA-115 had approx. 11 F-4B's
3. VMF(AW)-232 had approx. 15 F-8E's.
4. VMA(AW)-242 had 12 A-6A's
You could add some F-4's to 232 since this happened. Redesignate to VMFA-232.

Troops at Da Nang:
HQ Force Logistics Command III MAF(amphibious force)
1st Tank Battalion
1st Recon BN
1st and 3d anti-tank BN
1st Amtrac BN
3d and 7th Engineer BN
1st,3d and 7th Motor transport-the motor pool
1st radio BN,5th and 7th Comm BN
1st MP BN

Next to Da Nang was Marble Mountain Air Facility(108 15'30 long X 16 01'30 lat) home of MAG-16.
1.HMM-262,HMM-263,HMM-364 CH-46's
2.HML-167, Huey's
3.HML-367, Cobra's
4.VMO-2, Cobra's and OV-10A Bronco's.
5.H&MS-16 CH-37 transition to HMH-463 CH-53
more later

[Guest]

Chu Lai Airfield-had a catapult runway.
Loc: 108 42'long X 15deg 25'lat

MAG-12
VMA-121,VMA-211,VMA-214,VMA-311 each had approx. 20 A-4 Skyhawks.

MAG-13
1. VMFA-314
2. VMFA-323
3. VMFA-542
each had approx. 15 F-4B's.

Ky Ha Airfield,was a mile north of Chu Lia Airfield on the finger-tip.
Loc: 108 41'30 long X 15 27'lat
MAG-36
H&MS-36
1.VMO-6 approx. 20 Huey's
2.HMM-165 CH-46
3.HMM-262 CH-46
4.HMM-363 UH-34

Infantry:
HQ Battalion, 1st Marine Division also assumed control of Chu Lai.
1. 1st and 3d BN's 5th Marines
2. 1st and 2d BN's 7th Marines
3. 3d recon BN

Artillery:
1. HQ battery, 11th Marines
2. 2d,3d, and 4th BN's of the 11th Marines
3. 3d 155mm, 3d 8" Howitzer battery 13th Mar

3d Amtrac BN
1st and 9th Engineer BN's

1st and 7th motor transport
7th communications BN

[Guest]

cool list, brewskie.

As for 4 sq-a-base, dunno if Hexers could improve this someday.
My 2c is, put two bases closely(or overlapping to some extent?), it will look like a bigger base with larger capacity, say 8 sq there should be close to the real thing.

[Guest]

I'm not sure about the 4 squadron per airbase limit, I just read it somewhere some time ago. Gotta test if we can have more squadrons than four

Anyway, good info. I'll try to update the campaign/te_new with these datas soon.

btw: added the carriergroup with EA-6B's flying ECM & SEAD strikes. pretty nice.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Guest]

Tip of the iceberg here. Marine color schemes are more grey-white, and USAF's 366 TFW was also at Da Nang with camo painted phantoms.

[brewskie]

Change at Chu Lai, it started with catapult runway, but later on had a 10,000 foot main runway was completed.

The Defense of Khe Sanh. On January 2,1968 five high-ranking NVA officers were killed outside the Khe Sanh combat base. Westmoreland anticipated an attack on Khe Sanh. He changed the base's purpose, to that of a killing zone.
A year before he had crushed one NVA division at Con Thien, where he learned that massive firepower is sometimes in itself sufficient, to force a besieging enemy to quit. By January 5, he conceived and planned Operation Niagara, and it worked.
Airpower broke the back of the enemy.
B-52s of Westmoreland's Operation Niagara unleashed 59,000 tons of ordnance. During the 10 weeks of seige, the Air Force, Navy and Marines dropped 103,500 tons of ordance in a five-square-mile area around Khe Sanh! There was an average of 320 tactical sorties delivering 1,282 tons per day. Westmoreland called it "one of the heaviest and most concentrated displays of firepower in the history of war."

The base at Khe Sanh was located on a flat plateau that had a 3,900 foot aluminum mat runway. The base was a mile long and a half mile wide. It could accomodate KC-130's,C-130's,C-7 Caribu, and C-123 transport aircraft. The 1st Battalion 9th Marines, and the 26th Marine Regiment that secured the base.
Before the seige it was reinforced by the 37th ARVN Ranger battalion. Total strength was approximatley 6000 troops.

On Jan. 21 1968 Khe Sanh was attacked by at least two divisions of NVA. They were the 325th and 304th. Estimates were about 20,000 enemy troops. They took the high ground around the base and controlled the road just south of the base, cutting it off.
One of the first NVA(mortar or 122mm rocket) rounds to hit Khe Sanh, made a direct hit on the main ammunition dump at the East end of the base, starting fires, which in turn, caused the detonation of tons of ammunition, C-4 plastic explosives, CS (tear gas) ammunition, and grenades. They pounded the runway so that it was out of commission. They moved in close to the base to avoid strikes by B-52's. Spearheading the attack was one of North Vietnam's most elite Divisions, 7th Battalion, 66th Regiment of the 304th NVA Division.
Heres a break down of the NVA unit organization:
1. Troops had either an SKS carbine, AK-47 assault rifle, light machine gun or rocket launcher. The SKS, AK and machine gun use the standard 7.62 cartridge.

2. They operated in squads, platoons, companies, battalions, regiments and divisions. They utilize the "triangular" concept with three squads per platoon, three platoons per company and so forth. (A squad is 10 men divided into three cells.)

3.A rifle company has from 60 to 130 men and includes three rifle platoons and a weapons platoon which has 60mm mortars, 57mm recoilless rifles and light machine guns.

4. A regiment (1400 to 2000 men) may have special units attached, such as signal, engineer, recon, and may carry heavy machine guns, 120mm mortars and 70mm or 75mm pack howitzers.

5. During the seige at Khe Sanh NVA troops used there typical tactic of getting as close as possible to the Marines inorder to prevent the use of supporting fire. That ment within 1 km of the base.

Offical records indicate that the B-52s had flown 2,548 sorties and dropped 59,542 tons of bombs...Bomber crews reported 1,382 secondary explosions and 108 secondary fires.
Westmoreland claimed the NVA lost between 10,000 and 15,000 men and hailed the confrontation as a great U.S. victory.

[ccc]

brewskie,
nice figures.
now how to translate the info into new f4 uni,? the quantities of infantry, firearms, etc in a operating unit?
how to decide the fighting power of a new VC/US ground unit? can we directly use the figures?

[brewskie]

Locations of targets in North Vietnam
Thai Nguyen industrial city
Thai Nguyen thermal power plant location to the west of route 3=21°40’N/105°44’E
Thai Nguyen steel mill=21°35’N/105°52’E
Thai Nguyen railroad yard=21°33’N/105°52’E
Northeast of Thai Nguyen is Tria Ca Sam Storage facility=21°36’N/105°57’E

Still working on the below
North of Hanoi
Kinh No Rail yard, storage facility, and fabrication plant all targets near the rail junction=21°09’N/105°51’E
Doc Noi railroad and storage
complex=21°08’N/105°52’E

List of targets to fill in:
Phuc Yen storage facility
Hoa lac airfield
Yen Vien rail yard
Hanoi pertroleum products storage area
Hanoi rail yard and repair shops at Gia Lam
Ai Mo warehouses
Bac Mai airfield and storage facility
Bac Giang rail yard
Lang Dang rail yard
Kep rail yard
Giap Nhi rail yard
van dien
Nguyen Khe storage complex
numerous sam sites,pol sites
Mi Le Ferry complex
Hau Hung Ferry
Bac Slang power plant
Lang Lau rail bridge



[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited January 04, 2001).]

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by brewskie:
Locations of targets in North Vietnam
Thai Nguyen industrial city
Thai Nguyen thermal power plant location to the west of route 3=21°40’N/105°44’E
Thai Nguyen steel mill=21°35’N/105°52’E
Thai Nguyen railroad yard=21°33’N/105°52’E
Northeast of Thai Nguyen is Tria Ca Sam Storage facility=21°36’N/105°57’E

These lat/long coordinates are great, I can place the objects very easily. Keep them coming as much as you can (if you cant find accurate coords, try to pick a point that I can use from the F4 existing objects).

I'm not sure in which area the post went, but there was these ground troop guestions about T-55/T-62 tanks, Artillery and such, could you verify how those fit to Vietnam?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[brewskie]

Yeah, i'll work on it. I'm trying to keep everything together, I hate having to look through threads,searching,what did i write,where?

Tanks used were T-54, T-34, PT-76(real old)
AAA towed Artillery 23mm,37mm,57mm,85mm,100mm,130mm
8000 trucks
SA-2 and SA-7's



[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited January 04, 2001).]

[Snake Man]

How about ground troops.

Tanks: T-55, T-62
Infantry: AK-47
Artillery: D-30, 2A65
Engineer: MDK-2-D
HQ: BMP-CMD
Mechanized: BTR-60

for starters, how those sound?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

my 2c, use T55 for all tanks. T62 could be too advanced for that war.

BTW, complete the list of unit composition. US army, USMC, SVA, NVA, and VC?

[Tazz]

Since I can't fit this massive book onto my scanner, I'll type some info from the pages of the chapter described below regarding NVA tanks.

From: "NAM, The Vietnam Experience 1965 - 1975" by Tim Page and John Pimlott.

Page 550: "NVA Tracks head south"

"By 1975 the NVA were driving south with large numbers of tanks. The T-54/T-55 was the best they had".

"The NVA first deployed tanks south of the DMZ in 1968 but it wasn't until the 1972 Easter Offensive that they used them in large numbers. They then began using armour to spearhead infantry attacks, and at the apex of these formations come T-54/T-55 main battle tanks (MBT's)."

"Compared with US Army and ARVN tank crews, NVA tankers were badly badly trained and their commanders poor at coordinating their armour with their infantry attacks and artillery. This meant that the T-54/T-55 was less effective than it might have been."

"The T-55 had an almost identical external appearance to the T-54 but, in addition to incorporating the infra-red sights and snorkeling equipment of the T-54A, it featured a more powerful engine and more space for main-gun ammunition.
Although usually recorded as T-54/T-55s, many of the MBTs in NVA service were infact Chinese T-59s, copies of the T-54A which differed only in minor details".

I can't fit this encyclopedia of the Vietnam war into my scanner but the T-54/T-55 is greenish with large yellow numbers and North Vietnamese markings on the side of the turret. (red/blue circle with yellow star).

[172ndhamm]

Taz,
that's one cool series of books eh? I have "RAIN OF FIRE, The Air War, 1969-73"

[Tazz]

There are more? Cool! I didn't know that! I picked this one up in one of those bargain bookstores, where they sell "left overs".. Years and years ago. I was actually going to buy some camera batteries or something and I was wondering how to drag the mutha home. Damn heavy book.

[ccc]

Honsetly, i think Snake Man need some figures like:
How many ground units?
what's their unit name or Number?
What's their compostion? how many soldier, tank, APC or artillery gun in a HQ unit, Armor unit(division? Regiment?), mechanized infantry unit etc.
And to translate real figures into F4 unit, with adequately modified firepower and survivablity.

[brewskie]

The NVA troops hand carried 122mm rockets to firing positions. A field launcher was used, but I would opt for using F4's bm-21. I'm about 99% confident they used D-20 and D-30's,S-60's, and Ak-47's for the infantry.

NVA/VC units are listed at the links below.
www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/Order%20of%20B ... a_oob1.htm

www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/vc_nva_oob.htm

www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/Order%20of%20B ... a_oob2.htm


[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited January 05, 2001).]

[ccc]

http://www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/vc_nva_ ... IV%20CORPS

ya, this one is good. I see their unit number and strength(soldiers). emm..how to translate 2000 soliders into f4 unit? platoon or squad? 2000 => 200 platoons?

[brewskie]

Some statistical info.
For 1966-1968 average number of daily fighter attack sorties into North Vietnam was approximately 350. Attack sorties in defending the south were 550, daily. Attack sorties made by helicopters were 2,500 per day! Now I know why they call it a helo war.
After the bombing of North Vietnam was halted in November 1968, the airwar shifted to Loas and the Ho Chi Minh Trail(200 attack sorties daily).

B-52 sorties were near 50 daily.

Annual Bomb Tonnage
Fighters:
south vietnam=480,000 tons
North vietnam=200,000
Loas trail=200,000

B-52's
South vietnam=500,000
trail=100,000 tons

[brewskie]

Seventh Airforce had the responsibility for air defense in South Vietnam. Headquarters Control center was located on Monkey mountain. Marines had 2 Light Anti-air missile battalions(LAMMS)in I Corps, 108 Hawk missles per battalion. The 1st LAAM battalion at Da Nang had 3 Hawk firing batteries with 36 Hawk missiles each and over 70 missiles in reserve.
Battery A was located on the airfield at Da Nang.
Battery B was on Hill 327 west of the airbase.
Battery C was on Monkey Mountain.

2nd LAAM battalion was at Chu Lai.
Battery A was on Ky Hoa island
Battery B was at Chu Lai airfield North.
Battery C was at Chu Lai airfield South.