Consolidating Issue /Conflict ?

[Peled]

I Got a Question Related to the Consolidating Issue For The Ground Troops .
In the YKW Campaign , all PaKs are working Fine ,Although....After about 4 Hrs in the First Day , I Got the Consolidating Status For the Ground Troops For Both Sides .
Here is a Pic Showing that all PaKs are working Fine , On " Major Offensive " Situation :


Any Suggestions To this Issue ?....IF It was Depending on me...Then....My Opinion is that evrything is Fine there...Just Need to wait....BUT---I Would like to read some thoughts here.....

Peled.

[Peled]

Just to make it clear ...I Was Running the Campaign under X64 Speed....I Know it should'nt be suggested ....
maybe that's WHY ?

Second : Sinai is Big....It's Just Sounds Logic to me.....since the Ground Troops need to meet each other on both Sides....


Third : The Consolidate situation i'm talking 'bout , is Just for the Ground Forces....Air Operations are always (mostly) on "Major Offensive " Situation and OCA Strikes are Generated ......

EDIT :

Basically when ground troops are in a consolidate , that's means : ground troops stopped moving....i guess...no closer enemy threats ...they'll not move....'till they'll meet the enemy.....although....Air operations are ok...no JUST barcaps There....I got a whole dynamic ATO...Strikes , Bombers tasking , BAI's , CAS's...all's there , For BOTH Sides ! ... I Don't think that's so Critic...Just Need to wait 'till The Egyptians Troops will Cross the Suez Canal to it Eastern Part.....maybe a Day....There are Egyptians Air mobile troops...Thanks to the Mi-6 Etc. They can Reach that Easily.....I Don't think it's Critic....Just Need to Continue Testing and See How Things Goes Later....

Peled.

[Bird-FF]

Your going to have to check the paths, links, and tiles.. Make sure all the roads are connected, and bridges work.. Make a TE, add ground forces, and give them a move command, and make sure they move..

[Peled]

Yeh...I Already checked it....All is Fine....
They'r Moving and Capturing as I Indicated Before...


Read My Edit on My Post above You...Just my Opinion Regarding a Possible Thought What I'll Do.....

[Bird-FF]

well, consolidating is when troops are combining to make the forces stronger. In falcon, when ground forces are consolidating for a very long time generally means, they cannot reach the objective the camp engine is telling them they should capture. Something might be confucing your troops. I have a feeling the answer lies in your L2..

[Peled]

quote:Originally posted by Bird-FF:
I have a feeling the answer lies in your L2..

Aha.....Ok...Will Check...

And ...Thanks For Pointing me to the Correct Meaning...So....IF I Will Just Locate Ground Troops Near The Cities they should Capture , Is That will Reduce maybe the Consolidating Issue?

Since Sinai is Spreading on a Large area...And they Need To cross some large way...maybe that is ?

[Bird-FF]

You may need to check your texture.bin with pathmaker as well. Objects and roads are tricky, and key object may not beable to be capture, due to the placement, and the surrounding tiles. This is from the pathmaker manual:

quote:
Paths
- Paths are used in Falcon 4 to draw roads and rivers on the Ground Radar display. There are 4 Path Types available: River, Road, Bridge and Railway. The <Theater>.thr’s Road along with Cover Type and Relief information are used to calculate the Cost to travel various routes from their current position to the Objective. When the units encounter a Bridge Path segment, a request to transmitted for the status of the bridge object over the river. The River Path delineates areas in the tile where the ground units cannot go without a means to cross the river. Although Railway type is checked in Falcon 4, I am not sure how ground units will use this type of path. From this discussion you can see how important it is to lay down good paths. Look at the original Korea tiles to get an idea of how the F4 developers defined paths. Be aware that not all of the F4 people did a good job. I have found many errors with the way paths and areas were defined.

Between the L2's road layout, and the paths, and the links.. Theres alot that could go wrong.. I'm having similar problems with nevada, when I get into the later days of the war. Seems ground unit will only go so far, then they stop, and sit forever. So, I'm about to redo all the paths, and hand check all the roads.. Removing bridges help to, since a bridge object can break a campaign, this also helps with multiplayer online..

quote:
Areas
- Areas are used in Falcon 4 to determine the cost for ground units to follow a path through the Area type defined in a tile. There are 10 Area Types available: Water, Swamp, Plains, Brush, Thin Forest, Thick Forest, Rocky, Urban, Runway and Station. The defined Areas with Cover Type are used to calculate the Cost to travel various routes from their current position to the Objective. When there are high cost areas between the ground unit and its objective, the unit will try to take a lower cost route. Thus, high-cost areas in the tile might block the route through an area they should not travel, such as ocean, lakes, rocky areas or thick forest. The use of Runway and Station types is unknown. Station type sounds like a railway station area. Runway type may be for airbases, but it is not used in the original tile’s areas. From this discussion you can see how important it is to lay down good areas. Look at the original Korea tiles to get an idea of how the F4 developers defined paths. Be aware that not all of the F4 people did a good job. I have found many errors with the way paths and areas were defined.

This also can relate to the problem, and should be checked..

[ccc]

wow you really dig deep into the manual

[Bird-FF]

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
wow you really dig deep into the manual

.. Well, not too many of the theater tools actually have a manual, so when one does, I like to study it ..

although, I still don't understand cate..

[Peled]

Aha....Thanks Jay...it might be....
I Never used Pathmaker Tool....Probably , it's time to see what's all about...
Very interesting Tool....

Now...That's NOT a Finished Campaign.
I Just want to be sure how it process , so...i located the ground troops with TCL ,I DIDN'T Located them all by the ORB ...Yet...I Mean ...They all are there , But Still Not accurated Located by the RL War....That's something I Would like to do ....
So...Let me finish that...then , i'll check everything , before i'll go to the L2....
Maybe that's a Supply or Force matter.

I'm still NOT Agree as For Reducing Bridges...You see...IF The Bridges Reduced...The Egyptian Troops in the West Part of the Suez Cannal could'nt move to the Eastern Part , Unless Air Mobile Operations will let them do that....
Bridges Got a First IF Not a Second Important Point in The Ykw Campaign.....

Is that Procedure with the L2 , Need to be Done seperately For Each Campaign ? ? ?

The SHW Campaign seems To work Fine without any Consolidating Hrs.....So....?
Is that concern to each Campaign ?...strange...
To say the Truth....I see some "Holds" in the YKW Campaign Even when Running in Acceleration of X64...So....There might be something there to check....

Anyway....I Will Finish it with all ORB For the Ground Troops...Probably Today...and Then I'll Report.....

There's a lot of things to be checked there , before......

Thanks For reminding me the PathMaker Tool .


Peled.

[Peled]

WHERE Can i get a Detailed Readme how to Use the PathMaker Tool ?

All what i got is this page :
http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/docs/auto-utils.php

But , it doesn't explain how to use it....


EDIT : Never mind , I Got It....

[Bird-FF]

When you remove bridges, you have to spilt the river, and place a normal road tile in place of the road/river tile (very simple in terrainview). It will remove the need for a bridge completely, and keep the paths open, although some argue this takes away from realism. AAt that point you just remove all the bridge objects from tacedit.. No bridges will make your camps run very smooth, and make your theater better for online. Although, all the other problems would need to be fix first to see the improvement..

Most online squads will patch camps in this way so they can use it.. Something about CTD's related to bridges, and online.. It f)(*'s up the server..

I say leave them out, since of the online problems, and the fact that the ATO hates to have a functioning bridge, and will make all your attack flights go after them. This will slow the ground war, since when you take out a bridge b/c of the enemy, your forces can't use it either..

[Peled]

Thanks Jay for yor Suggest .

Yeh.....I Know what Ya mean.....I Was flying Online with a Squad. For a short time... We Never thought to Remove Bridges .
Bridges maybe help getting a Higher FPS For Online Flights....But----my thought , as an Israeli that knows our Historical Wars... One thing i Know...Bridges were Taken the Most Important Factory in YKW and SDW Wars !
Mitla Pass , Harbani Bridge Etc. ....
Just My thought....Take it as a Vote For Israelis Falconners...You'll Get 0 Counts In Removing Briges....

Ok...First I need to solve the exsisting Bugs .

It Looks Like My Thought Helped...I Just Located Air Mobile A/C's & Hellos...So, The Egyptian Forces Could Cross the Suez Cannal Faster :



Then...I Got the "Major Offensive " For the Rest Of the Day :



Jeez....I Just Almost Pissed Of...

I Got Now another Issue : There are Few Moments in the Campaign That The Camp Engine
Is Like Freezing The Situation For Few Seconds....Even In acceleration Of X64...Then it Goes again Running....

I Think it's NOT Concern to Any Campaign Mod...I Just Press Cntrl/Alt /Del and Got myself Out Of Sim....CTD Report Indicated Something Related the BMS Exe.....

[Peled]

When I was Taking These Pics Today , I Just Thought To My Self :
Boy......
Can't I Just Get a Nice Campaign WithOut any Issues ? ? ? :

[Bird-FF]

Okay, if you going to leave the bridges (these where removed in nevada), you'll have to do more work. You will have to check every bridge object's placement vs Terrain views tiles, if bridges are not in the correct place, it will break your paths, and you will have problems, also you may need to make sure they are all (Normal, or Repaired) in tacedit, since distroyed bridges will do the same.

Looks like your trucking along well. The things we discussed will help all situations that your having, it's just time to do it all. If your going to replace the ground textures, hold off on pathmaker, since you'll just have to redo all the work for the new tiles.

I guess at this point, it's time to dig into the L2, and the tiles. After that, go back into the camps, and make adjustments to suit the new terrain.

I can help out in anyway possible with the terrain... Just ask..

[Peled]

quote:Originally posted by Bird-FF:
I can help out in anyway possible with the terrain... Just ask..

OK Jay , I will write to myself all your Suggestions , Thanks .

As for Terrain work.....well....I Didn't want to budder you , since I Know You'r working on your Own Project

Any kind of help on that , will be Thanked ,
...Tony Got the Ideas for the Terrain Stuff...

Btw : Reference - "Repaired" or "Normal" , For the Bridges.....Did You meant , Every Bridge should be Flagged as Repaired or Normal ?...I Just thought all Bridges should be In a Repaired....So..Ground Troops of both sides could use them Anytime they need to....

[ranger822]

I guess I feel the need to put my 2Cents worth, for what they are worth.

1. Removing bridges is problaby not a good idea - - from a work perspective, unless you have a special method, you are looking at thousands of bridges . . . .now for the most part these bridges should be just fine. When Dudi created Israeli Theater - there was no pathmaker - - we all used the default paths which were aligned with the tiles - - - basically every road, rivers etc enters and exists at the same predictable locations on the tile - -center top bottom, left, right, etc. This is also why if you play campaign you can see troops and armor column OFF the ROADs and on the sides of hills, IF the default path is used in the texture.bin but the tile has the graphic for the road located elsewhere. Try it and and see what I mean. The graphic image on tile doesn't mean squat . . .it is the what the bin file has recorded. . . unless someone modified the bin file after Dudi - it should be default paths. This also means that your transition tiles need to adhere to default paths unless you plan to totally rebuild the terrain . . . I think it may be possible to just use the terrain Dudi created, swap out different tile - - you can even make roads and rivers deviate from the original paths AS LONG AS they START and END at the default point and the edge of the tile. This should avoid a broken line via texture.bin.

2. Changing terrain tiles - is mute is the file names are the same - - so the bin doesn't need to be updated. If you follow convention - - I think as long as all your tiles are default paths and you name your tiles in Falcon style . . .then paths should be linked. . . It shouldn't be a big deal to edit the paths for a tile anyway and if you are going to the trouble to make say - 20 sets of transition tiles that is only 340 tiles that seems reasonable. You still need to decide what terrain type you want your new tiles to fall under . . .for movement costs. . . but again that is minor stuff in the big picture of just getting something to look good and work without CTD.

3. I have to agree with Eyran, bridges are a necessary evil that I think we should try to make work . . . the more Eyran studies campaign creation the we seem to notice that the Falcon campaign engine requires some realistic events to occur - -it is us that just don't understand it and how to make it work properly. What we really lack here is a better understanding of the interrelationship of how units work together and depend on each other for progression of the simultion. I think it does a disservice and not given Eyran fair chance and credit if he just consigned the campaign to dumbing down just so on-line flight will work . . . lets give it a good old Yankee effort before we give up and just try to make it work any way we can.

[Bird-FF]

I understand where your comming from, I remember working on the israeli theater, bridges where definately a problem, back then, since alot of the placement of them is off. It's going to be a lot of work, and don't rule out path errors, they could have been there since dudi make the theater. There are a ton of broken roads.

As far as online, maybe your right, and israel will not really be an online campaign. I think nevada will be huge online, since the squads will want to use it for training.

Apples and Oranges..

As far as terrain, playing around with the tiles I made, inspires me to start making a completely new tileset for nevada. I will have to ask for your help when it come to tiling it, since I cannot understand the cate manual (I must be retarded, coz I just don't get it).. You guys inturn can have access to the tile package, and I'll try to make a couple of extra sets just for israel.

Ripsaw said he would apply his airbase tiles to the tilesets I create for nevada..

I just need to figure out how many transitions I need to make..

I would really like to do 1 or 2 tiles sets (16 tiles per set) for evey 1000 feet of elevation. The high point of nevada is 14,000 low point is -0.. (death valley) Thats 14 to 28 transitions about 224 to 448 tiles. Plus all the farms roads coasts rivers and such for each level. About 1792 tiles... Is that to many?.. It's going to take a while.

[Peled]

quote:Originally posted by Peled:
I Got Now another Issue : There are Few Moments in the Campaign That The Camp Engine
Is Like Freezing The Situation For Few Seconds....Even In acceleration Of X64...Then it Goes again Running....

Wew.....I'm Happy to Confirm that Everything Is Solved Now !
Hiya !
The YKW Is Running Fine without any Bugs /Issues !
No CTD's At this Moment , No Freezing In the Campaign Even in Acceleration x64...
All is Fine Now!

'Will Report later What Had Been Done to Solve the Issues , Not too much Actually...


EDIT: Check the F4ITDG Board .

[Closter]

Bump! I think this is relevant to Taiwan theater and others...

Will Report later What Had Been Done to Solve the Issues , Not too much Actually... Smile

EDIT: Check the F4ITDG Board Wink .

What is this misterious solution? I cannot check the F4ITDG Board..

[Sherlock]

EDIT: Check the F4ITDG Board .

What is the link to the F4ITDG board? (and how do you read Hebrew? j/k)


EDIT: I found it, but you can't read the forums unless you are registered, and new registrations have been forbidden. doh!

Site: http://f4itdg.aceboard.com/#